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Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 19185
Location: Carolina Kiltman on the Sig
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| NoHypeNeeded wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Art_Vandalay wrote: | | RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Going to be fun when Vick put up great stats, and we become NFC East champs. Yeah I'm saying it right now, we will win the East in 12, and Vick will play great. |
The Giants are better than us at every unit except maybe CB and their confidence is at an all time high. I don't see any way we win the division over them. I don't think too highly of the Skins and Cowboys though. Best case scenario, we somehow manage a wildcard. But since my recent transition to the dark side, Im not counting on it. |
The Giants aren't any more talented than us. The numbers show we had a better offense and defense. So, what does that mean? They played slightly better as a team and barely edged their way into the playoffs. They got hot at the right time. We got hot a little too late. Them's the breaks. But, you could see the team put it together at the end. With a full offseason to prepare and Andy on the hot seat, I think we'll see a much better year from the Iggs this upcoming season. |
Really.. if the Giants lose to the Jets that week, we're in the same position they were in.. they weren't ridiculously better than us at all. |
Clearly ART is just choosing his words carefully these days, thats all. I would too after the Hoopla that led to his current Sig. Hell I might scream from the roof top if I were you that the Giants were the best team ever just to get rid of that bad karma you drummed up for yourself last season. I'd expect nothing but negativity from him about Vick and the Eagles. Reverse psychology and all:wink:
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NoHypeNeeded
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 10471
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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^Haha true, yeah those sigs suck.. and I def feel you there, regarding the reverse psychology 
Giants to repeat.
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| Jroc04 wrote: | | This is the Eagles forum; we woke up drinking. |
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birdman0069
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 6050
Location: Key West, FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| philyeagles3 wrote: | | birdman0069 wrote: |
Please tell me what great stats have to do with anything? Is fantasy football more inportant to you then winning football games? I don't know how far you go back but I watched Vick in college and he is the same player today. He is a one read QB. That's always been the knock on him. He can not read complexed defenses therefor he throws int's, doesn't read the blitz well and tucks the ball and runs. What part of that do you disagree with? There have been plenty of QB's that have made a living in the NFL with similar skill sets but none have been elite. That's what we are really talking about here. Vick is good at what he does. He is also limited by what he can do. If you are having a hard time realizing Vick isn't a "great" QB then it's because your a fan. No problem, I get it, I am a fan of certain players as well. That doesn't mean they are going to Canton. Can we win a Super Bowl with Vick? Maybe, if he manages the game. Can we win the Super Bowl because of Vick? Extremely doubtfull. You can't relearn the game of football at the age of 30-35 years of age. Vick can't even learn to slide! |
Steve Young was elite. Lol Vick being the same player as he was in college that is OBNOXIOUS. If Vick was the same player he was in college he would be done in the NFL. Lol, come on. Thats too easy.
Vick may never be elite, but I think there are only 3 elite Qbs in the game right now (still dont think manning is elite, just clutch). I think he can be top 10.
Dude, Eagles learned a new offense and a new defense last year. So yeah I guess you can relearn football. They changed from a power-blocking scheme to a zone blocking scheme. That changes sooooooooo much. Vick went from having zero responsibility of adjusting the play, to having full responsibility. He sucked in the beginning, yeah. Who wouldn't with 1 MONTH TO LEARN, LOCKOUT SAYS HIIIIIIIII!!. He is still learning I guarantee it. You dont learn everything in 1 year. He will get better at adjusting and seeing the defense, why? Because its the probable outcome with hard work. Studying film. The more you know, the better you get in this offense.
