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2012 NFL Draft Thread V.2: All General Draft Talk (2 Days!!)
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If all prospects were available, who would you pick?

David DeCastro

[ 2 ]

Luke Kuechly

24%

[ 6 ]

Courtney Upshaw

[ 2 ]

Nick Perry

20%

[ 5 ]

Melvin Ingram

12%

[ 3 ]

Quinton Coples

[ 1 ]

Michael Floyd

12%

[ 3 ]

Mark Barron (You never know)

[ 0 ]

Whitney Mercilus

[ 0 ]

Devon Still

[ 0 ]

Michael Brockers

[ 0 ]

Fletcher Cox

[ 0 ]

Dontari Poe

[ 0 ]

Dre Kirkpatrick

[ 0 ]

Vinny Curry

[ 0 ]

Riley Rieff

[ 0 ]

Other

12%

[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 25

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SaveourSonics

Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject:

Upshaw would get murdered at our SLB position in space and doesn't have the length or burst to play LEO. No thanks.

Don't think Curry would survive in space. Much more of a LEO.
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TheOsprey

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 6552
Location: In a van, down by the river.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject:

Tatupu_64 wrote:

TheOsprey wrote:

Tatupu_64 wrote:

TheOsprey wrote:

I was just wondering, we have had a ton of discussions regarding guys like Melvin Ingram, Nick Perry, Bruce Irvin or Shea McClellin possibly playing SLB for the Seahawks, but here is another option that just came to me. What about Vinny Curry? He measured in at 6'3" 266 lbs. at the Combine, so he fits the body type. Here is some of the key workout stats and how he compared to those other players.

Curry 6.90 (3 cone) 4.44 (20yard) 32" (vert) 28 (reps)

Ingram 6.83 (3 cone) 4.18 (20 yard) 34.5" (vert) 28 (reps)

Irvin 6.70 (3 cone) 4.03 (20 yard) 33.5" (vert) 23 (reps)

McClellin 7.07 (3 cone) 4.33 (20 yard) 31.5" (vert) 19 (reps)

Perry 7.25 (3 cone) 4.66 (20 yard) 38.5" (vert) 35 (reps)

As you can see, he is very comparable to some of the other guys we have been discussing. If Ingram is gone at #12 (which is likely), would it be feasible to select Nick Perry at #12 as a LEO and then use that second round pick on Curry as a SLB? As I have said before, I love Irvin and think he is an absolute physical freak, but he just has way too many off the field red flags, for my taste. Physically, Curry is every bit as good, if not better than Shea McClellin and Curry is a much better pass rusher. They are also almost exactly the same size as well. Many of you have said that a SLB in our system would be very comparable to a 3-4 OLB. Personally, I believe that seems to describe Curry. I know I am the biggest Curry fan on the board, but I never considered him at SLB until now. What do you guys think? Could he be a SLB candidate? Imagine adding Perry in round 1 and Curry in round 2. If he did fit the criteria, talk about a fearsome pass rush! I just don't know......

Perry would be awful imo. He's strictly a LEO for us, and a great one. Curry and McClellin both are a bit of wild cards. Agility is very important, and both tested mediocre as far as agility goes. I think McClellin is a SLB for us though, where I see Curry as more a LEO.

Ingram and Irvin both really intrigue me as SLB's. Irvin showed elite change of direction, agility, and hip fluidity. I think that's his future spot. Ingram is just a really natural athlete, and showed well in agility and change of direction drills too. I think he's very promising at SLB.

Why do you see McClellin as a SLB, but not Curry? According to the data provided, Curry has him bettered in almost every category except the 20 yard dash, which is probably the least important stat of the ones listed. Curry is a tremedous pass rusher and that would be key to the position. I mean, the guy has 23 sacks and 40 Tackles for loss in the last 2 seasons! Granted, his coverage skills are completely unknown, since he was used strictly as a pass rusher, but from what I have read about him, he is a very coachable player.

Again, I just don't see Ingram being on the board, when we pick. At this point, I think Jacksonville may be all over him. With Blackmon off the board, they're likely to take the best pass rushing DE and Ingram seems to be the concensus there. As I said before, I love Irvin, but he just has too many red flags for me. From the eyeball test though, he would be far and away, the best candidate for SLB though. It's too bad, he's such a knucklehead.

Well... First off you didn't list 40 yard dashes, more specifically 10 yard splits. You don't have the 20 yard dash, you have the 20 yard short shuttle listed. That's pretty telling imo as far as a players hips go. McClellin showed notably better there. McClellin also shows much better burst.

I've seen McClellin in drills dropping into coverage, he looked very fluid.

