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The future of the WR corps
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect Driver will be asked to take a pay cut and will come to camp and compete along with everyone else. I don't know if you give a #5 WR $5M a year. Jones isn't really trade bait. He didn't elicit a lot of big offers when he was a FA so I can't imagine he'll be all that attractive in a trade. I'm really eager to see Borel and Gurley play this summer. Moss might be the perfect PS candidate.
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CentralFC


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take the five guys that led our offense to the history books rather than tinkering with it and possibly upsetting the chemistry they have going from four years of work.

What I would consider, however, is dropping Williams maybe and adding a sixth receiver (Gurley or Borel, depending on how the coaches value each on special teams and their roles in our offense). Other than that, keep Driver for his experience and charisma and role as a fifth/slot receiver.
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Sandybaby716


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
I'll take the five guys that led our offense to the history books rather than tinkering with it and possibly upsetting the chemistry they have going from four years of work.

What I would consider, however, is dropping Williams maybe and adding a sixth receiver (Gurley or Borel, depending on how the coaches value each on special teams and their roles in our offense). Other than that, keep Driver for his experience and charisma and role as a fifth/slot receiver.


One thing to keep in mind was that Pat Lee was one of our starting gunners on special teams. Someone has to take that roe, and Gurley may make the roster as a special teamer, not a WR.

People think that the PS guys and UDFAs are fighting for Driver's spot. They're fighting with the other special teamers.
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pacnwpackfan


Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget Shaky; they IR'd Mr. Smithson for a reason.

In seriousness, I expect them to keep DD into training camp. Them keeping him or releasing him will be a product of one of those four young guys (Gurley, Borel, Smithson, or Moss) TAKING his spot in training camp. Driver is a phenomenal athlete even at his age, so it ain't gonna be easy.
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ChaRisMa


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should just keep 6. Rotate them all in. That group is due for a couple of injuries, knock on wood.
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I Am Rodgers


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than cut Driver, I'd see if we can send him Philbins way for a 7th or conditional pick. They need WR's, especially ones that know the offense. I think the average fan would rather see Driver traded to Philbins new team than cut. Then again, who knows.
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TheGreatZepp


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think veteran leadership/experience/locker room presence can be considered a valid argument to keep Driver anymore. Jennings, Nelson and Jones are all true veterans and won't miss a beat when Driver does finally part ways. If you keep Driver it is because of what he brings on game day. He's a damn fine slot play and his heir, Cobb, still has a lot of the game to learn at WR while splitting time as the returner. I still have a hard time with that cut without a breakout camp and preseason by one of the other receivers or Driver's wheels falling off. Special teams value definitely has to be considered but if there's two places I might look away from teams value for piece of mind on depth it would be defensive line first followed by wide receiver. The defensive line part might just be overcompensating after what happened last season but too much was exposed. Now as for wide receiver, if I'm carrying five, I take the five that can have the most impact lining up on offense. The shifts, movements and routes that are demanded in the Packers offense are taxing on the receivers and while TE's can split out there are still three or more receivers on the field for the majority of the plays. Three or four years ago it worked having a Ruvell Martin or Brett Swain as the #5 for their teams value but since then the pass/rush ratio has slide to favor the pass offense more then ever before. That was also a time when you kept eight defensive linemen for your 4-3 defense, nine offensive linemen, three quarterbacks and nine defensive backs. The change in offensive philosophies and defensive scheme I would say gives the Packers the largest pool ever in terms of pulling special teamers and you don't have to try and force a teamer onto the roster just to make teams numbers. You have Crabtree, Bush, House, Hayward, Burnett, Lattimore, Peprah, So'oto, McMillian, Taylor, D.J.'s Williams and Smith, Walden, Zombo, Jones, Perry, M.D. Jennings, Manning, Francois even Quarless if he is back, I think you can find 9-10 teamers out of those, and most of them are ones that practice wrapping up and tackling everyday and can run just fine.
Again, if one of Gurley, Smithson, Borel, etc is ready to contribute on offense then they provide something to really consider but if they're still relatively raw and rough around the edges, as I would say Cobb already is then no.


