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Should Arsene Wenger be praised?
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ukjets21


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 18353
Location: Newcastle, from Carlisle
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

kempus wrote:
ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:
kempus wrote:
In this case you have written it just for dramatic effect. Nobody thought Arsenal would get relegated, I have no idea where you got that idea from.

Relegated and comments that Arsene would get sacked. Also, that this team would be in a tough fight.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12166370#12166370

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12119196#12119196

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12036968#12036968

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12118837#12118837

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=12119189#12119189

If this isn't enough, than oh well.


Not one person said anything about relgation there, the most dramatic people were saying Arsenal will struggle to get in the Champions League. That is a VERY big difference from what you're claiming.


Yeah, there was one joke post about relegation and a bunch saying that Wenger might be leaving at the end of the year and that they'd struggle to make the Champions League. No one thought Arsenal were in real danger of being relegated
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RoxSox2004


Joined: 17 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The relegation talk was just panic talk after the United game. No one was remotely serious about it. Even if we hadn't signed Arteta and Mertesacker, this team is still talented enough to finish in the top half, at least.
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Davey


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoxSox2004 wrote:
Quote:
Juan Mata, for example, was a very realistic buy last summer, but Arsene didn't fight enough. You can buy players of quality without throwing a blank check to the club.


It wasn't a case of not fighting enough. We were prepared to spend 24m on Mata. But we were offering him ~70k per week. Chelsea ended up paying him close to 200k. We just can't contend with that.


Good post, wages always go unmentioned in terms of transfer investment when it's key. For example if Mata signs a five year deal, the net investment for Chelsea is close to 76m while if Mata signed a five year deal with Arsenal for 70k wages the net investment would be just over 42m. Huge difference in cash spending and transfer fees only tell half the story.
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ElReyDeLosReyes


Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Davey wrote:
RoxSox2004 wrote:
Quote:
Juan Mata, for example, was a very realistic buy last summer, but Arsene didn't fight enough. You can buy players of quality without throwing a blank check to the club.


It wasn't a case of not fighting enough. We were prepared to spend 24m on Mata. But we were offering him ~70k per week. Chelsea ended up paying him close to 200k. We just can't contend with that.


Good post, wages always go unmentioned in terms of transfer investment when it's key. For example if Mata signs a five year deal, the net investment for Chelsea is close to 76m while if Mata signed a five year deal with Arsenal for 70k wages the net investment would be just over 42m. Huge difference in cash spending and transfer fees only tell half the story.


Arsenal has wages issues. Denilson for example earns wages which never should of gotten in the first place:

Quote:
However, due to Wenger’s rigid wage structure, Denilson has enjoyed wages well above what he is worth for some time now. Arsenal’s wage structure prevents players receiving very high wages but also stops them getting low wages – most players receive salaries that are quite similar. This means Arsenal pays out a lot in wages. Arsenal’s wage bill was £111 million in 2009/10, which put us fifth in the Premier League:

Top Premier League wage bills 2009/10 (2008/09 wage bills in brackets):

Chelsea – £174m (£167m)
Man City – £133m (£83m)
Man Utd – £132m (£123m)
Liverpool – £121m (£107m)
Arsenal – £111m (£104m)

Source: Deloitte


http://straightalkingooners.com/bye-bye-denilson-for-now/4176/

If they fixed a couple of things up, they would be able to pay top wages to someone who actually deserves it.
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The Wyzzinator


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ our wage system is basically socialism. Sucks knowing guys like Almunia, Squillaci, Denilson, Diaby (out again long-term) are all making 60k per week because they are "established first team players"
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ElReyDeLosReyes


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wyzzinator wrote:
^ our wage system is basically socialism. Sucks knowing guys like Almunia, Squillaci, Denilson, Diaby (out again long-term) are all making 60k per week because they are "established first team players"

That's 240k per week he could be giving to a very top player. Yes, the actually transfer would be pricy for a top player, but he can pay them if he fix the wage structure.
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RoxSox2004


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:
The Wyzzinator wrote:
^ our wage system is basically socialism. Sucks knowing guys like Almunia, Squillaci, Denilson, Diaby (out again long-term) are all making 60k per week because they are "established first team players"

That's 240k per week he could be giving to a very top player. Yes, the actually transfer would be pricy for a top player, but he can pay them if he fix the wage structure.


Wenger does not have that kind of control. He can't just release them, that would be too expensive. And the board has consistently resisted increasing the wage scale. Wenger is just stuck at the moment, unless the board frees up more money (likely, given how much we need quality).
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoxSox2004 wrote:
ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:
The Wyzzinator wrote:
^ our wage system is basically socialism. Sucks knowing guys like Almunia, Squillaci, Denilson, Diaby (out again long-term) are all making 60k per week because they are "established first team players"

That's 240k per week he could be giving to a very top player. Yes, the actually transfer would be pricy for a top player, but he can pay them if he fix the wage structure.


Wenger does not have that kind of control. He can't just release them, that would be too expensive. And the board has consistently resisted increasing the wage scale. Wenger is just stuck at the moment, unless the board frees up more money (likely, given how much we need quality).


Possibly not this summer unless we manage to sell some as well (and then it really isn't technically "freeing up more money" in the sense we'd be wanting to see), but once the loan on Emirates is paid off, and that additional cashflow from the gates is going into the club coffer rather than to the bank to pay off the loan, then yes, that seems a more likely time. Which is why I think Wyzz's projection of 2 years is fairly astute.
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RoxSox2004


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's a question of the money as much as it is a question of the right players being available. Wenger was willing to spend 35m on Gotze, but he's not going to overspend for depth. He wants good young talent, given that even with significant investment, we're a couple years away from contention.

I think a lot of who we go after depends on how Wilshere comes back from injury. If he returns and is dropping 20 yard ball on Gervinho's boots like he was in preseason, we'll be fine. But if he struggles (maybe even as much as Ramsey), we'll need to invest.
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PurpleLion


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: Should Arsene Wenger be praised? Reply with quote

ukjets21 wrote:
ElReyDeLosReyes wrote:
Now, I know that there is still another half to the English Premier League, but for a team many thought were going to get relegated in the summer and during the beginning of the season. To be 4th in the table currently is impressive.
I'm sorry but no one thought Arsenal were getting relegated, especially in the summer. Just as no one really thought Liverpool were getting relegated the season before, the lowest expectation I had of Arsenal was 6th, which with the constant threat of a RVP injury is still very possible. Now Wenger deserves praise as one of the great managers, but it's not like he took a promoted club to 4th place, he kept a perennial Champions League team in those spots and surviving the loss of Fabregas and Nasri. And Arsenal don't buy top talent because they don't pay the wages other clubs do, that's to blame not Wenger.
Well said on all fronts, hope Van Persie stays healthy, also Arsenal don't buy top players because their commercial revenue isn't that great by comparison for a club of their stature.
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