| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Sacks98
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 3503
|
 Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:39 am Post subject: |
 |
|
|
| CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | Let me put it this way one of Irvin's knocks is he will be brought on the field as a specialist to do one thing get after the QB who honestly cares if that is his role if he puts up double digit sack numbers?
Now if your questioning whether he can do that fine i get that but i don't think its right to knock a guy because he does one thing that you really want him to do. |
You don't draft for situational pass rushers in the first round. That can get you fired as a GM. Right now, the only time you could be comfortable putting Bruce Irvin in is on obvious passing downs like third and long. You can't really put him in other times because he's going to get washed out in the running game. |
Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one sure i would love for him to grow into a every day player but as long as he gets me 10+ sacks a season it doesn't bother me how he is used.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 31546
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Sacks98 wrote: | | CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | Let me put it this way one of Irvin's knocks is he will be brought on the field as a specialist to do one thing get after the QB who honestly cares if that is his role if he puts up double digit sack numbers?
Now if your questioning whether he can do that fine i get that but i don't think its right to knock a guy because he does one thing that you really want him to do. |
You don't draft for situational pass rushers in the first round. That can get you fired as a GM. Right now, the only time you could be comfortable putting Bruce Irvin in is on obvious passing downs like third and long. You can't really put him in other times because he's going to get washed out in the running game. |
Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one sure i would love for him to grow into a every day player but as long as he gets me 10+ sacks a season it doesn't bother me how he is used. |
It's tough to both agree and disagree. I mean if he becomes a double digit sack guy, hard to say he isn't worth the pick but at the same time, it's also hard to spend a 1st rounder on a guy that you see as nothing more than a part time player. So I guess I'm kind of stuck in the middle here lol.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48143
Location: New New York
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| jrry32 wrote: | | It's tough to both agree and disagree. I mean if he becomes a double digit sack guy, hard to say he isn't worth the pick but at the same time, it's also hard to spend a 1st rounder on a guy that you see as nothing more than a part time player. So I guess I'm kind of stuck in the middle here lol. |
It also bears pointing out that if the guy is only ever going to play in a 3rd and 6+ situations and maybe a few other obvious passing situations on early downs Irvin is going to play maybe 100 snaps this season. If he gets 10 sacks on 100 snaps he will be probably the most efficient sack in history.
I don't think he plays that little, but he is going to be a huge liability against the run and you and not going to drop him into coverage much. It limits the scope of his impact, it limits his potential snap opportunities. I don't see Irvin being able to play a role in Seattle that allows him to be a consistent double digit sack guy without also being out there on downs where he is nothing but a liability.
_________________
Patrick Peterson - 92 targets, 40 catches allowed, 602 yards, 6 TD's, 7 INT's
The Big Brain am winning again, I am the Greetest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 30533
Location: 'Merica
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Sacks98 wrote: | | Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one sure i would love for him to grow into a every day player but as long as he gets me 10+ sacks a season it doesn't bother me how he is used. |
So you're content with a situational player so long as they get the double digit sacks. Sounds like you're too much into raw numbers and not the bigger picture. When you're drafting in the first, you're drafting for a significant part of your franchise. Not a situational role player. Like khodder alluded to, I don't think that Bruce Irvin is going to be put in a situation where he has a good chance of getting double digit sacks.
_________________
^sandwhich on the sig^
| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 5349
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | | Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one sure i would love for him to grow into a every day player but as long as he gets me 10+ sacks a season it doesn't bother me how he is used. |
So you're content with a situational player so long as they get the double digit sacks. Sounds like you're too much into raw numbers and not the bigger picture. When you're drafting in the first, you're drafting for a significant part of your franchise. Not a situational role player. Like khodder alluded to, I don't think that Bruce Irvin is going to be put in a situation where he has a good chance of getting double digit sacks. |
And he's going to be crushed in the run game.
_________________
Thanks Duron Harmon! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sacks98
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 3503
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | | Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one sure i would love for him to grow into a every day player but as long as he gets me 10+ sacks a season it doesn't bother me how he is used. |
So you're content with a situational player so long as they get the double digit sacks. Sounds like you're too much into raw numbers and not the bigger picture. When you're drafting in the first, you're drafting for a significant part of your franchise. Not a situational role player. Like khodder alluded to, I don't think that Bruce Irvin is going to be put in a situation where he has a good chance of getting double digit sacks. |
Pete Caroll said he will try to get him at least 650 snaps and again i don't buy into that whole you don't draft a situational player if he is great at one thing that you want.
