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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 23280
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote: | | Purple-Pride07 wrote: | | BLick12 wrote: | | You mean Schenn not Voracek but yeah we got some nice prospects but a lot of work to do. Hopefully it all pans out. |
I think he meant Voracek, in addition to Schenn. |
si senor |
Me no read good.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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flyers0909
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 5731
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Damnit, I have to find a new sig and new sig quote now. 
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eagles26
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 2145
Location: The Happiest of all Valleys
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still dumbfounded. Someone mentioned in the other thread that this is Holmgren (and/or Snider) pleasing/choosing Pronger. They'd better win a cup while he's still here, though I don't really think they will. That dude just rubs me the wrong way, and coming here and bullying his way to shaking up the franchise doesn't help.
I wish we got more LA games out here, though.
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eagles26
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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mm6492
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 22291
Location: The Valley of Happiness
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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“It wasn’t something done lightly. It started with the rumors with Carter and his situation in playing him out of position. He’s a natural center. We had four centers and we needed wingers …
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flyers0909
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 5731
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Eklund wrote: | | For now. Versteeg is off the table. |
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 23280
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mm6492 wrote: |
“It wasn’t something done lightly. It started with the rumors with Carter and his situation in playing him out of position. He’s a natural center. We had four centers and we needed wingers …
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Yeah seems like a cheap cop-out for him to say that. Carter still scored 36 goals this year.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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mm6492
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 22291
Location: The Valley of Happiness
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| BLick12 wrote: | | mm6492 wrote: |
“It wasn’t something done lightly. It started with the rumors with Carter and his situation in playing him out of position. He’s a natural center. We had four centers and we needed wingers …
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Yeah seems like a cheap cop-out for him to say that. Carter still scored 36 goals this year. |
not a fan of snider in that article. he seems to put most of it on homers shoulders when i feel eh was pushing most of it.
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Purple-Pride07
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 17173
Location: Right Behind You
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BLick12 wrote: | | Oh and I'm playing around with cap geek and I truly don't see what these trades did for us. Both Voracek and Simmonds are RFA. I assume they will both command around $2-2.5M. This leaves us with only $2.3 with Leino still to be resigned. This is incredibly stupid to me, hopefully I'm not seeing something here. |
Voracek may get into the $2.7 to as high as $3M in my opinion. Anything less would be a bargain for a pretty good prospect. I'd be surprised if Wayne Simmonds got much less than $2.2M-$2.5M They're both $2+M type guys at this point in time.
The trades more or less allowed you to sign Bryzgalov and also have a bit of flexibility. But as I said yesterday, if the trade was done simply to allow the team to sign Bryzgalov, I wouldn't be happy as a Flyer fan. If there were locker room or drinking issues with Richards/Carter than I really don't understand why Holmgren was overly emotional about it.. despite whatever generic justification. Even Laviolette said there wasn't a riff between him and Richards, I wouldn't imagine he'd have some reason to lie about it either.
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eagles26
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 2145
Location: The Happiest of all Valleys
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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Richards on Preston and Steve
Poor guy found out through text message
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BirdsFan06050
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 18083
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Purple-Pride07 wrote: | | BLick12 wrote: | | Oh and I'm playing around with cap geek and I truly don't see what these trades did for us. Both Voracek and Simmonds are RFA. I assume they will both command around $2-2.5M. This leaves us with only $2.3 with Leino still to be resigned. This is incredibly stupid to me, hopefully I'm not seeing something here. |
Voracek may get into the $2.7 to as high as $3M in my opinion. Anything less would be a bargain for a pretty good prospect. I'd be surprised if Wayne Simmonds got much less than $2.2M-$2.5M They're both $2+M type guys at this point in time.
The trades more or less allowed you to sign Bryzgalov and also have a bit of flexibility. But as I said yesterday, if the trade was done simply to allow the team to sign Bryzgalov, I wouldn't be happy as a Flyer fan. If there were locker room or drinking issues with Richards/Carter than I really don't understand why Holmgren was overly emotional about it.. despite whatever generic justification. Even Laviolette said there wasn't a riff between him and Richards, I wouldn't imagine he'd have some reason to lie about it either. |
No, they weren't. Neither of these players had to be traded to fit Bryzgalov under the cap, and both of the deals were hockey decisions. I can't stress this enough.