Sandybaby, I definitely know the need for a new gunner opposite Bush but what are the odds that a wide receiver would get that role over a defensive back? I am not going to have a lot of confidence that a wide receiver is going to be a tremendous open field tackler and would think any of the reserve defensive backs would be favorites for that role, even Shields perhaps if he gets beat out for nickel.
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blankman0021


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
I don't think veteran leadership/experience/locker room presence can be considered a valid argument to keep Driver anymore. Jennings, Nelson and Jones are all true veterans and won't miss a beat when Driver does finally part ways. If you keep Driver it is because of what he brings on game day. He's a damn fine slot play and his heir, Cobb, still has a lot of the game to learn at WR while splitting time as the returner. I still have a hard time with that cut without a breakout camp and preseason by one of the other receivers or Driver's wheels falling off. Special teams value definitely has to be considered but if there's two places I might look away from teams value for piece of mind on depth it would be defensive line first followed by wide receiver. The defensive line part might just be overcompensating after what happened last season but too much was exposed. Now as for wide receiver, if I'm carrying five, I take the five that can have the most impact lining up on offense. The shifts, movements and routes that are demanded in the Packers offense are taxing on the receivers and while TE's can split out there are still three or more receivers on the field for the majority of the plays. Three or four years ago it worked having a Ruvell Martin or Brett Swain as the #5 for their teams value but since then the pass/rush ratio has slide to favor the pass offense more then ever before. That was also a time when you kept eight defensive linemen for your 4-3 defense, nine offensive linemen, three quarterbacks and nine defensive backs. The change in offensive philosophies and defensive scheme I would say gives the Packers the largest pool ever in terms of pulling special teamers and you don't have to try and force a teamer onto the roster just to make teams numbers. You have Crabtree, Bush, House, Hayward, Burnett, Lattimore, Peprah, So'oto, McMillian, Taylor, D.J.'s Williams and Smith, Walden, Zombo, Jones, Perry, M.D. Jennings, Manning, Francois even Quarless if he is back, I think you can find 9-10 teamers out of those, and most of them are ones that practice wrapping up and tackling everyday and can run just fine.
Again, if one of Gurley, Smithson, Borel, etc is ready to contribute on offense then they provide something to really consider but if they're still relatively raw and rough around the edges, as I would say Cobb already is then no.


Sandybaby, I definitely know the need for a new gunner opposite Bush but what are the odds that a wide receiver would get that role over a defensive back? I am not going to have a lot of confidence that a wide receiver is going to be a tremendous open field tackler and would think any of the reserve defensive backs would be favorites for that role, even Shields perhaps if he gets beat out for nickel.


Agreed. Only point that I want to bring up is that Gurley isn't just a teams player. He has a rare ability to block kicks with greater frequency than other players. At least that was the report coming out of TC last year. The dude had a knack for it and that very well might be worth it. But I agree, if he can't catch, make a big play, or run the right route he has no business on the field game day. And I don't doubt for one second that the Packers would keep DD in that case.
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Sandybaby716


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
Sandybaby, I definitely know the need for a new gunner opposite Bush but what are the odds that a wide receiver would get that role over a defensive back? I am not going to have a lot of confidence that a wide receiver is going to be a tremendous open field tackler and would think any of the reserve defensive backs would be favorites for that role, even Shields perhaps if he gets beat out for nickel.


I'm not saying they definitely will, or even that I think they will..but it certainly isn't impossible, and if we feel Gurley is our second best gunner, then the roster spot is his, the amount of WRs on the roster be damned.

I do agree that Shields is a very likely candidate for the spot, even if he hangs onto his nickel role.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
I don't think veteran leadership/experience/locker room presence can be considered a valid argument to keep Driver anymore.


Not quoting the entire thing since this is the only thing I'm commenting on. You shouldn't cut him with that mentality. If you've got other players who you think will help your team win games, than you consider cutting him at that point. But a team can always use a great veteran like Donald Driver in the locker room. Personalities like Donald Driver are infectious and really rub off on other players. The Packers don't need Donald Driver from a mentor perspective, but they can always use a great man in the locker room.