It's essentially the same control and same type of plays Peyton manning had in Indy. Peyton didnt learn this offense in 1 the year. It gets better the longer youre in it, as long as you put in the hard work and have the talent. |
I'll say this as politely as possible. Put down the pipe and stop sniffin Vick's jock. This is not a new offence. It's the same verticle-based offense we have been running for years. To say say Vick will have the same controll as Manning is laughable. Mannings calls all of his own plays and is the the only NFL QB that does. Vick has all of his plays called in over the head set. Go back to the play-off game against Green Bay and watch Matthews coming of the edge all day. Vick never sees him. The same thing happens in every game last season. Vick can't read the Blitz. You want to take an illiterate high school student and put Hamlet in his hands and expect him to understand it, good luck. Vick can study and relearn all he wants, the FACT is when he gets out of bed tomarrow, he's still going to be Mike Vick and not Peyton Manning.
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philyeagles3
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 3555
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| birdman0069 wrote: | | philyeagles3 wrote: | | birdman0069 wrote: |
Please tell me what great stats have to do with anything? Is fantasy football more inportant to you then winning football games? I don't know how far you go back but I watched Vick in college and he is the same player today. He is a one read QB. That's always been the knock on him. He can not read complexed defenses therefor he throws int's, doesn't read the blitz well and tucks the ball and runs. What part of that do you disagree with? There have been plenty of QB's that have made a living in the NFL with similar skill sets but none have been elite. That's what we are really talking about here. Vick is good at what he does. He is also limited by what he can do. If you are having a hard time realizing Vick isn't a "great" QB then it's because your a fan. No problem, I get it, I am a fan of certain players as well. That doesn't mean they are going to Canton. Can we win a Super Bowl with Vick? Maybe, if he manages the game. Can we win the Super Bowl because of Vick? Extremely doubtfull. You can't relearn the game of football at the age of 30-35 years of age. Vick can't even learn to slide! |
Steve Young was elite. Lol Vick being the same player as he was in college that is OBNOXIOUS. If Vick was the same player he was in college he would be done in the NFL. Lol, come on. Thats too easy.
Vick may never be elite, but I think there are only 3 elite Qbs in the game right now (still dont think manning is elite, just clutch). I think he can be top 10.
Dude, Eagles learned a new offense and a new defense last year. So yeah I guess you can relearn football. They changed from a power-blocking scheme to a zone blocking scheme. That changes sooooooooo much. Vick went from having zero responsibility of adjusting the play, to having full responsibility. He sucked in the beginning, yeah. Who wouldn't with 1 MONTH TO LEARN, LOCKOUT SAYS HIIIIIIIII!!. He is still learning I guarantee it. You dont learn everything in 1 year. He will get better at adjusting and seeing the defense, why? Because its the probable outcome with hard work. Studying film. The more you know, the better you get in this offense.
It's essentially the same control and same type of plays Peyton manning had in Indy. Peyton didnt learn this offense in 1 the year. It gets better the longer youre in it, as long as you put in the hard work and have the talent. |
I'll say this as politely as possible. Put down the pipe and stop sniffin Vick's jock. This is not a new offence. It's the same verticle-based offense we have been running for years. To say say Vick will have the same controll as Manning is laughable. Mannings calls all of his own plays and is the the only NFL QB that does. Vick has all of his plays called in over the head set. Go back to the play-off game against Green Bay and watch Matthews coming of the edge all day. Vick never sees him. The same thing happens in every game last season. Vick can't read the Blitz. You want to take an illiterate high school student and put Hamlet in his hands and expect him to understand it, good luck. Vick can study and relearn all he wants, the FACT is when he gets out of bed tomarrow, he's still going to be Mike Vick and not Peyton Manning. |
Ok, 1) It is a new offense, if you refuse to believe that, that's just plain ignorance. Are we still a power running team that relies on the center making the pre-snap adjustements?
Never said he was Peyton NOT ONCE.
2010- Center controls the adjustments
2011- Qb controls adjustmetns
Meaning the GB game is comepletely irrelevant.
Take up a sig bet with me, if this is what you truly believe.
