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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12442
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: 1st Mock of the Year: Better late than never... |
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I've been criticizing everyone else's mocks, now feel free to trash mine...
1st Round:
Nick Perry, DE, USC
6'3 271 lbs.
The best pass rusher in the draft IMHO. Adding another dynamic pass rusher to compliment Dunlap and Geno will help our secondary much more than adding a rookie CB.
1st Round:
Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
6'2 211 lbs.
Aside from Michael Floyd and Justin Blackmon, I think Sanu would compliment AJ Green the best in this draft. He's physical, he's versatile and can kill it on the short-intermediate routes in the WCO. Think John Taylor.
2nd Round:
Jamell Fleming, CB, Oklahoma
5'11 206 lbs.
One of my favorite CB prospects in the draft. He's not a shutdown corner, but much like Hall he'll allow some passes but he'll break up even more. I like Hosley and Heyward as well, but I think Fleming can support the run better.
3rd Round:
LaMichael James, RB, Oregon
5'8 194 lbs.
Speed is what we need at the RB position. Would help to have another explosive skill position player other than just AJ Green on the offense.
4th Round:
Antonio Allen, S, South Carolina
6'2 210 lbs.
My favorite safety prospect in the draft. He is being completely over looked in this draft but this guy is always around the ball. A sure tackler as well.
5th Round:
Lucas Nix, OG, Pittsburgh
6'5 317 lbs.
Comes in to compete for the starting RG position.
5th Round:
Derek Wolfe, DT, Cincinnati
6'5 295 lbs.
Local guy that is a great value pick. He might not last this long, but he's being listed as a 4th-5th round player on most draft sites still so it's possible.
5th Round:
Junior Hemingway, WR, Michigan
6'1 225 lbs.
More competition at the WR position. Very under-rated measurables, who killed it in the 3 cone drill. That change of direction ability could come in handy.
6th Round:
Frank Alexander, DE, Oklahoma
6'4 270 lbs.
BPA. Even though we drafted Perry, we draft Frank Alexander as well. Injures tend to pile up on the D-Line so you can never have enough depth there...
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ochocinco4pres
Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 21369
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I like parts. But Sanu in the first is a reach. Him in the 2nd would great.
I like the rest of it though
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12442
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ochocinco4pres wrote: | I like parts. But Sanu in the first is a reach. Him in the 2nd would great.
I like the rest of it though |
I figured that would get criticized the most.
I'm a big fan of Sanu and while I like other receivers like AJ Jenkins, TY Hilton, Mavin McNutt, etc... I think Sanu would be the best WR to play opposite AJ Green. I think he'll go early 2nd round, so if we want him we'll have to take him in the 1st. Also he's one of those receivers that on a 3rd and 8, you get him the ball 4-5 yards past the LOS, he'll get those extra 3-4 yards to get the 1st...
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Anonymous3
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 775
Location: Indiana University
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Sanu would be a horrible pick. Trade back and taking him would be okay, but he's honestly my least favorite top four round WR prospect. Taking him at 21 would make my head explode.
Flemming is also a little too early, but I'm fine with it because I think he fits what we like on CBs perfectly and I think we could develop him into a solid starting RCB
Would not take a SS in this class not named Mark Barron. Allen would have a hard time making our roster, let alone garnering playing time.
Derek Wolfe might make it out of round three..no way he drops out of round four, especially all the way to our pick
And last, a fifth round rookie G will not compete with Boling and Bell to start. another long-shot to make the roster unless he's more effective at LG than Hudson.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12442
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous3 wrote: | Sanu would be a horrible pick. Trade back and taking him would be okay, but he's honestly my least favorite top four round WR prospect. Taking him at 21 would make my head explode.
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We'll have to agree to disagree on Sanu.
| Anonymous3 wrote: |
Flemming is also a little too early, but I'm fine with it because I think he fits what we like on CBs perfectly and I think we could develop him into a solid starting RCB
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I think he's pretty polished already. Of course he'll have his rookie struggles but he's been the best CB on the Sooners for a couple of seasons now.
| Anonymous3 wrote: |
Would not take a SS in this class not named Mark Barron. Allen would have a hard time making our roster, let alone garnering playing time.
