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MonserinNC
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Location: Back in the CHIIII
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Whoa whoa whoa, Leinart isnt exactly "quality" backup, in fact I cant think of a case when he stepped in and was a good backup at all.
Pryor should still be very much in the QB mix, and basically after this one year deal is up, he probably will become the primary back up.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 12824
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SwiftTexan wrote: | | Yeah - I posted that he was visiting during the draft weekend. I really like Leinart and still thought he had some hope in the right system. I'm not sure what the Raiders plan to do with McKenzie and Allen but they've always been a deep threat offense and that's not Leinart's strong suit. Some Raiders fans can probably shed more light on this than I can. |
Our new offense is a run heavy WCO Play Action Roll out with a ZBS. Basically, it's the offense the Texans have been running for at least the last couple years (maybe more). Greg Knapp is our OC and he was the Texans QB coach the last 2 years. Leinart is coming into the same system. This and his relationship with Palmer are the main reasons we signed him.
We did the same thing on the oline, where the OL coach was with the Texans last year and we signed Brisiel in FA. |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 25045
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| TomRalph wrote: | Terrelle Pryor was such a lulzy pick.
3rd in the Supplemental is basically 1st Round value in the normal draft, but now it seems Pryor won't even see the field, at least for the next couple of years. |
Mmmmmmmmm no. A 3rd in the supplemental is literally 3rd round value in the normal draft. And Palmer isn't going to last forever. All this means is Pryor needs more time to develop before he's the #2.
And thinking about it; it's not really surprising. He was a raw prospect coming out to begin with. Now changing offensive systems, he'll need time to adjust. The Raiders saw first hand what can happen without a capable backup last season when JCam got hurt and we were stuck with Boller (thank you Hue  ). Just an investment in an experienced backup who already knows the system for the most part.
As for Matt Leinart:
Tbh, I wouldn't be that surprised to see Leinart actually progress into 'the guy' here. He found a good fit in Greg Knapp's Offense and the clipboard time seems to have woken him up. It's a long shot and just a hunch, but as a huge Trojan fan when he was around I'd love nothing more to see him thrive in the Silver & Black.
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SwiftTexan
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | SwiftTexan wrote: | | Yeah - I posted that he was visiting during the draft weekend. I really like Leinart and still thought he had some hope in the right system. I'm not sure what the Raiders plan to do with McKenzie and Allen but they've always been a deep threat offense and that's not Leinart's strong suit. Some Raiders fans can probably shed more light on this than I can. |
Our new offense is a run heavy WCO Play Action Roll out with a ZBS. Basically, it's the offense the Texans have been running for at least the last couple years (maybe more). Greg Knapp is our OC and he was the Texans QB coach the last 2 years. Leinart is coming into the same system. This and his relationship with Palmer are the main reasons we signed him.
We did the same thing on the oline, where the OL coach was with the Texans last year and we signed Brisiel in FA. |
That's what I thought - I knew Knapp was there but many of your WRs are still from the old system so I didn't know how that would be a fit. Obviously it takes more than a year so implement a system - I just didn't know if they would keep some of the Aerial Attack from years past because they have guys like Ford, DHB and Moore that excel in stretching the field
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GO SEAHAWKS GO!
Not a Texans fan...just a nickname.
April 7th, 2013
| aceinthehouse wrote: | Don't sweat Seattle.
They're overrated & not making the Playoffs next season.
8-8 or 9-7 best for Seattle. (& No Playoffs) |
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SwiftTexan
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| MonserinNC wrote: | Whoa whoa whoa, Leinart isnt exactly "quality" backup, in fact I cant think of a case when he stepped in and was a good backup at all.
Pryor should still be very much in the QB mix, and basically after this one year deal is up, he probably will become the primary back up. |
He's really developed in the last few years with the Texans - I think he would have proved a lot of people wrong if he didn't break his collarbone. I don't mean he would have been a Top10 pick but I'd still rank him as one of the better back-ups in the league. It's a good signing - Pryor isn't ready yet. I doubt the Raiders want to find themselves in a similar situation when a starter goes down and they have no back-up so they have to go and trade multiple picks for a starter elsewhere. It's better to have depth already on your roster.
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GO SEAHAWKS GO!
Not a Texans fan...just a nickname.
April 7th, 2013
| aceinthehouse wrote: | Don't sweat Seattle.
They're overrated & not making the Playoffs next season.
