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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: Rutgers University
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 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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^Their draft valuations have nothing to do with it.
Freeman is physically superior and has developed wonderfully and quickly, whereas Ponder remains a question mark. My bet is on him being subpar. I hope I'm wrong.
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wcblack34
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 3968
Location: Anywhere but Wisconsin.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleMugen wrote: | ^Their draft valuations have nothing to do with it.
Freeman is physically superior and has developed wonderfully and quickly, whereas Ponder remains a question mark. My bet is on him being subpar. I hope I'm wrong. |
You do realize that Freeman threw 16 TD's to 22 INT's this past year, right? He had a single great season, but so did Derrick Anderson once upon a time. I think it's a bit early to call one of them better than the other. In fact, Ponder's rookie season was a good deal better than Freeman's. |
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SteelKing728
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
Posts: 10849
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleMugen wrote: | | VikeSince70 wrote: | | PrplChilPill wrote: | | VikeSince70 wrote: | Ponder has already gone on record as saying that year 2 from his first year has been where he made his biggest improvements.
I say 60% completion, 3000 yards, 21 TD's, 7 interceptions and I would be very happy  |
Zero chance he throws a 3:1 TD:Int ratio. No way. |
It has happened before and I do see Ponder as very intelligent to make this happen. Look at Freeman in his 2nd year. He had better then a 3 to 1 ratio.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9281 |
Ponder is no Freeman, though. I would take Freeman over him any day of the week - especially Sundays  |
how do you know this?
Is he somehow destined to be bad, that he cannot be better than Josh Freeman.
Please, elaborate.
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HighHopes
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 25255
Location: Courtroom
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:15 am Post subject: Re: Christian Ponder Expectations |
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| Kellerman wrote: | | vike daddy wrote: | | TheInsitefulOne wrote: | | What do you guys expect? |
Ponder to be bashed pretty heavily in this thread. |
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This is what Im thinking.
Ponder will be average. 200 yards or so average about 1:1 TD/INT, will get hurt for about 3-4 games. Webb will then put up similar numbers. The vikings will be about 6-10, and the off season debate begins again.
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Kellerman
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 3159
Location: Amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| SteelKing728 wrote: | | WST888 wrote: | I definitely wanted RGII as our QB following the draft, but seeing as how he wouldn't have even fell to us anyway, that's water under the birdge for me now.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what direction Ponder heads in. I've always known him to make a few bad turnovers, and really crumble when the pressures on. Hopefully, Ponder can progress in his second year. I'd say going into the offseason as the starter will be good for his confidence.
What I like about Ponder the most is his ability to make plays with his legs when the play breaks down. He has deceptive speed, and is probably the 3rd fastest starting QB in the league |
Okay, so Vick and Newton...
I'd say Rodgers is pretty fast, Tebow, Freeman, and Tarvaris Jackson.
Its a hard case to argue. I'd say top 5 fastest, but i don't think that makes a difference.
projected over the whole season, even though I don't care much for stats, I could see him throwing anywhere from 18-23 TDs, and 10-12 INTs, just under 4000 yards passing, and add 300 yards rushing.
I feel this offense will definitally grow in its second year, and Carlson/Rudolph will quite literally have their hands full. |
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but Rodgers is not that fast. He has a decent set of wheels for a QB, but he runs when he has acres of space, not to get out of trouble. Ponder has great acceleration, and actually pulled away from defenders/got the corner a few times last year. Obviously nothing like Webb. Freeman is not that fast either, neither is Tarvaris Jackson, all those guys are a level below Ponder when it comes to speed.
As for my expectations, I want to see improvement. Not every flaw adressed, but strides made in the right direction. Better completion percentage, less of a gunslinger mentality, not forcing the ball.
For a QB, I'd expect a break-out in year 3 or 4, so next year I'm just looking for tangible improvement over his rookie season.
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Frank Costello
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Comparing Freeman to Ponder doesn't really work, at all. I know you were just using Freeman's sophomore season as a measuring stick.
Freeman completely regressed last year, mainly do to not having any weapons. Which is the reason why it's important to surround Ponder with ample talent.
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Frank Costello wrote: | | Comparing Freeman to Ponder doesn't really work, at all. I know you were just using Freeman's sophomore season as a measuring stick. |
While I certainly haven't watched Freeman in the NFL, I watched his entire college career at K-State. I wasn't impressed. I've seen more from Ponder, from simply a leadership standpoint, than I ever saw from Freeman. Freeman may have more physical skills, but he's not a leader.
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faceofflax15
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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How can a lot of you consider yourself vikings fan? for years, we complained that we never drafted our franchise QB, and now that we finally did, so many "fans" are so eager to give up on him and throw him under the bus.
I understand that people wanted Ponder to have a freak season like Cam Newton, but he had arguably the best rookie season of all time...
He had no offseason to grow, 2 play-makers on offense (AP, Harvin), the worse pass defense I've ever seen, and a fan base that bashed him.
Give the man a chance.
Ponder's my QB of the future, and he showed a lot last year that makes me dang excited about it.
I just want to point out, John Elways rookie year he was 4-6, 47%, completion, 151 yrds/game, and a 7 TD to 15INT ratio... I guess the broncos should have given up on him too.
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2011/12/17/2643479/many-quarterbacks-struggle-in-their-rookie-years |
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:48 am Post subject: |
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John Elway was considered a prime, grade A+++++ talent coming out, it was clear he had the physical and mental tools to grow into the position.
It's not clear with Ponder. It could happen, or it might not. Drafting Elway was a no-brainer, obvious decision. Drafting Ponder at 12 was questioned by many, many people.