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Art_Vandalay
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 20384
Location: Thornton, CO
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | | NoHypeNeeded wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Art_Vandalay wrote: | | RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Going to be fun when Vick put up great stats, and we become NFC East champs. Yeah I'm saying it right now, we will win the East in 12, and Vick will play great. |
The Giants are better than us at every unit except maybe CB and their confidence is at an all time high. I don't see any way we win the division over them. I don't think too highly of the Skins and Cowboys though. Best case scenario, we somehow manage a wildcard. But since my recent transition to the dark side, Im not counting on it. |
The Giants aren't any more talented than us. The numbers show we had a better offense and defense. So, what does that mean? They played slightly better as a team and barely edged their way into the playoffs. They got hot at the right time. We got hot a little too late. Them's the breaks. But, you could see the team put it together at the end. With a full offseason to prepare and Andy on the hot seat, I think we'll see a much better year from the Iggs this upcoming season. |
Really.. if the Giants lose to the Jets that week, we're in the same position they were in.. they weren't ridiculously better than us at all. |
Clearly ART is just choosing his words carefully these days, thats all. I would too after the Hoopla that led to his current Sig. Hell I might scream from the roof top if I were you that the Giants were the best team ever just to get rid of that bad karma you drummed up for yourself last season. I'd expect nothing but negativity from him about Vick and the Eagles. Reverse psychology and all:wink: |
The sig sucks but if I feel a certain way about something, I'm going to say it.
The Giants were up and down for the majority of the season but everything seemed to click at the end. Yeah, things looked like they started to click for us as we started to beat up on some average/scrub teams, but the Giants showed they could beat the top tier teams and excel in every phase of the game. Can you really argue this? .....
QB: Giants - Clearly better
RBs: Eagles - Clearly better
O-line: Too close to call
WR corps (including TEs) - Giants - Clearly better
D-line: Giants - Clearly better
LB corps: Giants - Clearly better
Secondary: Giants - Clearly better
Special Teams - Giants - Clearly better
Coaching: Giants - Clearly better
They have a pretty young team and it's obvious that they started to gel toward the end. They're only going to get better, especially since they know how to evaluate talent and draft. You don't win building through free agency. If you have a chance, look at both teams drafts over the past 10 years. It's comical. The only successful draft we had was back in '02 when we drafted Lito, Sheldon, Michael Lewis, and B-West. So, you can point and laugh all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the Giants are the clearly superior team. I suggest you guys set the bar very low this season. |
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nlesthought
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 7604
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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^Is that based on talent of each unit? Also are you talking about last yr? Or this up-coming season?
I believe they'll lose Manningham, Osi
And I disagree there secondary is better they gave up a bunch of yards, tds, the fact remains they played well enough to allow their DL to ball out. I'd also say both LB units are evenly weak.
I understand setting the bar low I too don't want to be spoon-fed high expectations. But to dump on the squad because your rival was lucky enough to get in and get hot while in. Who knows what happens if NO beats SF? My point being they received a ton of breaks in their favor. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on them.
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psn: nlesthought l Peppers90 on the sig
| Phire wrote: | | Brady, Rodgers, or Manning will win this Super Bowl. |
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 23280
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Art_Vandalay wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | NoHypeNeeded wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Art_Vandalay wrote: | | RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Going to be fun when Vick put up great stats, and we become NFC East champs. Yeah I'm saying it right now, we will win the East in 12, and Vick will play great. |
The Giants are better than us at every unit except maybe CB and their confidence is at an all time high. I don't see any way we win the division over them. I don't think too highly of the Skins and Cowboys though. Best case scenario, we somehow manage a wildcard. But since my recent transition to the dark side, Im not counting on it. |
The Giants aren't any more talented than us. The numbers show we had a better offense and defense. So, what does that mean? They played slightly better as a team and barely edged their way into the playoffs. They got hot at the right time. We got hot a little too late. Them's the breaks. But, you could see the team put it together at the end. With a full offseason to prepare and Andy on the hot seat, I think we'll see a much better year from the Iggs this upcoming season. |
Really.. if the Giants lose to the Jets that week, we're in the same position they were in.. they weren't ridiculously better than us at all. |
Clearly ART is just choosing his words carefully these days, thats all. I would too after the Hoopla that led to his current Sig. Hell I might scream from the roof top if I were you that the Giants were the best team ever just to get rid of that bad karma you drummed up for yourself last season. I'd expect nothing but negativity from him about Vick and the Eagles. Reverse psychology and all:wink: |
The sig sucks but if I feel a certain way about something, I'm going to say it.