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Has there ever been a draft where only 1 SS prospect comes out of it? What are you issues with Allen's game? He's been consistently good in every South Carolina game I've watched.
| Anonymous3 wrote: |
Derek Wolfe might make it out of round three..no way he drops out of round four, especially all the way to our pick
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It's a deep DT class. There will definitely be someone that falls to that spot, whether it's Wolfe or another promising DT. I would use the selection on one of them to build depth on the D-Line.
| Anonymous3 wrote: |
And last, a fifth round rookie G will not compete with Boling and Bell to start. another long-shot to make the roster unless he's more effective at LG than Hudson. |
Because Boling and Bell are so great? Mid-late rounds is where you draft RG's. I think you are getting to caught up in what round a player is drafted in...
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johndeere1707
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 5283
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I like it for the most part. I like Sanu alot and I would rather have a possession type receiver anyway
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Anonymous3
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 775
Location: Indiana University
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| TheVillain112 wrote: | | Anonymous3 wrote: |
Would not take a SS in this class not named Mark Barron. Allen would have a hard time making our roster, let alone garnering playing time.
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Has there ever been a draft where only 1 SS prospect comes out of it? What are you issues with Allen's game? He's been consistently good in every South Carolina game I've watched. |
I saw a prospect who struggled in coverage and isn't strong enough to be consistently counted on to step-up in the box in the NFL. He looks good in college, but it doesn't translate well. And the Bengals need their SSs to be able to shift to FS on a dime. He can't do that...Barron would have a hard enough time as it is, let alone a prospect two steps below his level.
| TheVillian112 wrote: | | Anonymous3 wrote: |
And last, a fifth round rookie G will not compete with Boling and Bell to start. another long-shot to make the roster unless he's more effective at LG than Hudson. |
Because Boling and Bell are so great? Mid-late rounds is where you draft RG's. I think you are getting to caught up in what round a player is drafted in... |
Never said they were great, but what makes you think a rookie, who's talent is worth a fifth round pick (I use rounds as a means to gauge talent and ability to start right away, which if Nix could, he wouldn't be a fifth rounder) will start over a third round pick the previous year or an NFL vet with 100+ starts? Realistically, we could take a G in rounds 1-3 that will come in and compete to start, and any round past that is just an upgrade over Hudson at back-up LG.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12442
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous3 wrote: | | I saw a prospect who struggled in coverage and isn't strong enough to be consistently counted on to step-up in the box in the NFL. He looks good in college, but it doesn't translate well. And the Bengals need their SSs to be able to shift to FS on a dime. He can't do that...Barron would have a hard enough time as it is, let alone a prospect two steps below his level. |
Don't see how Antonio Allen can't consistently step up in the box. And I have more faith in Allen playing FS than Barron. I love how early in the process Barron isn't anything special and now he's the best thing since slice bread. The media is hyping up Barron wayyyyy to much (compared to other safeties). Just like how Trent Richardson is soo much better than any other running back, which is utter bs. Look at all the comments about Barron early in the process. I was one of the ones that defended him and called him a first round prospect and liked him for us. I still do, but Antonio Allen is much better value. Plus I'll take a pass rusher like Nick Perry over a SS like Barron 10 times out of 10.
| Anonymous3 wrote: |
Never said they were great, but what makes you think a rookie, who's talent is worth a fifth round pick (I use rounds as a means to gauge talent and ability to start right away, which if Nix could, he wouldn't be a fifth rounder) will start over a third round pick the previous year or an NFL vet with 100+ starts? Realistically, we could take a G in rounds 1-3 that will come in and compete to start, and any round past that is just an upgrade over Hudson at back-up LG. |
What round a person is drafted in means squat. Geno Atkins was a 5th round pick, you don't think he deserved to start over Tank Johnson when he came in? There are UDFA players that start every year. I think last year or the year before there were 17 or so UDFA players in the Pro Bowl. I've seen 3ish Pittsburgh games this season to specifically watch Nix, and he's pretty stout. After watching Boling at UGA and starting for us last season, I see no reason why Nix can't compete with Boling...