Clemons is in our starting Leo role they are roughly about the same height Clemons is 10 pounds heavier if Irvin could put that weight on i could see him eventually replacing Clemons the season after this one.
_________________
Last edited by Sacks98 on Thu May 03, 2012 4:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 30533
Location: 'Merica
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Sacks98 wrote: | | Pete Caroll said he will try to get him at least 650 snaps and again i don't buy into that whole you don't draft a situational player if he is great at one thing that you want. |
The average number of defensive snaps per game is roughly 60, and the expectations of Pete Carroll call for Irvin to play roughly 2/3rds of the defensive snaps. If Irvin is playing that many snaps, the Seahawks are either playing catch up or the Seahawks are in the process of getting destroyed.
_________________
^sandwhich on the sig^
| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Swift21
Joined: 20 Oct 2011
Posts: 729
Location: SF
|
| Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| 49ersfan wrote: | | Swift21 wrote: | | Gore would have to play extremely awful this season to not be on the roster in 2013. It's very unlikely. I agree Jacobs will certainly be gone though. |
He regressed last year and sadly i expect him to regress even further this year, he's reaching the age where a RB with his mileage tends to decline, not get better.
|
1200 yards and 8 td's is still pretty good for a "regression year"
_________________
| SaveourSonics wrote: | | Pete is just an arrogant wanna-be Jim Harbaugh but he's just not as smart. |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BillsGuy82
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 6645
Location: Niagara Falls
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| CWood21 wrote: | | BillsGuy82 wrote: | | I respect your posts and analysis generally especially in the baseball forum, but unfortunately giving Gilmore a 3rd round grade is a joke. Personally Michael Floyd should have been the pick based on value/need, but IMO Gilmore was the clear 2nd rated CB, just ahead of Jenkins and way ahead of Kirkpatrick. I agree with Glenn as a T, but feel he will become a solid road grader with flex. I feel Sanders will be the starting RT come 2013, and I had him as a 3rd round grade as well. I grade is a solid B |
Aside from the H/S combination, what exactly would you say gave him a first round grade? Like I touched on earlier, his technique is pretty bad and needs a ton of work. He possesses good, but not great ball skills. So his technique isn't great and he isn't a huge ballhawk, so what's to love about him? Michael Floyd should have been the pick, but the Bills were intent on drafting a defensive player but I think they had their eye on Mark Barron. I like Gilmore a bit more at safety than I do at corner. And I don't think Gilmore was the clear #2, it really depends on the team. Some didn't even have Janoris Jenkins on their board btw. B is too much for a project corner at #10, an oversized tackle, and then a few decent picks later. This entire draft is tied to the success Gilmore has. |
Fair enough I will agree to disagree on Gilmore, Technique is definitely coach able, and I would say he will be above average against the run and will jam receivers at the line, which indicates he can play more than just Nickel right away and the potential of quality pass rush Buffalo has both on the edge and interior and the ball hawking Safeties we have with Jairus Byrd and George Wilson indicates he is a very good fit in our scheme. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39510
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | | Pete Caroll said he will try to get him at least 650 snaps and again i don't buy into that whole you don't draft a situational player if he is great at one thing that you want. |
The average number of defensive snaps per game is roughly 60, and the expectations of Pete Carroll call for Irvin to play roughly 2/3rds of the defensive snaps. If Irvin is playing that many snaps, the Seahawks are either playing catch up or the Seahawks are in the process of getting destroyed. |
Is Irvin really that bad against the run, if he is playing standup OLB. How is he any different than any other 3-4 OLB prospect in that regard. Its usually an acquired skill set anyway and with guys like Bryant and Mebane eating up blocks, Irvin should have the athleticism to seal the edge and get into the back field. I expect Irvin to get a lot of playing time opposite of Clemons at SLB as a rookie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tatupu_64
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 17046
Location: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | Let me put it this way one of Irvin's knocks is he will be brought on the field as a specialist to do one thing get after the QB who honestly cares if that is his role if he puts up double digit sack numbers?