8-8 or 9-7 best for Seattle. (& No Playoffs) |
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 12824
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| SwiftTexan wrote: | | Obviously it takes more than a year so implement a system - I just didn't know if they would keep some of the Aerial Attack from years past because they have guys like Ford, DHB and Moore that excel in stretching the field |
In the old system, the deep throws were effective with Palmer because he's willing to take a shot downfield and has the accuracy on those deep patterns. When Campbell was the QB, it was totally different. He rarely goes deep and when he does, he is pretty average.
DHB became effective when Hue changed his role in the offense. He's not a deep threat. A very high percentage of his catches come on short slants and outside curls. Moore is the real deep threat. Ford does a bit of both. He can catch a short pass and turn it into a long gain with his breakaway speed or come up with a circus catch downfield.
The Raiders were already a good screen team and it's a big part of the new offense as well.
The main issue is the TE position. Knapp loves to use the TEs and our current group is far from impressive on paper. The hope is for one of the young guys to emerge as only one of the 5 TEs (Brandon Myers) has more than one season of experience in the league. |
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OakRaiders3828
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9267
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | Terrelle Pryor was such a lulzy pick.
3rd in the Supplemental is basically 1st Round value in the normal draft, but now it seems Pryor won't even see the field, at least for the next couple of years. |
Pryor was never anything more than a 5th-6th round pick in a conventional draft, but the Raiders still obsess over how fast a guy can run rather than pay attention to how well he actually plays his respective position. Pryor had glaring deficiencies as a QB at Ohio State, but teams keep falling into that ideological trap that a QB who runs well means that he's a good player. And Pryor is not a good player. |
STILL obsess? Have you been living under a rock? You know who made that pick right? You know who is now running the team right?
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Roninho
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1621
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | SwiftTexan wrote: | | Obviously it takes more than a year so implement a system - I just didn't know if they would keep some of the Aerial Attack from years past because they have guys like Ford, DHB and Moore that excel in stretching the field |
In the old system, the deep throws were effective with Palmer because he's willing to take a shot downfield and has the accuracy on those deep patterns. When Campbell was the QB, it was totally different. He rarely goes deep and when he does, he is pretty average.
DHB became effective when Hue changed his role in the offense. He's not a deep threat. A very high percentage of his catches come on short slants and outside curls. Moore is the real deep threat. Ford does a bit of both. He can catch a short pass and turn it into a long gain with his breakaway speed or come up with a circus catch downfield.
The Raiders were already a good screen team and it's a big part of the new offense as well.
The main issue is the TE position. Knapp loves to use the TEs and our current group is far from impressive on paper. The hope is for one of the young guys to emerge as only one of the 5 TEs (Brandon Myers) has more than one season of experience in the league. |
Thank you ,this explains it perfectly oak!
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carnageehw
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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So when's his press conference.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37213
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MonserinNC wrote: | | Whoa whoa whoa, Leinart isnt exactly "quality" backup, in fact I cant think of a case when he stepped in and was a good backup at all. |
He was 10/13 with a TD pass in his relief duty as a Texan last season, before he broke his collarbone. If you watched the game and looked beyond the numbers, you saw that he was collected in the pocket, took what the defense gave to him and made some good throws in the process.
His TD pass in that game was downright fantastic; The Jags dialed up a blitz, a defender shot the gap and was closing quickly, Leinart sidestepped and faded backwards and lofted a sweet pass to TE Joel Dreessen in space, something Dreessen was able to catch and waltz into the end zone with. It was a REALLY nice throw, one he had to let develop and throw it to where Dreessen had room to make something happen, not just throw it to avoid the hit. He showed a lot of patience on that pass, a real veteran QB throw, IMO.
It's a small sample set, yet...but enough of a sample set to show that Leinart had been working on a lot of his game, studying the film made available to him and was getting the timing down with targets he rarely worked with in real game-day situations.
I think he will be fine as a backup. Heck, I think he'd be fine as a starter. Not GREAT, but good enough to keep a team in a game.
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37213
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Here:
Fast Forward to 2:47.
My take on it wasn't entirely accurate, the drop back wasn't exactly as deep as I figured, but you see it there; Leinart was dead to rights off the PA, but he waited it out, threw it into a space where only Joel D could make the catch and still work his way towards the end zone, and threw it to where Joel didn't have to stop; He caught that pass in full stride, off of the shallow crossing route. With pressure bearing down on you and cutting off your line of sight, that is a TOUGH throw to make.
