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this providence
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Ugh.
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 Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think anybody should truly be ready to give up on Ponder after his year last season. Especially now knowing they won't have a chance at either Luck of RGIII.
However, if he has a year similar or slightly better to his rookie campaign; well they better start looking in another direction IMO. |
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3639
Location: Rutgers University
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| this providence wrote: | I don't think anybody should truly be ready to give up on Ponder after his year last season. Especially now knowing they won't have a chance at either Luck of RGIII.
However, if he has a year similar or slightly better to his rookie campaign; well they better start looking in another direction IMO. |
This is more or less how I'm approaching it.
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| wcblack34 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | minnvikes22 wrote: | | ktarinze wrote: | | wcblack34 wrote: | | Uncle Buck wrote: |
One final thing. If Peyton Manning ends up in Denver, maybe we can pick up another terrific QB prospect who can battle Ponder for the starting job.  |
The Broncos are shopping Adam Weber?!? |
id take that the QB named tim tebow any day over ponder. If he takes a couple steps forward ill be shocked. |
How can say that about Ponder? The O-line sucked last. We only have 1 decent WR in Harvin. And you want to give up on him?
Anyone that thinks Joe Webb is a starting QB in this league has no clue about the game of football. NONE!!!! |
he deserves a shot more than ponder. This also ruins your argument because web had the same weapons and did better imo. So why not give him a shot first. I'm not sold on web but I will give him a shot to start before ponder |
All Webb "deserves" is a chance to compete. Whether or not he will get that remains to be seen. But to give up on Ponder after 10 games, especially when he looked promising in a couple of them, is absolutely premature. Webb has looked very good in some games, and has looked very bad in some games. I will be interested to see how he looks with a full offseason working as only a QB. |
and why does ponder deserve anything more than web they should compete but if i had to pick web would get it
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleMugen wrote: | | this providence wrote: | I don't think anybody should truly be ready to give up on Ponder after his year last season. Especially now knowing they won't have a chance at either Luck of RGIII.
However, if he has a year similar or slightly better to his rookie campaign; well they better start looking in another direction IMO. |
This is more or less how I'm approaching it. |
agreed as well
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Purple Faithful
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 2688
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ktarinze wrote: | | PurpleMugen wrote: | | this providence wrote: | I don't think anybody should truly be ready to give up on Ponder after his year last season. Especially now knowing they won't have a chance at either Luck of RGIII.
However, if he has a year similar or slightly better to his rookie campaign; well they better start looking in another direction IMO. |
This is more or less how I'm approaching it. |
agreed as well |
I think I'd look very hard at Webb in preseason. If Ponder can't put him away, he's not the QBOTF, much less a franchise QB.
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Eastern Walrus
Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 3058
Location: on safari
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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The scary thing is that most players that are put in the situation he's in (drafted and started first year) end up having a bit of a sophmore slump when they start for the entire season.
I hope Ponder produces. I'm not as concerned with how well he does but more so how many games we win
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TearsOfPurple
Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 535
Location: Mankato
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Eastern Walrus wrote: | The scary thing is that most players that are put in the situation he's in (drafted and started first year) end up having a bit of a sophmore slump when they start for the entire season.
I hope Ponder produces. I'm not as concerned with how well he does but more so how many games we win |
That's why it's safe to tell if Ponder is gone or not after his 3rd year. But impatient people will be impatient *shrug* |
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 20104
Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TearsOfPurple wrote: | | Eastern Walrus wrote: | The scary thing is that most players that are put in the situation he's in (drafted and started first year) end up having a bit of a sophmore slump when they start for the entire season.
I hope Ponder produces. I'm not as concerned with how well he does but more so how many games we win |
That's why it's safe to tell if Ponder is gone or not after his 3rd year. But impatient people will be impatient *shrug* |
It seems to me that most of these "impatient" people wanted to replace him before he even stepped foot on the field. Therefore, there's nothing that can be written to convince them to even give him a chance.
I don't think you can even consider replacing Ponder even if he has a less than stellar season this year. I think you need to give him a full 3 years before you consider moving in another direction. Therefore, I believe it won't be until after the 2013 season whether we know whether we'll have to move in another direction or not.