It was an emotional moment for Holmgren because he has essentially seen both players mature and develop over the past six seasons, and was the guy responsible for drafting them both in the first place. They also helped lead us to the Stanley Cup Finals just a year ago, so they were successful players during their tenure with the Flyers as well.
Everybody needs to quit judging these moves until we see the finished product, and that won't be until after free agency. Voracek and Simmonds will total up to about $4 million from all reports and indications, so I don't know where you're getting those numbers anyways. It's poor speculation on your part, and has no backing whatsoever. This is a team that's still built to win now, and I expect the Flyers to continue to be aggressive this off-season. If they opt not to re-sign Leino or decide to trade Versteeg today, then they can offer Brad Richards as much money as anybody in a front-loaded deal that would make him a Flyer for life. We have a lot of flexibility and options to explore.
At the end of the day, yesterday was a bittersweet day. I'm excited about the talent we've acquired, and the rest of you would be wise to wait this one out and see what else the front office has in store for the club.
Go Flyers
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Purple-Pride07
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 17173
Location: Right Behind You
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| BirdsFan06050 wrote: | | No, they weren't. Neither of these players had to be traded to fit Bryzgalov under the cap, and both of the deals were hockey decisions. I can't stress this enough. |
You can repeat it until you're effectively blue in the face, but the truth of the situation was if one wasn't moved the team would have been strapped for wiggle room amongst the cap after signing Bryzgalov. In addition to that there is work to be done in retaining free agents. After signing Bryzgalov the team would have been hard pressed to make any other additions to the team - it's the price you pay when trying to balance your team. The term "hockey decision" is nothing more than a generic justification. As I said however, I don't mind the move to acquire a true #1 goaltender for the coming year - simply put.
| BirdsFan06050 wrote: | | It was an emotional moment for Holmgren because he has essentially seen both players mature and develop over the past six seasons, and was the guy responsible for drafting them both in the first place. They also helped lead us to the Stanley Cup Finals just a year ago, so they were successful players during their tenure with the Flyers as well. |
It's quite subjective to assume someone specifically was, or was not responsible for drafting someone - much less an Assistant-GM. More generic justification, might I add. Had he cared all that much, you don't make those deals without your hand being forced if you have some sort of emotional attachment to the players. Not buying.
| BirdsFan06050 wrote: | | Everybody needs to quit judging these moves until we see the finished product, and that won't be until after free agency. Voracek and Simmonds will total up to about $4 million from all reports and indications, so I don't know where you're getting those numbers anyways. It's poor speculation on your part, and has no backing whatsoever. This is a team that's still built to win now, and I expect the Flyers to continue to be aggressive this off-season. If they opt not to re-sign Leino or decide to trade Versteeg today, then they can offer Brad Richards as much money as anybody in a front-loaded deal that would make him a Flyer for life. We have a lot of flexibility and options to explore. |
You're missing the point here. Every fabric of the moves that were made are questionable to the notion that the team truly is "win now" when you almost instantaneously decide to move the two cornerstone players of your organization. We're not talking arguably - Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were face #1 and #2 of the organization. You move them out, so goes a vast chunk of the identity of the team. lol.. My friend there is absolutely no such thing as poor speculation. Much less when you have a firm understanding of the players you are discussing. If you're basing all of your opinions of your team purely on team reports than the very thought that you'd be dealing Versteeg, opting not to re-sign Leino, or even make another splash with potentially signing Brad Richards would all be laughable after thoughts given there has been conflicting reports on all three potential transactions. What's clear in this rush of movement is that the organization preferred the financial flexibility over the team's top two players. That's not speculation, it's common sense.
| BirdsFan06050 wrote: | | At the end of the day, yesterday was a bittersweet day. I'm excited about the talent we've acquired, and the rest of you would be wise to wait this one out and see what else the front office has in store for the club. |
You would be wise to allow others to exercise their right of opinion. In any case, it's a counter-productive move to do what the Flyers did yesterday. Did they still get top shelf compensation and good return for their assets? Abso-freakin-loutely - and if I'm a Flyer fan, you trust management. There's nothing else you can do. But to condemn anybody for being upset about a pretty unprecedented move for modern day off-season trades isn't something I feel anybody has the right to do.
