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SoCalNiner
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Chrissooner49er wrote: | | SoCalNiner wrote: | | EverythingSF wrote: | | SoCalNiner wrote: | | EverythingSF wrote: | I'm still one that doesn't see why Schaub is allowed to be seen as so much better than Alex. We don't have the same offensive weapons, protection, or agressiveness and Alex has still accomplished as much if not more under the circumstances.
I know number wise a fan would pick Schaub, but in games watching Matt he misses a lot of big time throws and he gets bailed out big time by Andre Johnson (just like Stafford gets bailed out with Megatron) and also his biggest weapon may be Arian Foster who takes a 2 yard dump off pass, breaks 3 tackles and turns it into a 70 yard TD from time to time.
I think they're closer in talent than people want to admit |
No they're not. For one thing Schaub has been a consistently good/great QB. You're telling me that Alex doesn't miss big time throws or checks down to Gore? Before this year Gore bailed out Alex more than anyone.
Two completely different QB's as well, Schaub's not afraid to pull the trigger and will take the riskier throws. Alex play's safe sound ball, he'll take the shorter throws more often the longer one, because he doesn't want to take that risk of a pick.
One good season by Alex doesn't make him better or as good as Schaub who's had great consecutive season. |
We'll have to agree to disagree. This is a situation where I believe that if the two were to switch positions then Alex's numbers would be the ones to triumph Schaubs. To me the Texan's offense would suit Alex much better than ours does as they spread it out much more often than we do, also have had much better receiving threats and coaching. Not to mention that the Texans are also trying to score 35 points a game just to win why we are aiming for 24.
I guess the only question I could ask to see how much different we feel on the situation is what kind of stats do you feel Alex would be able to put up in Houston's offense? I feel they would be very similar to what Schaub has been able to do. |
You can put Alex in whatever offense you want, it's ultimately up to him as to where the ball goes and who he wants to throw to. He's shown that he's not a huge risk taker and will take the safer throw more often not. That's why he's the type of QB he is.
Do I think he can be a prolific QB? Yes, but it's going to be up to him. From what we've seen he's a QB who'll play very careful and is very meticulous. If it's not there he won't take it and he won't force it. Less risk, less reward, which is why he's not on Schaub's level. More of a mentality thing imo. |
He is what past coaches have made him...hopefully Jim can continue the makeover currently in progress!  |
The question is, can Harbaugh change his habit? No doubt that he has the tools.
The thing that I'm most critical of Alex is his careful play style. It irks me because I know he can be great if he just took off the safety.
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oldman9er
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| SoCalNiner wrote: |
You can put Alex in whatever offense you want, it's ultimately up to him as to where the ball goes and who he wants to throw to. He's shown that he's not a huge risk taker and will take the safer throw more often not. That's why he's the type of QB he is.
Do I think he can be a prolific QB? Yes, but it's going to be up to him. From what we've seen he's a QB who'll play very careful and is very meticulous. If it's not there he won't take it and he won't force it. Less risk, less reward, which is why he's not on Schaub's level. More of a mentality thing imo. |
Like Joe Montana alluded to, he's careful when reading the field and his targets don't get separation. As we upgrade the weapons, Alex will let loose in more than just the moments where he has to (playing catchup or when it is now or never). As we upgrade the weapons and he sees them separate as pro targets should, he'll grow to trust them and let loose more. A mentality thing, but one forced on him due to outside circumstances out of his control. 
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mrscottso
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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Location: NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| oldman9er wrote: | | SoCalNiner wrote: |
You can put Alex in whatever offense you want, it's ultimately up to him as to where the ball goes and who he wants to throw to. He's shown that he's not a huge risk taker and will take the safer throw more often not. That's why he's the type of QB he is.
Do I think he can be a prolific QB? Yes, but it's going to be up to him. From what we've seen he's a QB who'll play very careful and is very meticulous. If it's not there he won't take it and he won't force it. Less risk, less reward, which is why he's not on Schaub's level. More of a mentality thing imo. |
Like Joe Montana alluded to, he's careful when reading the field and his targets don't get separation. As we upgrade the weapons, Alex will let loose in more than just the moments where he has to (playing catchup or when it is now or never). As we upgrade the weapons and he sees them separate as pro targets should, he'll grow to trust them and let loose more. A mentality thing, but one forced on him due to outside circumstances out of his control. |
Good point.