I'll give you that the coverage wasn't that special; Joel D had a step on his man, and the S in that area was pretty deep with Andre Johnson sitting in the end zone. Makes for a soft spot in the zone, correct. But in the face of that kind of pressure, to throw a pass like that...well, it showed me that Leinart has the goods to take snaps in the NFL.
(BTW - Who the heck makes a Joel Dreessen highlight reel?)
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mistakebytehlak
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 38876
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Silver&Black88 wrote: | | TomRalph wrote: | Terrelle Pryor was such a lulzy pick.
3rd in the Supplemental is basically 1st Round value in the normal draft, but now it seems Pryor won't even see the field, at least for the next couple of years. |
Mmmmmmmmm no. A 3rd in the supplemental is literally 3rd round value in the normal draft. And Palmer isn't going to last forever. All this means is Pryor needs more time to develop before he's the #2.
And thinking about it; it's not really surprising. He was a raw prospect coming out to begin with. Now changing offensive systems, he'll need time to adjust. The Raiders saw first hand what can happen without a capable backup last season when JCam got hurt and we were stuck with Boller (thank you Hue ). Just an investment in an experienced backup who already knows the system for the most part.
As for Matt Leinart:
Tbh, I wouldn't be that surprised to see Leinart actually progress into 'the guy' here. He found a good fit in Greg Knapp's Offense and the clipboard time seems to have woken him up. It's a long shot and just a hunch, but as a huge Trojan fan when he was around I'd love nothing more to see him thrive in the Silver & Black. |
bolded- no its not.
the time value of money says that giving up a 3rd in the supplemental draft is actually better than giving up a 3rd for a player in the regular draft- as you get him a season earlier.
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 12824
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: |
the time value of money says that giving up a 3rd in the supplemental draft is actually better than giving up a 3rd for a player in the regular draft- as you get him a season earlier. |
Correct me if i'm wrong but it would have an impact on the player's value, not on the pick's value. |
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 37213
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | mistakebytehlak wrote: |
the time value of money says that giving up a 3rd in the supplemental draft is actually better than giving up a 3rd for a player in the regular draft- as you get him a season earlier. |
Correct me if i'm wrong but it would have an impact on the player's value, not on the pick's value. |
That's how I see it. The value in terms of the PLAYER is enhanced, because you get a full year with said player. The value in terms of the PICK is the same. It's still a 3rd round pick, no matter "when" you spend it; Be it in that supplemental draft or the actual draft.
Maybe I'm taking a too simple look at it? I get the time value of money model, and it would make sense when discussing the player - getting Terrell Pryor NOW is better than getting him a year from now, because you can "invest" Pryor and gain "interest" off of him as opposed to drafting him with the original pick. The actual PICK itself - you can't really do much with it no matter when you use it, it will still be a 3rd round pick.
You're the smart one, MBTL. Figure it out. 
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SwiftTexan
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 2443
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| EliteTexan80 wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | mistakebytehlak wrote: |
the time value of money says that giving up a 3rd in the supplemental draft is actually better than giving up a 3rd for a player in the regular draft- as you get him a season earlier. |
Correct me if i'm wrong but it would have an impact on the player's value, not on the pick's value. |
That's how I see it. The value in terms of the PLAYER is enhanced, because you get a full year with said player. The value in terms of the PICK is the same. It's still a 3rd round pick, no matter "when" you spend it; Be it in that supplemental draft or the actual draft.
Maybe I'm taking a too simple look at it? I get the time value of money model, and it would make sense when discussing the player - getting Terrell Pryor NOW is better than getting him a year from now, because you can "invest" Pryor and gain "interest" off of him as opposed to drafting him with the original pick. The actual PICK itself - you can't really do much with it no matter when you use it, it will still be a 3rd round pick.
You're the smart one, MBTL. Figure it out. :D |
You're essentially trading a 2012 3rd round draft pick to get Pryor in 2011. MTBL has a point - teams usually grade picks differently in the future. It's like Patriots got a 6th round pick for the 211th pick (7th round) from the Vikings this year. WHEN you get the player is just as important as WHERE. You get Pyror for a whole year without having to pay anything. It's like those furniture deals - Buy a couch today and dont' pay until 2015!
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GO SEAHAWKS GO!
Not a Texans fan...just a nickname.
April 7th, 2013
| aceinthehouse wrote: | Don't sweat Seattle.
They're overrated & not making the Playoffs next season.
8-8 or 9-7 best for Seattle. (& No Playoffs) |
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