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Can someone explain why Chandler Jones is a 1st rounder?
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The Cryptkeeper


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jones looks like JPP and comes from an accomplished athletic family. Those two things got him drafted a round earlier than he would've otherwise.

The production wasn't there, especially when you look at what other Big East linemen were putting up. It's not like he was new to football like JPP was, either. I think he's probably the single most overrated guy in terms of pass rushing out there. He should help out in run support, though. He's like a poor man's version of Willie McGinest. I see him being a decent pro- he won't utterly wash out like Derrick Harvey, but he won't be an impact guy like JPP or McGinest was, either.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved him as a prospect. Was talking him up for a solid month before the draft. He has elite size. He plays every down. He is a raw pass rusher. He has really fast hands. This was hard to gauge but in few snaps I saw him drop back he wasn't attacked. He's very stout vs the run and made plays across the LOS. He does sometimes play to high. And imo he was a pretty explosive off the line.
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goldfishwars


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
I loved him as a prospect. Was talking him up for a solid month before the draft. He has elite size. He plays every down. He is a raw pass rusher. He has really fast hands. This was hard to gauge but in few snaps I saw him drop back he wasn't attacked. He's very stout vs the run and made plays across the LOS. He does sometimes play to high. And imo he was a pretty explosive off the line.


He's raw and has technical deficiencies, get's too high at the point of attack - but he's at the Patriots now where he'll get that stuff ironed out. We've relied on overachievers at the position for too long and now it's time to get someone who actually has the tools to succeed.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:

This is why the media is gobbing over it... If Miami had made this move, they would be bashing us. But Bill is mistakenly considered a drafting God by so many that it doesn't even matter that he took a 5th round prospect in the second round.


So true. I already knew that but i was still expecting somekind of criticism for what was very similar to the Mike Mitchell pick a few years ago. I'm still waiting for it...
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SaveourSonics


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
Gmen wrote:
Because Jason Pierre Paul had 16.5 sacks, 86 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, a safety and a blocked FG last season.


This guy is no JPP! JPP was a complete athletic freak of nature. This guy doesn't have that type of upside at all.


yeah, that's kinda what I thought

so how come the media is gobbing Bili Beli's knob over sacrificing a pick to move up and grab the dude ahead of Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, 3 teams who had about 0 interest in the guy?


Because an NFL source leaked to the media that teams were high on Chandler Jones and the media ran with it, subsequently moving him up their boards without anything changing in his performance. Even though it's quite funny that 3 teams took pass rushers before Chandler Jones came off the board.
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any time Jones played in college, he looked like a first round pick due to his completeness as a run defender and a pass rusher, his ability to interfere with QBs' field of visions at the line of scrimmage, and his intelligence/leadership ability. He would have been an undoubted first round pick if he hadn't been injured this year, and even then the injury was minimal enough that teams aren't concerned about it long-term.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure anyone is "slopping BB's nob" over this pick or the draft as a whole. Around NE, people are excited over the draft. That doesn't mean, however, that everyone believes it was an A++ draft. As a Pats fan I'm unsure about Jones (but I like the pick) and obviously Wilson. I think a lot of people are excited that BB was aggressive and addressed areas of need. I also think Jones was the binky of a lot of draft gurus out there. Couple those two things and it looks like everyone is praising BB for his draft.

Who knows how any of these prospects are going to pan out. I seem to remember the Volmer, Gostkowski, Mankins, Seymour, and (I think) Wilfolk picks being heavily criticized. People get too wrapped up in what McShay and Kiper write over the course of the year and fall in love with rankings. All this talk about fluid hips, playing upright, great hands, etc.. means so little to me. I'm no scout but I know the Patriots employ plenty of those and have a pretty damn good coaching staff. If they see a guy that has potential that can succeed in their system, then they should take him. Even if it doesn't mesh with Kiper or McShay.


Last edited by Nihc on Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
Gmen wrote:
Because Jason Pierre Paul had 16.5 sacks, 86 tackles, 7 PD, 2 FF, a safety and a blocked FG last season.