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EverythingSF
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| SoCalNiner wrote: | You can put Alex in whatever offense you want, it's ultimately up to him as to where the ball goes and who he wants to throw to. He's shown that he's not a huge risk taker and will take the safer throw more often not. That's why he's the type of QB he is.
Do I think he can be a prolific QB? Yes, but it's going to be up to him. From what we've seen he's a QB who'll play very careful and is very meticulous. If it's not there he won't take it and he won't force it. Less risk, less reward, which is why he's not on Schaub's level. More of a mentality thing imo. |
Yeah I will agree that Alex is safe and not a huge risk taker in this offense. I think that has a lot to do with our style/play calling and also a little to do with our receivers and the amount of trust Alex has with them.
For example try to think of Alex's deepest throws this year when he tried to make things happen. The first three that jumped into my head were Davis' drop in the endzone versus the Rams, Edwards giving up vs the Ravens, and a penalty robbing Ginn/Alex a great TD vs the Ravens. He did miss Williams in the NFCCG, but connected quite a few times with Davis in the playoffs and no pass being more ballsy than the game winner vs the Saints.
Now that we have a receiving threat like Andre Johnson in Randy Moss I believe we'll see some more long balls and a "ballsier" Alex Smith.....that is if Moss plays like he can.
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | Boltstrikes wrote: |
Alex's Mom? |
Alex's High School Backup?  |
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oldman9er
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EverythingSF wrote: |
For example try to think of Alex's deepest throws this year when he tried to make things happen. |
The best that stands out is the one deep post pass to Ginn where Teddy was looking all over as the ball fell 6 inches from his foot. 
Talk about clueless on a nice deep ball. Shameful display from a "pro" wideout.
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rudyZ
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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When he was asked to take risks, Alex has taken them. The saints game is the perfect reflection of that. He takes shots at VD, and he makes the plays. He tries one, perfectly thrown, gutsy throw to the other side... but it's Brett Swain trying to catch the ball... you can take shots all you want, but if you have Brett Swains at the other end, it's not going to work. So, maybe he would have been better off checking down, dumping it off. When he tries, his receiver fails, when he doesn't he plays too safe... it's a lose-lose situation for Alex. We need, HE needs, receivers, plain and simple.
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EverythingSF
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
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Location: Merced, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| oldman9er wrote: | | EverythingSF wrote: |
For example try to think of Alex's deepest throws this year when he tried to make things happen. |
The best that stands out is the one deep post pass to Ginn where Teddy was looking all over as the ball fell 6 inches from his foot.
Talk about clueless on a nice deep ball. Shameful display from a "pro" wideout. |
Lol how could I forget about that one? That was one of the things that ended up costing the win against Arizona.
Btw, I'd also like to add that I think many people are overlooking the fact that our entire offense will finally fully know the scheme next year. From what has been said, Vernon Davis didn't pick up the playbook until the end of the year and before that he was constantly having to be reminded what his route was on plays. Now if you are the QB would you want to throw to the guy that you just had to tell where to go on each play?
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | Boltstrikes wrote: |
Alex's Mom? |
Alex's High School Backup? |
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rudyZ
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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Location: Québec
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | oldman9er wrote: | | EverythingSF wrote: |
For example try to think of Alex's deepest throws this year when he tried to make things happen. |
The best that stands out is the one deep post pass to Ginn where Teddy was looking all over as the ball fell 6 inches from his foot.
Talk about clueless on a nice deep ball. Shameful display from a "pro" wideout. |
Lol how could I forget about that one? That was one of the things that ended up costing the win against Arizona.