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PurpleMugen
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 3639
Location: Rutgers University
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | TearsOfPurple wrote: | | Eastern Walrus wrote: | The scary thing is that most players that are put in the situation he's in (drafted and started first year) end up having a bit of a sophmore slump when they start for the entire season.
I hope Ponder produces. I'm not as concerned with how well he does but more so how many games we win |
That's why it's safe to tell if Ponder is gone or not after his 3rd year. But impatient people will be impatient *shrug* |
It seems to me that most of these "impatient" people wanted to replace him before he even stepped foot on the field. Therefore, there's nothing that can be written to convince them to even give him a chance. |
Well, this is about as off-base a sweeping generalization one can make.
I myself am the perfect counter-example. My posting history attests to my giving Ponder a very fair shake from the start; in fact, I was notably positive on him. It's what I have seen from him on the field since then that has led me to believe he won't pan out into this uber-QB we so badly yearn for.
The same generalization can be made in reverse, by the way: 'Most of these supposedly "patient" posters do not want to address the negatives, so the nothing can be written to convince them to consider the opposing viewpoint. That was easy.
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Virginia Viking
Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 2458
Location: Winchester, VA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleMugen wrote: | | disaacs wrote: | | TearsOfPurple wrote: | | Eastern Walrus wrote: | The scary thing is that most players that are put in the situation he's in (drafted and started first year) end up having a bit of a sophmore slump when they start for the entire season.
I hope Ponder produces. I'm not as concerned with how well he does but more so how many games we win |
That's why it's safe to tell if Ponder is gone or not after his 3rd year. But impatient people will be impatient *shrug* |
It seems to me that most of these "impatient" people wanted to replace him before he even stepped foot on the field. Therefore, there's nothing that can be written to convince them to even give him a chance. |
Well, this is about as off-base a sweeping generalization one can make.
I myself am the perfect counter-example. My posting history attests to my giving Ponder a very fair shake from the start; in fact, I was notably positive on him. It's what I have seen from him on the field since then that has led me to believe he won't pan out into this uber-QB we so badly yearn for.The same generalization can be made in reverse, by the way: 'Most of these supposedly "patient" posters do not want to address the negatives, so the nothing can be written to convince them to consider the opposing viewpoint. That was easy. |
I don't think that Ponder will become the "Uber-QB" either. They are quite rare in the NFL. However, I think he can become a very good qb in the NFL and compete for championships with the right talent around him. You said that he didn't show you much on the field in his rookie year, however, I want to know what qb would have shown to be an uber-QB within the situation that the Vikings team was in? I can't think of any...including Brady, Brees or Manning!
As I've said before...I don't believe in starting rookie qb's, and I think the Vikings reached in drafting Ponder at #12. That being said, I strongly expect that Ponder will show marked improvement in 2012, including wins. I don't think the Vikings will be very good in 2012, but I do expect that they will be better than they were in 2011. |
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 20104
Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| PurpleMugen wrote: |
Well, this is about as off-base a sweeping generalization one can make.
I myself am the perfect counter-example. My posting history attests to my giving Ponder a very fair shake from the start; in fact, I was notably positive on him. It's what I have seen from him on the field since then that has led me to believe he won't pan out into this uber-QB we so badly yearn for.
The same generalization can be made in reverse, by the way: 'Most of these supposedly "patient" posters do not want to address the negatives, so the nothing can be written to convince them to consider the opposing viewpoint. That was easy. |
I said most, not all. However, I don't agree that you are a counter-example. You're just less impatient than some others, but still impatient nonetheless.
He's played in 11 games. Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman would have been run out of the league after 11 games if their management had followed that practice of QB evaluation.
Furthermore, there aren't many of us "patient" posters that refuse to address the negatives. We realize that there are some negatives right now, but it's still far too early to say that those negatives will continue to be negatives, because he is going through most of the pains that most QBs have to go through...even moreso in the case that he had no offseason training.