40 yard dashes are pretty much useless, when talking about SLB's, especially in this system. How often would a SLB have to run 40 yards in the NFL? Unless a runner or receiver breaks free, they might not have to for an entire game. That is why I didn't list the 40 yard times. I didn't think they were relevant, but since you asked, I know Curry had a bad 40 time at the Combine. According to Sportsillustrated.com though, he looked like a totally different athlete at the Marshall Pro day, running a 4.67/40 and improving his vertical jump by 3 1/2 inches.

As far as 10 yard splits, that wasn't available on the NFL.com Combine page, which is where I got the stats, that I did. Since you brought this up, I looked them up with a search just now. To answer your question, according to NFLdraftscout.com Curry had a 1.58 10 yard split and according to several other sites (McClellin's 10 yard split wasn't listed on NFLdraftscout), McClellin's 10 yard split was 1.57, so they have almost identical burst off the line.

I thought the 3 cone drill would be the best indicator of a players ability to be a SLB and on that stat, Curry had McClellin beat. It's much more telling than the 20 yard shuttle, because lets face it, how often does a defender run in a perfectly straight line, in the NFL? The answer is, almost never.

As I said before, Curry's coverage skills are largely unknown, because he wasn't asked to drop into coverage. We don't know if he is any good or not. It's not like we know he's bad. We just have no clue. Besides, his main job would be pass rushing, which he excels at. If we knew he was gonna drop into coverage for a play or two, we'd just move K.J. Wright back into the SLB position and bring Curry back in when we needed a pass rush. Then again, he might be fine in coverage. We won't know, until he is asked to do it.

Tatupu_64

Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 17275
Location: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject:

Have you seen the 20 yard short shuttle? You don't run in a straight line... you change directions twice
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TheOsprey

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 6552
Location: In a van, down by the river.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject:

Tatupu_64 wrote:

Have you seen the 20 yard short shuttle? You don't run in a straight line... you change directions twice

http://youtu.be/gKwXGqPCt6I

Ummm....... that looks like he's running in a straight line, to me.

http://youtu.be/-V2Y7CD3ks4

This looks much more like a pattern a LB might actually run.

Tatupu_64

Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 17275
Location: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject:

TheOsprey wrote:

Tatupu_64 wrote:

Have you seen the 20 yard short shuttle? You don't run in a straight line... you change directions twice

http://youtu.be/gKwXGqPCt6I

Ummm....... that looks like he's running in a straight line, to me.

http://youtu.be/-V2Y7CD3ks4

This looks much more like a pattern a LB might actually run.

I'm not denying they're not both important, but again, the 20SS is ALL ABOUT CHANGE OF DIRECTION. That's vital at LB.
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Pithy Radish

Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 593
Location: In a dirt field somewhere.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject:

SaveourSonics wrote:

Upshaw would get murdered at our SLB position in space and doesn't have the length or burst to play LEO. No thanks.

Don't think Curry would survive in space. Much more of a LEO.

I'd argue that his instincts, and technique make up for his mediocre athletism. If you watch tape, you'll see on plays such as end arounds the whole defense will bite sometimes, and only Upshaw will be on the play, and he'll wreck it.

If Upshaw gets on a proper conditioning program, he could easily be 265-270 by opening day. This will translate to his speed, and movement in space.

TheOsprey

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 6552
Location: In a van, down by the river.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:54 pm Post subject:

Tatupu_64 wrote:

TheOsprey wrote:

Tatupu_64 wrote:

Have you seen the 20 yard short shuttle? You don't run in a straight line... you change directions twice

http://youtu.be/gKwXGqPCt6I

Ummm....... that looks like he's running in a straight line, to me.

http://youtu.be/-V2Y7CD3ks4

This looks much more like a pattern a LB might actually run.

I'm not denying they're not both important, but again, the 20SS is ALL ABOUT CHANGE OF DIRECTION. That's vital at LB.

I agree, but the 3 cone drill shows the exact same change of direction, with the element of cutting, footwork, balance and attention to detail, added in.

SaveourSonics

Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 45445
Location: Sleepless in Seattle

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject:

Pithy Radish wrote:

SaveourSonics wrote:

Upshaw would get murdered at our SLB position in space and doesn't have the length or burst to play LEO. No thanks.

Don't think Curry would survive in space. Much more of a LEO.

And you're assuming that the only role he would have as our SLB is to rush the passer and play at the LOS. At the end of the day, he's still a LB, and he'll still be asked to play in coverage at times. He has extremely stiff hips and I don't care how good his instincts are, he'd fail in that role and we'd be exposed.