Btw, I'd also like to add that I think many people are overlooking the fact that our entire offense will finally fully know the scheme next year. From what has been said, Vernon Davis didn't pick up the playbook until the end of the year and before that he was constantly having to be reminded what his route was on plays. Now if you are the QB would you want to throw to the guy that you just had to tell where to go on each play? |
Full playbook also means we'll have a screen game, as well. Screens notorious for being hard to pull off, because of the timing required. We ran a ridiculously low amount of screens last year. Add that wrinkle to our offense, and it holds off pressure a lot more. Then, give time to Alex, and he will find more receivers.
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SoCalNiner
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| oldman9er wrote: | | EverythingSF wrote: |
For example try to think of Alex's deepest throws this year when he tried to make things happen. |
The best that stands out is the one deep post pass to Ginn where Teddy was looking all over as the ball fell 6 inches from his foot.
Talk about clueless on a nice deep ball. Shameful display from a "pro" wideout. |
Swain. That is all.
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SoCalNiner
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| EverythingSF wrote: | | I think that has a lot to do with our style/play calling and also a little to do with our receivers and the amount of trust Alex has with them. |
This falls in line with me saying that the decision is his to make. He may not choose the offense, but he chooses where the ball goes.
As far as him not trusting his receivers, sorry I don't buy that. I think that it's another excuse (I know there's plenty of those ) If he doesn't want to make a throw because he doesn't "trust" someone, then it falls back to his mentality. He should care less about who he's throwing to and pay more attention to making the throw if that's the case.
As I said before, he's best in the hurry up where can't really sit and think too long. Him being such a cautious character is good because he won't turn it over as much, but it's also his downfall at times.
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SoCalNiner
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| oldman9er wrote: | | SoCalNiner wrote: |
You can put Alex in whatever offense you want, it's ultimately up to him as to where the ball goes and who he wants to throw to. He's shown that he's not a huge risk taker and will take the safer throw more often not. That's why he's the type of QB he is.
Do I think he can be a prolific QB? Yes, but it's going to be up to him. From what we've seen he's a QB who'll play very careful and is very meticulous. If it's not there he won't take it and he won't force it. Less risk, less reward, which is why he's not on Schaub's level. More of a mentality thing imo. |
Like Joe Montana alluded to, he's careful when reading the field and his targets don't get separation. As we upgrade the weapons, Alex will let loose in more than just the moments where he has to (playing catchup or when it is now or never). As we upgrade the weapons and he sees them separate as pro targets should, he'll grow to trust them and let loose more. A mentality thing, but one forced on him due to outside circumstances out of his control. |
I'll drink to that Oldie, hope you're right and it plays out that way.
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rudyZ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SoCalNiner wrote: |
As far as him not trusting his receivers, sorry I don't buy that. I think that it's another excuse (I know there's plenty of those ) If he doesn't want to make a throw because he doesn't "trust" someone, then it falls back to his mentality. He should care less about who he's throwing to and pay more attention to making the throw if that's the case. |
If he doesn,t want to make the throw, it's because he doesn't think his receiver can make the catch. If he forced the throw, the receiver would likely not make the catch. So, he's looking elsewhere. It's his decision, but it's not being afraid to take a risk, it's the decision to try to get something instead of nothing. Why does Alex think the receiver won't catch it? Because he has thrown that ball to Ginn, he has thrown it to Swain, he has thrown it to VD, and they've all had absurd drops. It's not so much the fear of the risk as knowing his teammates are letting him down. He'll try to get the 80% guaranteed 5 yards gain, instead of the 10% likely 40 yards gain. Can you blame him for that? Now... bring in Randy Moss, and suddenly, that 40 yards gain goes from 10% to 80%, just because he's a capable receiver. It won't even seem like a risk for Alex to throw that ball. He'll throw it because he knows Randy can come down with it. As simple as that.
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EverythingSF
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oldman9er
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yep.. there's a reason we didn't have many volley-ball tipped INTs like we did the year before. Alex decided time and again that such shots were not worth it... and that mentality nearly won us a SB.
How nice when he doesn't have to think like that one day. 
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adamq
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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I think the most important number last year for us on offense was 5. The entire season, Alex only threw 5 interceptions, less than any starting QB in the NFL.
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