Now if your questioning whether he can do that fine i get that but i don't think its right to knock a guy because he does one thing that you really want him to do. |
You don't draft for situational pass rushers in the first round. That can get you fired as a GM. Right now, the only time you could be comfortable putting Bruce Irvin in is on obvious passing downs like third and long. You can't really put him in other times because he's going to get washed out in the running game. |
Really? Because that's what San Fran did. They drafted a situational pass rusher who will eventually be a starter. That's EXACTLY what Seattle is doing.
_________________
Props to the Ramster
Seattle's Original Bruce Irvin Supporter
ET and Mebane's Biggest Supporter
FFMD2 13 GM |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BillsGuy82
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 6645
Location: Niagara Falls
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Tatupu_64 wrote: | | CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | Let me put it this way one of Irvin's knocks is he will be brought on the field as a specialist to do one thing get after the QB who honestly cares if that is his role if he puts up double digit sack numbers?
Now if your questioning whether he can do that fine i get that but i don't think its right to knock a guy because he does one thing that you really want him to do. |
You don't draft for situational pass rushers in the first round. That can get you fired as a GM. Right now, the only time you could be comfortable putting Bruce Irvin in is on obvious passing downs like third and long. You can't really put him in other times because he's going to get washed out in the running game. |
Really? Because that's what San Fran did. They drafted a situational pass rusher who will eventually be a starter. That's EXACTLY what Seattle is doing. |
Really? What happened with San Fran and the majority of other situational pass rushers selected in the 1st round is a rarity.See Aaron Maybin and Gholston of recent and Aldon Smith wasn't selected asbprimarily a situational pass rush, he was Raw and projected as an every down player over time, something Irvin in all likely hood won't be. I am gonna place Irvin closer to Maybin and Gholston than Smith right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 48143
Location: New New York
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Tatupu_64 wrote: | | Really? Because that's what San Fran did. They drafted a situational pass rusher who will eventually be a starter. That's EXACTLY what Seattle is doing. |
However SF drafted a guy who had the skillset to be a full time player immediately, he plays the run well as well as his ability to get to the quarterback. Aldon Smith was able to play on 1st and 2 downs in running situations because he could play the run well.
Irvin can get the QB, no doubt, but he is a liability against the run and he has not had much experience in coverage. He has no second aspect to his game. He is a one down player. He is a passing situation only player, at least as a rookie.
_________________
Patrick Peterson - 92 targets, 40 catches allowed, 602 yards, 6 TD's, 7 INT's
The Big Brain am winning again, I am the Greetest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chiefer
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 9899
Location: You ever been conscious in a coma?
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
I honestly don't see Irvin as that big of a liability against the run as people are saying. He's pretty tough and displays more strength then his size would indicate on top of that he plays smart.
But in today's league that honestly doesn't matter to much, you're all very quick to say that RBs aren't worth top 10 picks for the very reason that this is league where 5000 yard passers are becoming more and more common. A league where championships are won off the backs not of Great RBs, but great QBs and even better DLs with great pass rushers.
_________________
| Iggles wrote: | | Come on, man, these are the kinds of statements that make Chiefer look 100% right |
Last edited by Chiefer on Fri May 04, 2012 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 12479
|
| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| BillsGuy82 wrote: | | Tatupu_64 wrote: | | CWood21 wrote: | | Sacks98 wrote: | Let me put it this way one of Irvin's knocks is he will be brought on the field as a specialist to do one thing get after the QB who honestly cares if that is his role if he puts up double digit sack numbers?
Now if your questioning whether he can do that fine i get that but i don't think its right to knock a guy because he does one thing that you really want him to do. |
You don't draft for situational pass rushers in the first round. That can get you fired as a GM. Right now, the only time you could be comfortable putting Bruce Irvin in is on obvious passing downs like third and long. You can't really put him in other times because he's going to get washed out in the running game. |
Really? Because that's what San Fran did. They drafted a situational pass rusher who will eventually be a starter. That's EXACTLY what Seattle is doing. |
Really? What happened with San Fran and the majority of other situational pass rushers selected in the 1st round is a rarity.See Aaron Maybin and Gholston of recent and Aldon Smith wasn't selected asbprimarily a situational pass rush, he was Raw and projected as an every down player over time, something Irvin in all likely hood won't be. I am gonna place Irvin closer to Maybin and Gholston than Smith right now. |
How was Gholston a situational pass rusher only?
_________________
Thanks Rammy... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