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Anonymous3
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 775
Location: Indiana University
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| TheVillain112 wrote: | | Anonymous3 wrote: | | I saw a prospect who struggled in coverage and isn't strong enough to be consistently counted on to step-up in the box in the NFL. He looks good in college, but it doesn't translate well. And the Bengals need their SSs to be able to shift to FS on a dime. He can't do that...Barron would have a hard enough time as it is, let alone a prospect two steps below his level. |
Don't see how Antonio Allen can't consistently step up in the box. And I have more faith in Allen playing FS than Barron. I love how early in the process Barron isn't anything special and now he's the best thing since slice bread. The media is hyping up Barron wayyyyy to much (compared to other safeties). Just like how Trent Richardson is soo much better than any other running back, which is utter bs. Look at all the comments about Barron early in the process. I was one of the ones that defended him and called him a first round prospect and liked him for us. I still do, but Antonio Allen is much better value. Plus I'll take a pass rusher like Nick Perry over a SS like Barron 10 times out of 10. |
Won't argue that..But I've liked Barron since the beginning, and think he's one of the few Alabama players that will have success in the NFL. He's only being so hyped up because of the drop off in talent after him. You have another Zbikowski (sp?) and a bunch of career backups who may start a few years down the line. I'd take Barron or ignore the position completely. Either ride with Barron or ride with Mays, Sands and Miles. Take one later as a ST guy, maybe.
| TheVillian112 wrote: | | Anonymous3 wrote: |
Never said they were great, but what makes you think a rookie, who's talent is worth a fifth round pick (I use rounds as a means to gauge talent and ability to start right away, which if Nix could, he wouldn't be a fifth rounder) will start over a third round pick the previous year or an NFL vet with 100+ starts? Realistically, we could take a G in rounds 1-3 that will come in and compete to start, and any round past that is just an upgrade over Hudson at back-up LG. |
What round a person is drafted in means squat. Geno Atkins was a 5th round pick, you don't think he deserved to start over Tank Johnson when he came in? There are UDFA players that start every year. I think last year or the year before there were 17 or so UDFA players in the Pro Bowl. I've seen 3ish Pittsburgh games this season to specifically watch Nix, and he's pretty stout. After watching Boling at UGA and starting for us last season, I see no reason why Nix can't compete with Boling... |
Actually, the round they were drafted in means a lot. There are rules, and there are expections to these rules. Undrafted players actually have a better success rate than most 5th-7th round picks. We're talking about a 5th rounder here, not an UDFA. The VAST majority of top players in this league are 1st and 2nd round picks.
Atkins was a fourth round pick with 1st/2nd round talent who happened to slide and we jumped all over it. We got lucky in that scenario, and yes he was better than Tank, but DT is much different because of the rotation...A starter may start, but actually take less snaps than their back-up due to scheme and how games turn out (i.e. a pass-rushing UT will play less if we suck and are coming from behind when teams will just run the ball). A G will start no matter what the scenario of the game is. Boling/Bell are better Gs than Tank is a DT anyway, and Atkins is a way, waaaaaaay better prospect than Nix is. Comparing apples to oranges really.
And once again, rounds as a gauge for talent and ability to contribute immediately How many of those UDFA were Pro Bowlers their rookie season? Nix is not talented enough to beat out Boling and not experienced enough to beat out Bell. Does not translate to LG, so he won't beat out Hudson. Tons of UDFAs come in and make an impact, but 90% of them make that impact 2-3 years down the road and are able to stick on the roster the first year or two without producing or playing. I can't see Nix beating out those guys.
I'd love to hear these 17 undrafted Pro Bowlers in one year...I'd like to hear 10...
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12442
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous3 wrote: |
Actually, the round they were drafted in means a lot. There are rules, and there are expections to these rules. Undrafted players actually have a better success rate than most 5th-7th round picks. We're talking about a 5th rounder here, not an UDFA. The VAST majority of top players in this league are 1st and 2nd round picks.