I've never, at any point, expected him to be an "uber-QB." We don't need him to be an uber-QB. We need him to be a good QB, something we haven't seen out of any young QB in ages (some would argue that Daunte was, but I can't do that, because he was limited in reading defenses).
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milanb
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 5225
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Virginia Viking wrote: |
I don't think that Ponder will become the "Uber-QB" either. They are quite rare in the NFL. However, I think he can become a very good qb in the NFL and compete for championships with the right talent around him. You said that he didn't show you much on the field in his rookie year, however, I want to know what qb would have shown to be an uber-QB within the situation that the Vikings team was in? I can't think of any...including Brady, Brees or Manning!
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Joe Webb?
Seriously. If Joe Webb can step into a game on the road against a playoff team in December and come within a horrible non-call on a facemask on the last play of the game of completing a 17-point 2nd Half comeback, then clearly the team had some potential that wasn't being realized with McNabb and Ponder at QB.
If it were just one game, fine, it could have been some sort of fluke. But two weeks later Webb stepped in for an injured Ponder in the 2nd Half on the road against Washington and led a comeback win. All this shortly after the team had watched Adrian Peterson go down with a devastating knee injury.
And that's sort of my problem with this whole Ponder-had-no-talent-around-him argument. The fact of the matter is that Joe Webb in his career has had six games in which he has seen significant playing time, and he has shown the IT Factor in three of them. Ponder has had one good game in 10 starts (the win in Carolina) with essentially the same offence around him.
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Flounda
Joined: 14 Mar 2012
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| In regards to Joe Webb, I understand where you are coming from; however, Joe Webb is only good in these situations. If Joe Webb comes off the bench as he did in both of those games the defense is not prepared for him at all. When he is starting, he cannot produce at all because the other team creates a gameplan to stop him. In the games that he has started he has always been terrible, including last year. I felt the same way you feel until I noticed this and it is very true. He is not smart enough to break down a defense, but his legs against an unprepared defense(whenever he comes in mid game) are hard to beat. |
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ArcticNorseman
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 1446
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Gents . . . it's a team game and I gotta say the QB play did nothing for the confidence of the team in 2011.
First, there was McNabb who lost all sense of accuracy and when getting to 3rd down, gawd he was horrible. And as I recall, he did nothing to keep the offense on the field the 2nd half of games - coincidentally, the Defense did nothing to help him. At the 6-game mark the team should've been 4-2 at worst last year.
The lack of peformance by the Oline and Secondary screamed - HELP! - by week 8 . . . McNabb was done, the secondary a mess and the O-line dysfunctional.
Ponder and Webb somewhat split the rest of the season, with Webb providing some impressive moments. Ponder was more accurate and consistent when facing 3rd down conversions.
I tend to view Ponder's year as serious OJT and I think he's far more mature intellectually and emotionally than most rookie QBs. Add two blockers (one being a stud LT) and one really good pass-catcher to the offense, with a full off-season and we should expect improvement.
As of today - 19 March 2012, I'll go out on a limb and say the sophmore slump his Dalton and Newton worse than it hits Ponder  |
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ktarinze
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 927
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | TearsOfPurple wrote: | | Eastern Walrus wrote: | The scary thing is that most players that are put in the situation he's in (drafted and started first year) end up having a bit of a sophmore slump when they start for the entire season.
I hope Ponder produces. I'm not as concerned with how well he does but more so how many games we win |
That's why it's safe to tell if Ponder is gone or not after his 3rd year. But impatient people will be impatient *shrug* |
It seems to me that most of these "impatient" people wanted to replace him before he even stepped foot on the field. Therefore, there's nothing that can be written to convince them to even give him a chance.
I don't think you can even consider replacing Ponder even if he has a less than stellar season this year. I think you need to give him a full 3 years before you consider moving in another direction. Therefore, I believe it won't be until after the 2013 season whether we know whether we'll have to move in another direction or not. |
Okay I can't speak for others but I said during the season to let the guy start after the cardinals game. I said give him his shot and lets see how he does. Also how come when its ponder you give him more time but when its tebow he's not a QB. So I'm up for every person to get his shot including web. Who I think deserves a shot now.
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