The Giants were up and down for the majority of the season but everything seemed to click at the end. Yeah, things looked like they started to click for us as we started to beat up on some average/scrub teams, but the Giants showed they could beat the top tier teams and excel in every phase of the game. Can you really argue this? .....
QB: Giants - Clearly better
RBs: Eagles - Clearly better
O-line: Too close to call
WR corps (including TEs) - Giants - Clearly better
D-line: Giants - Clearly better
LB corps: Giants - Clearly better
Secondary: Giants - Clearly better
Special Teams - Giants - Clearly better
Coaching: Giants - Clearly better
They have a pretty young team and it's obvious that they started to gel toward the end. They're only going to get better, especially since they know how to evaluate talent and draft. You don't win building through free agency. If you have a chance, look at both teams drafts over the past 10 years. It's comical. The only successful draft we had was back in '02 when we drafted Lito, Sheldon, Michael Lewis, and B-West. So, you can point and laugh all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the Giants are the clearly superior team. I suggest you guys set the bar very low this season. |
Eh, Art, I think you and I both know that is the cheap way out when evaluating a team. The Giants are a good football team, there is no doubt about it, but I really don't think there is that much of a gap in talent either. We wouldn't have beaten them 6 out of the last 7 times or whatever if that was the case. The Eagles are a young football team as well, especially on defense, as much as both of us may hate Nate Allen, he is a young guy, who was coming off an injury. He showed awfulness a lot of the time but sometimes looked half way decent. More time and experience will ideally do players like him good... and we have a lot of them (Coleman, Jarrett, DRC, Chaney, Matthews, etc.). Although I share your similar feelings of apathy toward this team (that has more for me to do with the players actually on the roster, I'm looking at you, Desean Jackson) it is impossible to ignore that there is a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball and we shall call it potential on the defensive side.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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philyeagles3
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 3555
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Art_Vandalay wrote: | | Nabbs4u wrote: | | NoHypeNeeded wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | Art_Vandalay wrote: | | RainbowCarebear wrote: | | Going to be fun when Vick put up great stats, and we become NFC East champs. Yeah I'm saying it right now, we will win the East in 12, and Vick will play great. |
The Giants are better than us at every unit except maybe CB and their confidence is at an all time high. I don't see any way we win the division over them. I don't think too highly of the Skins and Cowboys though. Best case scenario, we somehow manage a wildcard. But since my recent transition to the dark side, Im not counting on it. |
The Giants aren't any more talented than us. The numbers show we had a better offense and defense. So, what does that mean? They played slightly better as a team and barely edged their way into the playoffs. They got hot at the right time. We got hot a little too late. Them's the breaks. But, you could see the team put it together at the end. With a full offseason to prepare and Andy on the hot seat, I think we'll see a much better year from the Iggs this upcoming season. |
Really.. if the Giants lose to the Jets that week, we're in the same position they were in.. they weren't ridiculously better than us at all. |
Clearly ART is just choosing his words carefully these days, thats all. I would too after the Hoopla that led to his current Sig. Hell I might scream from the roof top if I were you that the Giants were the best team ever just to get rid of that bad karma you drummed up for yourself last season. I'd expect nothing but negativity from him about Vick and the Eagles. Reverse psychology and all:wink: |
The sig sucks but if I feel a certain way about something, I'm going to say it.
