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wackywabbit
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 3871
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 Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| He certainly looks the part of an NFL O-lineman. There's definitely talent here to develop into a nice guard or even a tackle in time. However, he could use some development, and I'm not sure he will be our day one starter even at guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jah Reid beat him out, if Reid approached this offseason as well as we hope we did. |
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GaTechRavens
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 15685
Location: Knoxville, TN
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| b-rave11 wrote: | I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ozzie newsome and company are better at evaluating talent then all of us combined so we should probably all just shut our mouths and accept the fact that Ozzie will pick more good players then we ever could.
I used to get really pissed when the Ravens picked someone who I didn't want. Flacco over Brohm? nonsense, delaware is a joke. picking jimmy smith when we had no pass rush opposite Suggs? OMG ozzie do you actually ever look at our needs? This year...not trading up for Decastro? Couldn't have picked a worse time to trade down.
Most of the time I am wrong, so I am going to put my trust in ozzie that this guy will be a good guard for us. |
Same here. After obsessing over Mark Clayton, Winston Justice, Leodis McKelvin, Everette Brown and Brandon Graham, I realized that I probably shouldn't be forming opinions on these things.
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| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | I'd much rather be in our position now than the Ravens, that's for sure. |
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DontTazeMeBro
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 20678
Location: 321
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| b-rave11 wrote: | I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Ozzie newsome and company are better at evaluating talent then all of us combined so we should probably all just shut our mouths and accept the fact that Ozzie will pick more good players then we ever could.
I used to get really pissed when the Ravens picked someone who I didn't want. Flacco over Brohm? nonsense, delaware is a joke. picking jimmy smith when we had no pass rush opposite Suggs? OMG ozzie do you actually ever look at our needs? This year...not trading up for Decastro? Couldn't have picked a worse time to trade down.
Most of the time I am wrong, so I am going to put my trust in ozzie that this guy will be a good guard for us. |
There was also Michael Oher over Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Clay Matthews, and Vontae Davis. Mark Clayton over Roddy White. Chris Chester and Yamon Figurs weren't good picks. Ozzie is great but he isn't God.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10033
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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I can't say Osemele wins the starting spot over Reid, but I do know we have two guys in Reid and Osemele who shouldn't be getting walked back into the QB.
I think a lot of issues with Osemele in that Oklahoma tape was leverage. You can see the strength on display. Once he gets his hands on a guy and has the positioning you look for- the guy is stonewalled in pass pro. But at LT, his feet are too slow and he's consistently trying to overcompensate for that, thus becoming off balance, and thus ruining any opportunity he has to gain leverage.
I found these points from Charlie Campbell's (walterfootball) coverage of the senior bowl to be interesting:
| Charlie Campbell wrote: | 1/25. Iowa State offensive tackle/guard Kelechi Osemele had a good practice. He put Winn into the ground with a near pancake block. Osemele also mirrored a speed rush from Penn State defensive end Jack Crawford.
1/24. Overall Cincinnati defensive end Derek Wolfe showed well in the one-on-ones. It started slowly when he got pushed around in an ugly fashion by Iowa State tackle/guard Kelechi Osemele. Osemele shoved Wolfe off balance and into the ground. Wolfe bull rushed Penn State's Johnnie Troutman on one rep to get a win. In the rematch Wolfe beat Troutman with a speed rush around the edge. Wolfe beat Washington offensive tackle Senio Kelemete with a bull rush.
Osemele had an impressive win when he stopped a spin move dead in its tracks from Marshall's Vinny Curry. After a tough opening day, Osemele played much better on Tuesday. |
EDIT: Further here is an interview of Osemele done from the senior bowl. I have to say I came away impressed. He seems like he has a great head on his shoulders and his potential (I know I keep saying this) is as an All Pro talent inside at OG. There are probably 5 guys with All Pro potential that I see in this draft: DeCastro (easily due to his elite level agility), Kevin Zeitler, Cordy Glenn, Kelechi Osemele, and Brandon Brooks. We didn't get one of the top 3 guys but I don't think the dropoff in potential is very far at all. I think the difference in the top 5 has to do with their current ability and pro-readiness. DeCastro and Zeitler are IMO the two most pro-ready OG talents and both were guys that I could see reaching an All Pro caliber level with the minimal improvements to their game (adjusting to NFL speed and adjusting to better competition) but they have the least holes in their game. The other 3 are all big guys with a lot of potential inside at guard- Glenn and Osemele's potential and athleticism is quite similar... I just view Glenn as being the more pro-ready talent. He's probably sandwiched in between that level of Zeitler/DeCastro and Osemele/Brooks.
