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Spectre
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1562
Location: Parma Heights, OH
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 Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: | are you kidding me?
have you seen his sports science?
his accuracy and timing are impeccable |
I didn't recall the pocket collapsing on his Sports Science. 
He throws a very nice ball with good anticipation more often than not when the pocket is nice and clean and he's able to throw in rhythm/not disrupted. I don't think anyone will dispute his ability to hit a bean can off a fence post. When he faces pressure and is thrown off though, his accuracy can be very spotty. We've already been through one #3 who looked like God's gift to quarterbacking in shorts but was frustrating as hell on the field.
Sports Science is cool and shows his underlying raw talent but if you haven't, try to find some games on some of these draft sites that I'm probably not allowed to link here. I've watched a handful of his games (aside from the ones I saw during the course of the season) in cutup form and honestly, I'm not much of a fan. Watch his game against Texas this year... you'll see the some struggles under pressure and a few dogsh*t throws/decisions.
If Weeden were 23 (which is an insane argument to begin with, not sure how he got our FO thinking along those lines), he'd make an attractive pick because he has a lot of potential. When I watch the 28-29 year old version though, I don't know that I see a guy that's going to light it up as a rookie and that's a big problem. If he struggles as a rookie and appears to need years of development time, there's a legit chance we pull the plug if we're in a position to draft a stud next year. I hope I'm wrong but what I've seen from him so far is really a mixed bag at best. |
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brownie man
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 6082
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:25 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe how people don't respect how much of a winner weddon is. 28 or not he won big games he has that it factor with him. Give him a chance to learn I think he's going to be really good.
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fte88
Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 1474
Location: Cleveland Heights, OH
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| brownie man wrote: | | I don't believe how people don't respect how much of a winner weddon is. 28 or not he won big games he has that it factor with him. Give him a chance to learn I think he's going to be really good. |
Meh. I think Weeden can be pretty good, but not because he was a winner. Colt and Vince Young were winners in college, too. That hasn't exactly helped them in the NFL. |
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8679
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Some nice posts in here so far.
I honestly don't see a big problem with his reads/progressions. I saw some examples where he went through his progressions and delivered the ball. I was actually pleasantly surprised about that part.
The bad throw/decision under pressure thing is definitely a concern. Our coaches have some work to do with him. There were a few instances where he stood in the pocket and delivered nicely under pressure, but there were a lot of instances where he just drifted back and winged one off his back foot. You can't completely avoid that, but he does it way too much, imo. Again, it's something for the coaches to target.
His accuracy is good, but not great. Overall, he looks the part when things are going well. His throwing motion is pretty flawless, imo. Lots of talent to work with, that's for sure. It's going to be frustrating at times, but he's going to make some good plays.
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Cleveland Browns: We put the fun in dysfunction.
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duke2056
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 7731
Location: Cleveland area
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:39 am Post subject: |
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The age is a pretty big concern to me, which is why I hated the pick.
He will not mature more physically. By the time he learns the offense his physical attributes will have already started to decline.
Most rookie QBs come in and improve their overall strength. Weeden won't.
I guess I simply see this as much more of a problem than most people see it.
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NEW 2011 draft prediction.
Cam Newton's dad accepts 200k for talking Cam into attending the draft, but Cam denies any knowledge of his dad getting money. |
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ReggieCamp
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 8679
Location: Canonsburg, PA
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| duke2056 wrote: | The age is a pretty big concern to me, which is why I hated the pick.
He will not mature more physically. By the time he learns the offense his physical attributes will have already started to decline.
Most rookie QBs come in and improve their overall strength. Weeden won't.
I guess I simply see this as much more of a problem than most people see it. |
Age is definitely a concern, but that has much more to do with the draft process than it does with how he performs. As far as the coaches are concerned, he's a rookie, whether he's 22 or 28. His strengths are still his strengths, and his weaknesses are still there.
Is there an increased sense of urgency to play him because he's 28? Oh yes. But the FO already discussed and analyzed all that before the pick was made. The FO and coaches think they can make him into a high-performing QB quickly. Now they have to actually do the work.
I agree that it's a huge risk, but one thing is certain. The people who were clamoring for a sense of urgency will now get their wish (I know you weren't one of them, duke). Huge amounts of pressure are now on both the coaches and Weeden. We'll see what we have soon enough.
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Cleveland Browns: We put the fun in dysfunction.
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mark83
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I believe that Weeden would be a top 5 pick as well if not for his age. He beat all of the top QBs from this class when they played each other, his accuracy is crazy good and he has a strong arm. Look at some tape of his and he almost always puts the ball where only his WR can go make a play for it, that is good. And as far as his age how long do you think it will take a man that was drafted in the 2nd round to be a pitcher will take to learn the system. If it takes him a year he will be 30 and yoru prime years for a QB are usually when you are 28 or 29 until you are about 34-35. Good pick, even though I think we could have had him in the 2nd but it doesnt matter if he produces, which I think he will. Greg Little is going to look like a beast this year.