The Giants were up and down for the majority of the season but everything seemed to click at the end. Yeah, things looked like they started to click for us as we started to beat up on some average/scrub teams, but the Giants showed they could beat the top tier teams and excel in every phase of the game. Can you really argue this? .....
QB: Giants - Clearly better
RBs: Eagles - Clearly better
O-line: Too close to call
WR corps (including TEs) - Giants - Clearly better
D-line: Giants - Clearly better
LB corps: Giants - Clearly better
Secondary: Giants - Clearly better
Special Teams - Giants - Clearly better
Coaching: Giants - Clearly better
They have a pretty young team and it's obvious that they started to gel toward the end. They're only going to get better, especially since they know how to evaluate talent and draft. You don't win building through free agency. If you have a chance, look at both teams drafts over the past 10 years. It's comical. The only successful draft we had was back in '02 when we drafted Lito, Sheldon, Michael Lewis, and B-West. So, you can point and laugh all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the Giants are the clearly superior team. I suggest you guys set the bar very low this season. |
As far as Giants to Eagles is concerned there is a reason we've won 7 out of 8 times. It's cause we are as good if not better than them 1v1, we just don't play the rest of the teams in the league like we play our division 
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Art_Vandalay
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 20384
Location: Thornton, CO
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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C'mon now. You all can't say I'm taking the easy way out with that evaluation then say, "Well, we won 7 out of the last 8 times we faced them." I don't care about what happened 2/3/4 years ago. How is that relevant at all? All I care about is what's going on now. We split last year and they won the Super Bowl. There's a reason they won it too. The team that was playing in the postseason wasn't the same 9-7 team that played in the regular season.
As far as our young guys are concerned, we're not going to figure out how good they are as long as the defensive staff is trying to jam their square peg into a round hole. We have talent, but the staff isn't utilizing it correctly. They're just trying to force their system rather than adjust. Their stubbornness is going to lead to their firing. I honestly don't see any reason to believe we can beat out the Giants for the division unless you can convince me that beating them several years ago with a completely different roster and coaching staff is somehow significant now. |
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nlesthought
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 7604
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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How long you have to wear the sig?
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psn: nlesthought l Peppers90 on the sig
| Phire wrote: | | Brady, Rodgers, or Manning will win this Super Bowl. |
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highboy
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| birdman0069 wrote: | | philyeagles3 wrote: | | birdman0069 wrote: |
Please tell me what great stats have to do with anything? Is fantasy football more inportant to you then winning football games? I don't know how far you go back but I watched Vick in college and he is the same player today. He is a one read QB. That's always been the knock on him. He can not read complexed defenses therefor he throws int's, doesn't read the blitz well and tucks the ball and runs. What part of that do you disagree with? There have been plenty of QB's that have made a living in the NFL with similar skill sets but none have been elite. That's what we are really talking about here. Vick is good at what he does. He is also limited by what he can do. If you are having a hard time realizing Vick isn't a "great" QB then it's because your a fan. No problem, I get it, I am a fan of certain players as well. That doesn't mean they are going to Canton. Can we win a Super Bowl with Vick? Maybe, if he manages the game. Can we win the Super Bowl because of Vick? Extremely doubtfull. You can't relearn the game of football at the age of 30-35 years of age. Vick can't even learn to slide! |
Steve Young was elite. Lol Vick being the same player as he was in college that is OBNOXIOUS. If Vick was the same player he was in college he would be done in the NFL. Lol, come on. Thats too easy.
Vick may never be elite, but I think there are only 3 elite Qbs in the game right now (still dont think manning is elite, just clutch). I think he can be top 10.
Dude, Eagles learned a new offense and a new defense last year. So yeah I guess you can relearn football. They changed from a power-blocking scheme to a zone blocking scheme. That changes sooooooooo much. Vick went from having zero responsibility of adjusting the play, to having full responsibility. He sucked in the beginning, yeah. Who wouldn't with 1 MONTH TO LEARN, LOCKOUT SAYS HIIIIIIIII!!. He is still learning I guarantee it. You dont learn everything in 1 year. He will get better at adjusting and seeing the defense, why? Because its the probable outcome with hard work. Studying film. The more you know, the better you get in this offense.