This guy is no JPP! JPP was a complete athletic freak of nature. This guy doesn't have that type of upside at all.


yeah, that's kinda what I thought

so how come the media is gobbing Bili Beli's knob over sacrificing a pick to move up and grab the dude ahead of Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, 3 teams who had about 0 interest in the guy?


Because an NFL source leaked to the media that teams were high on Chandler Jones and the media ran with it, subsequently moving him up their boards without anything changing in his performance. Even though it's quite funny that 3 teams took pass rushers before Chandler Jones came off the board.


Maybe those three teams wanted a different type of player. I'm not sure that getting selected as the 4th pass rusher = 4th best pass rushing prospect.
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SHONUFF


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: DE Reply with quote

If the Pat were to take Bruce Irving there, the media would praising them for it. They take a guy with a similar grade minus the production and what do you know, the media bobbing on them.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: DE Reply with quote

SHONUFF wrote:
If the Pat were to take Bruce Irving there, the media would praising them for it. They take a guy with a similar grade minus the production and what do you know, the media bobbing on them.


I hate the grade argument. It's asinine, nobody knows how good these players are going to be. And it seems like there are just as many people slamming the Pats draft as there are praising it.
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SHONUFF


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:45 pm    Post subject: DE Reply with quote

I hate the grade arguments as well, but all the people who bash the Seahawks (Kiper and his minions around here) are using projections and grades as well. I'm partial to college production, but understand it's not the end all be all.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
Any time Jones played in college, he looked like a first round pick due to his completeness as a run defender and a pass rusher, his ability to interfere with QBs' field of visions at the line of scrimmage, and his intelligence/leadership ability. He would have been an undoubted first round pick if he hadn't been injured this year, and even then the injury was minimal enough that teams aren't concerned about it long-term.


Maybe to Patriots fans. Sure didn't look like a 1st round pick to me.
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24isthelaw


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: DE Reply with quote

SHONUFF wrote:
I hate the grade arguments as well, but all the people who bash the Seahawks (Kiper and his minions around here) are using projections and grades as well. I'm partial to college production, but understand it's not the end all be all.


As a Pats fan I think a lot of what people are saying here is legitimate. Jones doesn't have the quickness to be JPP or Aldon Smith, or whatever huge vine-armed pass rusher he gets compared to. I also agree that he was a reach.

This kind of reminds me of Solder though. Solder was a really raw player in college with poor technique and who needed more sand in his pants. It wasn't necessarily a good pick at the time. Ultimately, the seasoning came sooner than expected and he became a good player. So I'm not going to write-off Jones as a mediocre pass rusher yet, even though I have doubts. Our staff are garbage at coaching cover guys, but they do a fantastic job in the trenches.

I think his floor is Ray Edwards and his ceiling is a 4-3 version of Calais Campbell. Will not be run on, commands a double when he goes inside and gets 8-10 sacks a year, while opening it up for his teammates. It will be interesting to see how he and Coples (who I see as ultimately having similar roles in the NFL) develop on rival teams.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
so how come the media is gobbing Bili Beli's knob over sacrificing a pick to move up and grab the dude ahead of Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland, 3 teams who had about 0 interest in the guy?

Actually, Belichick was willing to go higher. It sounds like he was expecting to use a second rounder to move up, but when he realized that was unnecessary, he just went as high as his 3rd would get him. So my guess is he was already getting better value than he anticipated, so he wasn't going to risk out on losing him because he waited for absolutely perfect value.
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coors


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some may not want to admit it.. but I think that bloodline has a little bit to do with his "hype"

being brothers with Art Jones.. a DT/DE for the Ravens.. and his brother Jon being the UFC undisputed light heavyweight champion.. clearly shows that them Jones boys are just superior specimens/athletes that have proven to succeed at the highest levels.. something as small as his bloodline IMO could set him above another guy if they may have the exact same grade/rating..
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