I don't think anyone on this board, or any fan I've ever met or heard on the radio ever argued Ponder should be as good as Newton. That's a straw man argument, which seems to be becoming the standard way of making a point on these boards lately.
No one that is commenting negatively on Ponder has changed their mind, they didn't believe in him coming out of college, and saw no reason to change their mind based on last year's play.
If Ponder didn't play well because the "fan base bashed him", which I don't agree with, btw, then he's not ready to be an NFL QB and should be cut immediately.
Also, there is no right way to be a fan, so I'd appreciate not having my loytalties questioned (since I've been watching the Vikings since 1969) just because I don't agree with your opinion on any particular item.
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Virginia Viking
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 2452
Location: Unemployed in VA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| PrplChilPill wrote: | John Elway was considered a prime, grade A+++++ talent coming out, it was clear he had the physical and mental tools to grow into the position.
It's not clear with Ponder. It could happen, or it might not. Drafting Elway was a no-brainer, obvious decision. Drafting Ponder at 12 was questioned by many, many people.
I don't think anyone on this board, or any fan I've ever met or heard on the radio ever argued Ponder should be as good as Newton. That's a straw man argument, which seems to be becoming the standard way of making a point on these boards lately.
No one that is commenting negatively on Ponder has changed their mind, they didn't believe in him coming out of college, and saw no reason to change their mind based on last year's play.
If Ponder didn't play well because the "fan base bashed him", which I don't agree with, btw, then he's not ready to be an NFL QB and should be cut immediately.Also, there is no right way to be a fan, so I'd appreciate not having my loytalties questioned (since I've been watching the Vikings since 1969) just because I don't agree with your opinion on any particular item. |
I don't think the poster was arguing that Ponder played "poorly" because the fans were too hard on him. I do believe that the expectations of the fans were to great. I personally think Ponder should have sat on the bench for the whole year and not played at all. I don't believe in starting rooking qb's. But he did...and frankly, he showed me enough that he should be thought of as the starting qb going into the 2012 season. |
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7793
Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I agree, now that he is on the roster, he should be the starter for the year, to see if he's growing into a top 15 starter over the next year or three or not.
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | Frank Costello wrote: | | Comparing Freeman to Ponder doesn't really work, at all. I know you were just using Freeman's sophomore season as a measuring stick. |
While I certainly haven't watched Freeman in the NFL, I watched his entire college career at K-State. I wasn't impressed. I've seen more from Ponder, from simply a leadership standpoint, than I ever saw from Freeman. Freeman may have more physical skills, but he's not a leader. |
You mean you didn't see Josh Freeman rally his team from a 10-point 4th Quarter deficit to beat the Vikings last year? His eighth 4th Quarter comeback win in less than three seasons?
Ponder by comparison was 2-8 as a starter last year, and one of those "wins" was a comeback win by Joe Webb in Washington. Which kind of brings up the other inconvenient truth about Ponder's rookie season: he had two Don Majkowski games in the space of three weeks where his 2nd-year backup stepped onto the field, played a lot better and had the team to play a lot better around him. That in itself should ring alarm bells all over the place.
Freeman and Webb have both shown the ability to lead big-time comebacks. They have both pulled off big-time upsets in games where their teams were prohibitive underdogs. Ponder hasn't done anything like that, so I don't see how anyone can say that he's shown more "leadership".
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Vikefan79
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 25060
Location: Atlanta
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: |
Freeman and Webb have both shown the ability to lead big-time comebacks. They have both pulled off big-time upsets in games where their teams were prohibitive underdogs. Ponder hasn't done anything like that, so I don't see how anyone can say that he's shown more "leadership". |
How is beating Washington a big time upset? They were as bad as we were.
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Virginia Viking
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 2452
Location: Unemployed in VA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| milanb wrote: | | disaacs wrote: | | Frank Costello wrote: | | Comparing Freeman to Ponder doesn't really work, at all. I know you were just using Freeman's sophomore season as a measuring stick. |
While I certainly haven't watched Freeman in the NFL, I watched his entire college career at K-State. I wasn't impressed. I've seen more from Ponder, from simply a leadership standpoint, than I ever saw from Freeman. Freeman may have more physical skills, but he's not a leader. |
You mean you didn't see Josh Freeman rally his team from a 10-point 4th Quarter deficit to beat the Vikings last year? His eighth 4th Quarter comeback win in less than three seasons?
Ponder by comparison was 2-8 as a starter last year, and one of those "wins" was a comeback win by Joe Webb in Washington. Which kind of brings up the other inconvenient truth about Ponder's rookie season: he had two Don Majkowski games in the space of three weeks where his 2nd-year backup stepped onto the field, played a lot better and had the team to play a lot better around him. That in itself should ring alarm bells all over the place.
Freeman and Webb have both shown the ability to lead big-time comebacks. They have both pulled off big-time upsets in games where their teams were prohibitive underdogs. Ponder hasn't done anything like that, so I don't see how anyone can say that he's shown more "leadership". |
And that's fine. Some qb's are more efficient coming off the bench than as a starter. I like Webb...I think he's a dynamic athlete, who certainly CAN rally the team around him when he comes into games. That just might be his "calling" as an NFL qb. |
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 5163
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Vikefan79 wrote: | | milanb wrote: |
Freeman and Webb have both shown the ability to lead big-time comebacks. They have both pulled off big-time upsets in games where their teams were prohibitive underdogs. Ponder hasn't done anything like that, so I don't see how anyone can say that he's shown more "leadership". |
How is beating Washington a big time upset? They were as bad as we were. |
The road win against the Eagles in 2010 was a pretty huge upset.
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