It's essentially the same control and same type of plays Peyton manning had in Indy. Peyton didnt learn this offense in 1 the year. It gets better the longer youre in it, as long as you put in the hard work and have the talent. |
I'll say this as politely as possible. Put down the pipe and stop sniffin Vick's jock. This is not a new offence. It's the same verticle-based offense we have been running for years. To say say Vick will have the same controll as Manning is laughable. Mannings calls all of his own plays and is the the only NFL QB that does. Vick has all of his plays called in over the head set. Go back to the play-off game against Green Bay and watch Matthews coming of the edge all day. Vick never sees him. The same thing happens in every game last season. Vick can't read the Blitz. You want to take an illiterate high school student and put Hamlet in his hands and expect him to understand it, good luck. Vick can study and relearn all he wants, the FACT is when he gets out of bed tomarrow, he's still going to be Mike Vick and not Peyton Manning. |
I have to concur here. Its not even close to the same offense they ran in Indy. No one runs it BUT Indy. Peyton ran a no huddle offense and all the plays were called at the line of scrimmage. The fact the guy you're responding to missed that the last 14 years really tells me its a waste of time arguing. In any event, Vick is still horribly inadequate and isn't any closer to being a SB QB than he was before prison. The talent around him has changed in terms of roster and coaching, but other than that, the only other difference is he's older and even more injury prone. |
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philyeagles3
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 3555
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| highboy wrote: | | birdman0069 wrote: | | philyeagles3 wrote: | | birdman0069 wrote: |
Please tell me what great stats have to do with anything? Is fantasy football more inportant to you then winning football games? I don't know how far you go back but I watched Vick in college and he is the same player today. He is a one read QB. That's always been the knock on him. He can not read complexed defenses therefor he throws int's, doesn't read the blitz well and tucks the ball and runs. What part of that do you disagree with? There have been plenty of QB's that have made a living in the NFL with similar skill sets but none have been elite. That's what we are really talking about here. Vick is good at what he does. He is also limited by what he can do. If you are having a hard time realizing Vick isn't a "great" QB then it's because your a fan. No problem, I get it, I am a fan of certain players as well. That doesn't mean they are going to Canton. Can we win a Super Bowl with Vick? Maybe, if he manages the game. Can we win the Super Bowl because of Vick? Extremely doubtfull. You can't relearn the game of football at the age of 30-35 years of age. Vick can't even learn to slide! |
Steve Young was elite. Lol Vick being the same player as he was in college that is OBNOXIOUS. If Vick was the same player he was in college he would be done in the NFL. Lol, come on. Thats too easy.
Vick may never be elite, but I think there are only 3 elite Qbs in the game right now (still dont think manning is elite, just clutch). I think he can be top 10.
Dude, Eagles learned a new offense and a new defense last year. So yeah I guess you can relearn football. They changed from a power-blocking scheme to a zone blocking scheme. That changes sooooooooo much. Vick went from having zero responsibility of adjusting the play, to having full responsibility. He sucked in the beginning, yeah. Who wouldn't with 1 MONTH TO LEARN, LOCKOUT SAYS HIIIIIIIII!!. He is still learning I guarantee it. You dont learn everything in 1 year. He will get better at adjusting and seeing the defense, why? Because its the probable outcome with hard work. Studying film. The more you know, the better you get in this offense.