I can guarantee we won't take him at #12, that's for sure.
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imani

Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 21915
Location: Harlem, NY

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:47 am Post subject:

http://12thmanrising.com/2012/04/16/expect-seahawks-to-be-busy-trading-on-draft-day/

Draft day trades may be a bit more than 12th man pipe dream, Keith Myers has the details (again, more filler to tide you over)

Quote:

The Seahawks have only 6 picks in this years draft. They’re without their 5th and 7th round picks, though they did get a 7th from the Raiders as a part of the Aaron Curry trade. GM John Scheider has said that he wants to pick 8 or 9 players each year, so clearly moves are likely to be made.

The easiest way to acquire more picks is to trade down in the early rounds, and that is what I believe the Seahawks will do. There has been a lot written about exactly who the Seahawks will pick at #12. I’ve written about it quite a number of times, but I honestly think that all those words will be for naught.
If I was a betting man, I’d wager a decent sum of cash that the Seahawks will trade down in the First round and get additional picks. Some player will be sitting there at 12 that a team will want to move up for, be it DeCastro, or Coples, or Ingram, or Kirkpatrick, or Kuechly. Maybe even all 5. There should definitely be someone willing to give up a decent haul to move up and make sure they get their guy.
And thus Seahawks will likely move down. I could even seem them dropping down multiple times, right out of the first round, especially if they can acquire a first round pick for next year in the process.
Why drop so far? Because the Seahawks can without it really hurting their draft plan. Perhaps the best OLB in this year class (at least in terms of fitting the Seahawk’s very unique defensive system) is Levante David, who should still be available when the Seahawks pick in round 2. David is an outstanding Strong Side LB prospect who looks to be a faster version of KJ Wright, and would allow Wright to move inside to Middle Linebacker

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imani

Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 21915
Location: Harlem, NY

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:53 am Post subject:

Important***

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2012/04/16/seahawks-pre-draft-visit-tracker/

Pre-draft Visits seattle has had so far, quick write-ups, measurables and a few new players added to this list posted previously

Quote:

Devin Aguliar, WR, Washington – Source: Twitter. At 5-11, 200 pounds, Aguliar is a late-round prospect who has shown ability as an inside receiver.

Josh Bellamy, WR-CB, Louisville – Source: Scout.com. At 6-0, 205 pounds, Bellamy also can play corner, and ran at 4.42 in the 40-yard dash at his pro day.

Will Blackwell, DL, LSU – Source: Twitter. At 6-4, 314 pounds, Blackwell was a first-team, All-SEC selection as a left guard for LSU.

Ron Brooks, CB, LSU – Source: Scout.com. At 5-10, 190 pounds, Brocks is an experienced corner who played in a lot of LSU’s nickel and dime packages.

Michael Brockers, DL, LSU – Source: Scout.com. Brockers is a beast against the run at 6-foot-6, 322 pounds, but sill has room to develop as a pass rusher.

Lamont Bryant, TE, Morgan State – Source: Twitter. At 6-5 and 225 pounds, Bryant appears to be more of an H-back with good athleticism.

Derek Carrier, WR-TE, Beloit – Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Another big receiver who can run.

Derrick Coleman, RB, UCLA – Source: Detroit Free Press. At 5-11 and 230 pounds, Coleman ran for 765 yards and a team-high 11 touchdowns his senior season. Coleman also is hard of hearing.

Matt Conrath, DL, Virginia – Source: Scout.com. At 6-8 and 290 pounds, Conrath is a big dude who likes he would be a perfect fit at 5-tech defensive end. Conrath was a first-team, All-ACC selection who finished with 64 tackles and blocked three field goals at Virginia.

Claude Davis, DE, University of South Florida. Source: Tampa Bay Times. At 6-2, 235 pounds, Davis finished with six sacks his senior season.

Donnie Fletcher, CB, Boston College – Source: Twitter. At 6-1, 200 pounds, Fletcher fits the prototype as a big cover who can press for the Seahawks. Fletcher finished with 35 tackles, five pass breakups and two interceptions in 2011 for the Eagles.

Brandon Hardin, CB, Oregon State – Source: Scout.com. Hardin missed all of last season because of shoulder surgery, but at 6-2 and 220 pounds, teams like his size and speed.

Chandler Harnish, QB, Northern Illinois – Source: Twitter. Harnish doesn’t have prototypical size at 6-2 and 220 pounds, but he threw for 3,216 yards, 28 touchdowns and six interceptions for NIU as a senior.

Justin Helwege, WR, Central Washington – Source: Twitter. Hewege finished with 51 receptions for 717 yards and eight touchdowns as a senior. A big receiver at 6-5, 218 pounds.

George Iioka, S, Boise State – Source: Twitter. They already have Jeron Johnson, so why not add his backfield mate Iioka. At 6-4, 225 pounds, Iioka would be a nice backup for Kam Chancellor.

Jeremy Lane, DB, Northwestern State – Source: NFLMocks.com. At 5-11, 180 pounds, Lane is a track athlete who played press corner at Division II Northwestern State.