But I also think Osemele has the better potential than Brooks. He has 36" arms and had the longest hand measurement at the combine IIRC. At that length he bench pressed a mean 36 reps... that's incredible strength when you consider longer length usually mean decreased strength.
Cordy Glenn does have better feet IMO. I think Glenn has some LT versatility whereas I don't see that same short area lateral ability with Osemele. But I don't know if there is a stronger OL in the draft than Osemele and that elite level strength gives him the potential you look for in an OG. I don't know who wins the LG competition between Osemele and Reid, but one thing is for sure... with both players be near or at 6'7" with great length... with a 6'8" McKinnie along the left side that's A LOT of length you'd have to get past to get pass Flacco's blindside- that's for sure.
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Blind arrogance sows the field of it's own destruction. - Commander Greil, Fire Emblem |
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| I really like Osemele Where we took him. The guy has a ton of potential. I love his long arms. He has longer arms than Matt Kalil and Mike Adams and put up better bench press numbers. This is a great guy to have at guard. I really doubt if he's ever going to be a LT for us, but as a guard, I think he's going to be really good. If we work on his technique and leverage, we might have ourselves an upgrade over Grubbs. The only thing I really don't like is that some have questioned his work ethic and passion for the game which is something I really hate from any prospect. From his combine though he seems like he will hit the weight room, so maybe it's a bit overblown and being in the NFL will straighten that out. |
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RAVINGMADD
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 2503
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: |
But I also think Osemele has the better potential than Brooks. He has 36" arms and had the longest hand measurement at the combine IIRC. At that length he bench pressed a mean 36 reps... that's incredible strength when you consider longer length usually mean decreased strength.
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It doesn't mean decreased strength really. It's just harder to bench press a lot of reps because each time you have to take the bar further to extend your arms and you have less leverage than guys with shorter arms. I think he only did 32 reps at the combine, but that's still really good considering his long arms. |
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10033
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| RAVINGMADD wrote: | | diamondbull424 wrote: |
But I also think Osemele has the better potential than Brooks. He has 36" arms and had the longest hand measurement at the combine IIRC. At that length he bench pressed a mean 36 reps... that's incredible strength when you consider longer length usually mean decreased strength.
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It doesn't mean decreased strength really. It's just harder to bench press a lot of reps because each time you have to take the bar further to extend your arms and you have less leverage than guys with shorter arms. I think he only did 32 reps at the combine, but that's still really good considering his long arms. |
You are arguining semantics here... But I'll play, when muscle fibers are more condensed it gives them the potential to explode more with increased force potential in a short area. It's why in sports you'll see more players in sports below 6"0" with 40" verticals than guys above that height. It's why guys over that size that can explode are so coveted. Look at sprinters, the fastest players are usually in that 6'0" or below area. Muscle strength is more related to dense muscle fibers. A more compact muscle is usually a stronger muscle. The thing that can be argued however is that longer limbs equal the potential for bigger muscles. If those longer limbs are able to achieve similar density to their compact cousins, then it has the potential to produce freakish results. A smaller muscle can never be "stronger" than a bigger muscle.. In terms of stored energy, however strength is usually measured not in stored energy, but in energy impact (amongst other things). Small condense running backs like Ray Rice and MJD are usually considered to be so effective because of their energy impact. Like I said, you're argument was one of semantics.