TheGreatZepp wrote:
Sandybaby, I definitely know the need for a new gunner opposite Bush but what are the odds that a wide receiver would get that role over a defensive back? I am not going to have a lot of confidence that a wide receiver is going to be a tremendous open field tackler and would think any of the reserve defensive backs would be favorites for that role, even Shields perhaps if he gets beat out for nickel.


Historically, the Packers have always carried ten defensive backs with five corners, a CB/S tweener, and four safeties. Jarrett Bush seems to have that CB/S role and the five corner seem set with Woodson, Williams, Shields, Hayward, and House. The safeties seem far more wide open. Unless Tori Gurley or another wide receiver makes the team as a sixth wide receiver, seems unlikely that the gunner opposite of Bush will be a WR. Don't think they'd put Shields out there as a gunner, not a real great tackler in the open field.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could not agree more, CWood!

Been around this game all my life. Never once has someone told me they had too many leaders!
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TheGreatZepp


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
TheGreatZepp wrote:
I don't think veteran leadership/experience/locker room presence can be considered a valid argument to keep Driver anymore.


Not quoting the entire thing since this is the only thing I'm commenting on. You shouldn't cut him with that mentality. If you've got other players who you think will help your team win games, than you consider cutting him at that point. But a team can always use a great veteran like Donald Driver in the locker room. Personalities like Donald Driver are infectious and really rub off on other players. The Packers don't need Donald Driver from a mentor perspective, but they can always use a great man in the locker room.
Except in context, I said you don't keep him because of leadership, locker room presence if he comes in slow and gets outplayed by another receiver that looks ready to be a starter. That would be the equivalent of keeping Clifton when he couldn't pass the physical. I've heard people talk of keeping Driver for his leadership play be damned and I'm disagreeing with that not the value of leadership on a team but thanks for picking out one sentence Wink
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smetana34


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreatZepp wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
TheGreatZepp wrote:
I don't think veteran leadership/experience/locker room presence can be considered a valid argument to keep Driver anymore.


Not quoting the entire thing since this is the only thing I'm commenting on. You shouldn't cut him with that mentality. If you've got other players who you think will help your team win games, than you consider cutting him at that point. But a team can always use a great veteran like Donald Driver in the locker room. Personalities like Donald Driver are infectious and really rub off on other players. The Packers don't need Donald Driver from a mentor perspective, but they can always use a great man in the locker room.
Except in context, I said you don't keep him because of leadership, locker room presence if he comes in slow and gets outplayed by another receiver that looks ready to be a starter. That would be the equivalent of keeping Clifton when he couldn't pass the physical. I've heard people talk of keeping Driver for his leadership play be damned and I'm disagreeing with that not the value of leadership on a team but thanks for picking out one sentence Wink


That's my thought also. It's easier to be lead by a guy who is still capable of playing at a good/high level. If Driver comes in slow, can't catch a cold, etc. I'd have a hard time with him trying to lead me if he can't do it himself.

Basically: lead by example. If his play has fallen off dramatically (which for the record I don't think it has) then it's not worth keeping him. Granted Rodgers and Jennings don't have as much time invested, but I feel they'd be able to lead the team, or least the offense, just fine without Driver.
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Sandybaby716


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

smetana34 wrote:
That's my thought also. It's easier to be lead by a guy who is still capable of playing at a good/high level. If Driver comes in slow, can't catch a cold, etc. I'd have a hard time with him trying to lead me if he can't do it himself.

Basically: lead by example. If his play has fallen off dramatically (which for the record I don't think it has) then it's not worth keeping him. Granted Rodgers and Jennings don't have as much time invested, but I feel they'd be able to lead the team, or least the offense, just fine without Driver.


the thing is, Driver isn't slow. He can catch. He was still our third best receiver last season. And I've heard he's taken up dance this offseason to improve his footwork and conditioning. He's still going to be a better reciever than Borel and Gurley. Throw in the leadership and the money isn't a factor at all.
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