Atkins was a fourth round pick with 1st/2nd round talent who happened to slide and we jumped all over it. We got lucky in that scenario, and yes he was better than Tank, but DT is much different because of the rotation...A starter may start, but actually take less snaps than their back-up due to scheme and how games turn out (i.e. a pass-rushing UT will play less if we suck and are coming from behind when teams will just run the ball). A G will start no matter what the scenario of the game is. Boling/Bell are better Gs than Tank is a DT anyway, and Atkins is a way, waaaaaaay better prospect than Nix is. Comparing apples to oranges really.
And once again, rounds as a gauge for talent and ability to contribute immediately How many of those UDFA were Pro Bowlers their rookie season? Nix is not talented enough to beat out Boling and not experienced enough to beat out Bell. Does not translate to LG, so he won't beat out Hudson. Tons of UDFAs come in and make an impact, but 90% of them make that impact 2-3 years down the road and are able to stick on the roster the first year or two without producing or playing. I can't see Nix beating out those guys.
I'd love to hear these 17 undrafted Pro Bowlers in one year...I'd like to hear 10... |
| Quote: |
The 23 undrafted free agents in this year's Pro Bowl include Tramon Williams, Cameron Wake, Miles Austin, Wes Welker, James Harrison...
http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter/statuses/64460250241175554
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Sorry 23 not 17. Supports my point even more. You are right about Geno, not sure why I keep thinking 5th round for him.
Also experience alone doesn't make Bell better than Nix. Bell was horrid for the Rams, who had one of the worst if not they worst O-Line in the NFL last season. I almost rather have Livings than Bell starting on our O-Line. As for Boling, the comment I made was that Nix would "compete" for a starting position not outright win it. There is nothing that Boling has done so far to prove that he deserves the starting RG position...
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Anonymous3
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 775
Location: Indiana University
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| TheVillain112 wrote: | Sorry 23 not 17. Supports my point even more. You are right about Geno, not sure why I keep thinking 5th round for him.
Also experience alone doesn't make Bell better than Nix. Bell was horrid for the Rams, who had one of the worst if not they worst O-Line in the NFL last season. I almost rather have Livings than Bell starting on our O-Line. As for Boling, the comment I made was that Nix would "compete" for a starting position not outright win it. There is nothing that Boling has done so far to prove that he deserves the starting RG position... |
23..wow..wonder how many were reserves though. And seeing Miles Austin there makes me laugh, the Pro Bowl is a joke lol. But, nonetheless, suprised by the amount.
And you keep taking my words out of context. I never said Bell was better. But, experience makes it 100x more likely he'd stick on the roster over Nix, especially if we start Boling, a second year player. Nix may give Boling a run for his money, but at the end of the day we took him in the third round for a reason and unless a top talent at G is available, we won't be looking to replace him already. It's unfair, imo, to not give Boling a shot unless you land DeCastro, Glenn, Osemele, etc.
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12442
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Anonymous3 wrote: | 23..wow..wonder how many were reserves though. And seeing Miles Austin there makes me laugh, the Pro Bowl is a joke lol. But, nonetheless, suprised by the amount.
And you keep taking my words out of context. I never said Bell was better. But, experience makes it 100x more likely he'd stick on the roster over Nix, especially if we start Boling, a second year player. Nix may give Boling a run for his money, but at the end of the day we took him in the third round for a reason and unless a top talent at G is available, we won't be looking to replace him already. It's unfair, imo, to not give Boling a shot unless you land DeCastro, Glenn, Osemele, etc. |
Boling was a 4th round pick. If a guy we draft in the 5th round this year is better, he should definitely get the start instead. I hope Boling steps up and earns the spot but from what I've seen of Nix, I think he can definitely compete with Boling for the starting RG position. Bell should be cut in camp...
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Jason_Bengal_Fl
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Posts: 3218
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Well, I do like the 3rd round pick and the first 2 5th rounders.
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Spartan300
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 587
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Didn't Kiper recently mock Wolfe to the Pats in the 1st? |
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THE DUKE
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 14262
Location: Centerville, OH
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartan300 wrote: | | Didn't Kiper recently mock Wolfe to the Pats in the 1st? |
Yes, he had McClelin at 27 and Wolfe at 31 for the Pats in Mock 3.0
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