It's essentially the same control and same type of plays Peyton manning had in Indy. Peyton didnt learn this offense in 1 the year. It gets better the longer youre in it, as long as you put in the hard work and have the talent. |
I'll say this as politely as possible. Put down the pipe and stop sniffin Vick's jock. This is not a new offence. It's the same verticle-based offense we have been running for years. To say say Vick will have the same controll as Manning is laughable. Mannings calls all of his own plays and is the the only NFL QB that does. Vick has all of his plays called in over the head set. Go back to the play-off game against Green Bay and watch Matthews coming of the edge all day. Vick never sees him. The same thing happens in every game last season. Vick can't read the Blitz. You want to take an illiterate high school student and put Hamlet in his hands and expect him to understand it, good luck. Vick can study and relearn all he wants, the FACT is when he gets out of bed tomarrow, he's still going to be Mike Vick and not Peyton Manning. |
I have to concur here. Its not even close to the same offense they ran in Indy. No one runs it BUT Indy. Peyton ran a no huddle offense and all the plays were called at the line of scrimmage. The fact the guy you're responding to missed that the last 14 years really tells me its a waste of time arguing. In any event, Vick is still horribly inadequate and isn't any closer to being a SB QB than he was before prison. The talent around him has changed in terms of roster and coaching, but other than that, the only other difference is he's older and even more injury prone. |
OK, I'm going to make this as simple as possible for all of you out there.
From 1999 to 2010 we ran a power blocking scheme, right? Yes. And in that offense the QB is not responsible for adjusting protections or even adjusting the play. The center changed the protections, ala Hank Fraley, Jamal Jackson, and Nick Cole (Not really). Which was why there was failures in blitz pick-up, no hot reads, no audibles.
In 2011 we switched to a zone blocking scheme, which (in Howards Mudds scheme/philosophy like the one he ran in INDY!) gives the QB responsibility of making all pre-snap adjustments, point out the blitzers, set up the protection, audible if necessary, and even make a hot read if need be. And he has to know all of this FOR EVERY PLAY.
That's whats different guys. Vick had to learn to do all this for the first time, probably ever. Progress comes with experience and hard work, you could see a difference in the later part of the year. If you don't think he will improve that's fine, just know he did something this year he probably never has in his life.
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philyeagles3
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Do any of you remember hearing Vick yell "Kill, Kill, Kill" a couple of times a game?
Lol that's an audible, that wasn't something Reid ever allowed his QB to do before.
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birdman0069
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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Location: Key West, FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Now you are changing your story. Earlier you said we were a power running team in previous seasons. As I said, that couldn't be further from the truth. Just because our blocking scheme changes doesn't mean our offensive philosophy changes. We are a verticle attacking offense that relies on multiple reads, getting up early and running the ball after we have a lead. That's a philosophy my friend. As I stated. Vick is a one read QB. That's where Vick is at his best. Stats don't lie and stats say Vick turns the ball over to often due to his inability to read defences properly and his lack of ball security. These are not opinions, they are facts.
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philyeagles3
Joined: 01 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| birdman0069 wrote: | | Now you are changing your story. Earlier you said we were a power running team in previous seasons. As I said, that couldn't be further from the truth. Just because our blocking scheme changes doesn't mean our offensive philosophy changes. We are a verticle attacking offense that relies on multiple reads, getting up early and running the ball after we have a lead. That's a philosophy my friend. As I stated. Vick is a one read QB. That's where Vick is at his best. Stats don't lie and stats say Vick turns the ball over to often due to his inability to read defences properly and his lack of ball security. These are not opinions, they are facts. |
Yeah haha, didn't mean power running. Power blocking- zone blocking. I'm not changing my story I messed up on one single word.
The idea may be the same, but the scheme isn't. The blocking changed all running plays for starters, the zone blocking changed the protections, it changed the fact we audible now. It changed how the blocking is set up and who exactly sets it up.
Vertical offense is just an idea, a general plan. There is a lot more to do with it then what routes the WRs run. The routes are probably the only thing to not change, but every offense runs all the routes, it's just a matter of how often they run each route.
You're believing this to be to broad, it's way more specific than even I know.
Can you at least acknowledge that Reid is making Vick do something they have never done before, prior to last year? Idc if you think Vick will suck in the coming season, but at least be honest and realize this.
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