Logwone Mitz, RB, Washington State – Source: Seahawks.com. The son of former Seahawks defensive end Alonzo Mitz.

Jon Opperud, OT, Montana – Source: Twitter. At 6-7 and 300 pounds, the Portland, Oregon native is likely a tackle prospect at the next level.

Nathan Palmer, WR, Northern Illinois – Source: Twitter. At 5-11 and 197 pounds, Palmer finished with 47 catches for 695 yards and seven touchdowns in his senior season at Northern Illinois.

David Paulson, TE, Oregon – Source: Twitter. At 6-3 and 246 pounds, Paulson prepped at nearby Auburn-Riverside High and is considered more of an H-back.

Brian Quick, WR, Appalachian State – Source: Twitter. At 6-3 and 222 pounds, Quick is an explosive route runner with good ball skills.

Mike Ryan, OT, Connecticut – Source: NFL.com. At 6-5, 328 pounds, Ryan can move and has pretty good feet.

DeShawn Shead, SS, Portland State – Source: The Oregonian. At 6-1, 220 pounds Shead ran in the mid 4.5s in the 40-yard dash at his pro day and posted a 38-inch vertical jump.

Brad Smelley, TE, Alabama – Source: Twitter. At 6-3 and 230 pounds, he looks like more of a movement tight end.

Korey Toomer, LB, Idaho – Source: NFL.com. Toomer ran a 4.53 and 4.55 40-yard times at his pro day, and posted a 42-inch vertical jump.

Danny Trevathan, LB, Kentucky – Source: Twitter. Trevathan is in the Malcolm Smith mold as a speedy outside linebacker.

Lavasier Tuinei, WR, Oregon — Source: Twitter. At 6-5, 209 pounds, Tuinei is a big receiver that can stretch defenses vertically.

Bobby Wagner, LB, Utah State – Source: Scout.com. At 6-foot and 241 pounds, an instinctive linebacker and good tackler with better-than-average coverage skills.

Renard Williams, DT, Eastern Washington — Source: Twitter. At 6-1 and 302 pounds, Williams has some pass-rush ability from inside. Played locally at South Kitsap High in Port Orchard, Wash.

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TheOsprey

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 6552
Location: In a van, down by the river.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:39 am Post subject:

imani wrote:

Quote:

Trading down would make me happy. I could see a team like the Giants trading up to #12 if Kuechly is still on the board and we could trade down, adding picks and still being able to get the best LEO prospect in the entire draft (in my opinion), Vinny Curry. I still think K.J. Wright has a very bright future at either MLB or WLB, so I don't think Kuechly is a player we absolutely have to take.

outside_Insider

Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1196
Location: Calgary, AB

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject:

Giants would have to give up two 1sts and a second for 12, I think.

I thought this article was funny:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8285ec25/article/at-28-brandon-weeden-asks-teams-to-ignore-his-age

Isn't that kind of what most Latin defectors ask of MLB? Or, I'm sure a lot of women would love to pull this card, "Just pretend I'm 22."
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TheOsprey

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 6552
Location: In a van, down by the river.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject:

outside_Insider wrote:

The age thing with Weeden, doesn't bother me a bit. If you believe he is a franchise QB, you take him. All the age means is that you have a shorter window with him, to accomplish your goals. If you're 75% confident that Weeden is a franchise QB and you're only 50% confident in the next QB on your board, you don't pass up on Weeden, because the next guy is younger. Confused

You take the guy you have the most confidence in. Wouldn't it be better to draft a franchise QB who might only have an 8-10 year NFL career, than to completely miss on another, younger guy? I'm certainly not saying Weeden is a franchise guy, because his decision making, scares me to death at times. He can make all the throws, but his field vision is very questionable at times. I'm simply referring to him as a "franchise" QB in this discussion as a "what if", to adress the age issue.

outside_Insider

Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1196
Location: Calgary, AB

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject:

Let's make a deal:

Quote:

Mark Barron - DB - Player
CSN New England's Tom Curran is hearing from multiple sources that the Patriots would target Alabama S Mark Barron if they made a trade to move up in the draft.
The Pats certainly have a need opposite Patrick Chung. They also have the ammo to trade up from No. 27, but they would have to give up quite a bit to move in front of the Cowboys at No. 14. As SI.com's Peter King suggested early in the week, Barron's stock is steadily on the rise.
Related: Patriots
Source: CSN New England

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outside_Insider

Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 1196
Location: Calgary, AB

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:51 pm Post subject:

TheOsprey wrote:

outside_Insider wrote:

In my humble opinion, you can't grade him next to guy's from his class though. While he may have the same game experiences. You almost have to grade him vs other 26 year old QBs in the NFL.
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