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Purple-Pride07
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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Location: Right Behind You
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think as Flyer fans what really, really hurts a lot of you guys is that Richards is now going to LA where he will no longer be the #1 center, no longer be the captain, and no longer be the face of the organization he plays for.
It's almost as if above all else, you're seeing your guy be undervalued and under-appreciated by another organization that has no real affinity for him like you do. I know even for me as an objective Maple Leafs fan, that's what would really eat me up inside personally. Plus, you always want to see a good player remain on your team.
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BirdsFan06050
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 18083
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You can repeat it until you're effectively blue in the face, but the truth of the situation was if one wasn't moved the team would have been strapped for wiggle room amongst the cap after signing Bryzgalov. In addition to that there is work to be done in retaining free agents. After signing Bryzgalov the team would have been hard pressed to make any other additions to the team - it's the price you pay when trying to balance your team. The term "hockey decision" is nothing more than a generic justification. As I said however, I don't mind the move to acquire a true #1 goaltender for the coming year - simply put. |
We didn't need any other additions had they kept both Carter and Richards on the team. They have a few small role players who are RFA's that they would've needed to re-sign, and still do, but that was pretty much it. Most people thought the roster was set except for one trade that would've created just enough room to squeeze Bryzgalov under the cap, preferably Versteeg or Hartnell being the player out the door. The fact of the matter is that could've been done, so stop saying that these moves were made to simply sign a goalie. That's a blatantly false and quite frankly lazy answer.
| Quote: | | You're missing the point here. Every fabric of the moves that were made are questionable to the notion that the team truly is "win now" when you almost instantaneously decide to move the two cornerstone players of your organization. We're not talking arguably - Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were face #1 and #2 of the organization. You move them out, so goes a vast chunk of the identity of the team. lol.. My friend there is absolutely no such thing as poor speculation. Much less when you have a firm understanding of the players you are discussing. If you're basing all of your opinions of your team purely on team reports than the very thought that you'd be dealing Versteeg, opting not to re-sign Leino, or even make another splash with potentially signing Brad Richards would all be laughable after thoughts given there has been conflicting reports on all three potential transactions. What's clear in this rush of movement is that the organization preferred the financial flexibility over the team's top two players. That's not speculation, it's common sense. |
That's an debatable claim. It's easy to sit here and say those two guys were the faces of the team, but I don't buy that. Richards was without a doubt a franchise-type player and the captain of the team, but I'm not sure if I'd call Carter just that. Briere, Giroux, JVR, Pronger, and Timonen were just as much, if not more, important to this club in the eyes of the front office and fans. People always wanted to label Carter as that kind of guy because he was drafted during the same year as Richards, but its not as if he was this team's second best player or anything like that.
There is such a thing as poor speculation. You randomly threw out those numbers without any basis or backing. All early reports are indicating that Simmonds should sign for a bit less than $2 million per season, and that Voracek will get something slightly above that number. That was my point.
Where are those conflicting reports regarding not signing Richards or trading Versteeg? Those are coming from the mouths of the front office or owner, which both already stated that Carter and Richards were essentially untouchable just a week ago. Media outlets and personal inside knowledge predicted those very moves that both occurred yesterday, and I'm simply speculating based on what I keep hearing from good sources.
| Quote: | | You would be wise to allow others to exercise their right of opinion. In any case, it's a counter-productive move to do what the Flyers did yesterday. Did they still get top shelf compensation and good return for their assets? Abso-freakin-loutely - and if I'm a Flyer fan, you trust management. There's nothing else you can do. But to condemn anybody for being upset about a pretty unprecedented move for modern day off-season trades isn't something I feel anybody has the right to do. |
Where am I saying to anybody that they can't have their own opinion? All I'm saying is keep an open mind, and realize that the club is far from done.
You keep twisting my words as if they are imperative commands. They're not.
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mm6492
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