Science aside, Osemele with his long length and his strength (he bench pressed 36 at his pro day) is a freak in that respect. And hearing him interview I got a strong impression from the guy. Obviously that doesn't equate work ethic but he didn't turn me off. Usually from watching interviews you can sort of tell if a guy isn't passionate about the game... He seemed passionate. I'm looking forward to seeing this guy compete at guard. He was dominant at the senior bowl when moved inside. He could very well become the most dominant offensive lineman from this draft... If he reaches his potential and gets his technique where it needs to be. We're also paying him substantially less than a 1st round guard. For our sake I definitely hope he reaches that ceiling.
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Blind arrogance sows the field of it's own destruction. - Commander Greil, Fire Emblem |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5886
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| After doing a bit more research I'm less worried about Osemele's fit at OG in a zone-blocking system, as long as the staff is is able to correct his footwork issues. That's what gave me the impression that he wasn't very athletic but now I think it was just a result of poor technique. I still wouldn't want to see him on either edge protecting the QB but inside I like him a lot. The biggest thing is making sure the staff is able to coach him up. Even after starting 43 games in a row he's still raw and I'm not sure if he's going to be able to overtake Reid at LG this season. No matter who starts the running game is going to get a nice boost though. |
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Integrity
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3878
Location: Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | After doing a bit more research I'm less worried about Osemele's fit at OG in a zone-blocking system, as long as the staff is is able to correct his footwork issues. That's what gave me the impression that he wasn't very athletic but now I think it was just a result of poor technique. I still wouldn't want to see him on either edge protecting the QB but inside I like him a lot. The biggest thing is making sure the staff is able to coach him up. Even after starting 43 games in a row he's still raw and I'm not sure if he's going to be able to overtake Reid at LG this season. No matter who starts the running game is going to get a nice boost though. |
No question Osemele is better suited to play guard rather then tackle, but in a pinch he could slide over and play on the outside. Just like the Gradkowski pick, I like his versatility.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 10033
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Integrity wrote: | | coordinator0 wrote: | | After doing a bit more research I'm less worried about Osemele's fit at OG in a zone-blocking system, as long as the staff is is able to correct his footwork issues. That's what gave me the impression that he wasn't very athletic but now I think it was just a result of poor technique. I still wouldn't want to see him on either edge protecting the QB but inside I like him a lot. The biggest thing is making sure the staff is able to coach him up. Even after starting 43 games in a row he's still raw and I'm not sure if he's going to be able to overtake Reid at LG this season. No matter who starts the running game is going to get a nice boost though. |
No question Osemele is better suited to play guard rather then tackle, but in a pinch he could slide over and play on the outside. Just like the Gradkowski pick, I like his versatility. |
Agreed. The Ravens, like the Patriots, are two teams that really like to draft players for their versatility.
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Blind arrogance sows the field of it's own destruction. - Commander Greil, Fire Emblem |
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FlaccoForever
Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Joe meets K.O.:
| Quote: | Baltimore Ravens
Joe Flacco met G/T Kelechi Osemele in the cafeteria this afternoon. He shook hands with him and said, "That's a big hand."
4 minutes ago Reply Retweet Favorite 7 |
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Rayvens52
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 910
Location: Vegas
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. X wrote: | Hate it, Hate it, Hate it, Hate it, Hate it.
He's a LT that has to move to a new position, struggles against pass rushers, and only really shined at the senior bowl. He had doubts about his motivation and he's going to be playing out of position.
He was a secondary level offensive line talent but Ozzie refused to move up in the first and missed out on David DeCastro, passed on guys like Jonathan Martin and Cordy Glenn in the early second round, and stayed put and missed out on Peter Konz and Mike Adams and Jonathan Martin. So now we have a secondary offensive line talent.
So far this draft is an F |
You truly have no clue and think you know more than you actually do.
How do you know Ozzie didn't think about trading up?
do you know what goes on in the war room?
Maybe to leap frog other teams they would have had to give up too much and it wasn't worth it?
I'm not saying this kid is a sure thing, but you make it out like you have any clue on what good coaching in the NFL can do for a guy like him?
We didn't miss out on Konz, Martin or Adams.. We passed up on all 3 of them!!!
Maybe it's just me but I'm just tired of hearing whiners and cry babies and wannabe NFL scouts.
Let him play before you judge the pick, you know the intelligent thing to do?
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