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Onizuka
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 653
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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The only reason I would agree that he would of been a top 5 pick is because teams usually picking in top 5 are in need of better QB play....outside of that I wouldn't of listed him as one of the elite talents of the draft.
Weeden can make all the throws asked of him, but, as others have stated, he really needs to work on dealing with pressure. Every QB gets thrown off a little bit when they feel pressure, but, the great ones usually find a way to overcome it. If you watched some of the games where he got pressured, you can see the difference. Watch the games vs. Iowa State and Texas....you can see some of his bad decisions or some of his throws where he was trying to force it, especially to Blackmon. I just hope he learns to deal with it quickly since it seems when he got blitz a lot, either his cmp % dropped or he began to check down a lot...and facing the Ravens, Steelers, and even the Bengals twice a year, he can expect a lot of Blitz coming his way...although having someone like Richardson should help  |
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Onizuka
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 653
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| mark83 wrote: | | I believe that Weeden would be a top 5 pick as well if not for his age. He beat all of the top QBs from this class when they played each other, his accuracy is crazy good and he has a strong arm. Look at some tape of his and he almost always puts the ball where only his WR can go make a play for it, that is good. And as far as his age how long do you think it will take a man that was drafted in the 2nd round to be a pitcher will take to learn the system. If it takes him a year he will be 30 and yoru prime years for a QB are usually when you are 28 or 29 until you are about 34-35. Good pick, even though I think we could have had him in the 2nd but it doesnt matter if he produces, which I think he will. Greg Little is going to look like a beast this year. |
Just because he beat the teams of Luck, RG3, and Tannehill...doesn't necessarily mean he is a better QB. I will give him the edge over Tannehill since Tannehill is still raw, but, if Tannehill had another year under his belt, it might be different.
As I said, Weeden really needs to learn how to deal with pressure better...and quickly since he will be playing in the AFC North. Let's just hope having Cooper to throw to (mainly because of chemistry) and Richardson to hand it off to, will make his transition to the NFL smoothly. |
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nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12157
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: |
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If tannehill was a top 10, then a 22 year old Weeden absolutely goes top 5.
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 6087
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: |
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He handles pressure decently in these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsevlHpqatI
Not great but not bad either.
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mark83
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Weeden vs Luck, Weeden 29/42 399 3TD 1INT, Luck 27/31 347 2TD 1INT, and by the way Stanford had over 200 yards rushing while OSU had 16 so the game fell on Weeden to Win. Griffin vs Weeden, Griffin 33/50 425 1TD 2INT, Weeden 24/36 246 3TD 0INT. Weeden vs Tannehill. Weeden 47/60 438 2TD 0 INT, Tannehill28/47 309 2TD 3INT., so not only did his team beat those teams but he also looked just as good or better than the opposing QB. If you say his team won that is fine but guess what a good QB makes a difference, if you don't believe me that is fine ask the Colts fans about that one. My cousin is a big Dan Marino fan and I always pick on him because he says he is the best QB ever but I always give him hell about not winning a championship, and he said one man cant do it. Then you tell me that the colts would have been 1-15 with Peyton Manning, pretty much the same team he took to the super bowl a couple years ago. The thing I am getting at is that Weeden played some good ball against some good competition and he played up to their level and if Tannehill can be a top 10 pick than Weeden def.,would be a top 10 or even a top 10 pick.
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ditchdigger
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 14043
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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If 'if's and 'but's were candy and nuts, it'd be christmas every day.
Weeden is 28, was picked 22nd and is our QB. I don't get the need to hypothesize after the fact.
He has a handful flaws, but we wouldn't have selected him where we did if our coaches didn't believe that they could correct those flaws - or at the very least mitigate them. |
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Onizuka
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 653
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| mark83 wrote: | | Weeden vs Luck, Weeden 29/42 399 3TD 1INT, Luck 27/31 347 2TD 1INT, and by the way Stanford had over 200 yards rushing while OSU had 16 so the game fell on Weeden to Win. Griffin vs Weeden, Griffin 33/50 425 1TD 2INT, Weeden 24/36 246 3TD 0INT. Weeden vs Tannehill. Weeden 47/60 438 2TD 0 INT, Tannehill28/47 309 2TD 3INT., so not only did his team beat those teams but he also looked just as good or better than the opposing QB. If you say his team won that is fine but guess what a good QB makes a difference, if you don't believe me that is fine ask the Colts fans about that one. My cousin is a big Dan Marino fan and I always pick on him because he says he is the best QB ever but I always give him hell about not winning a championship, and he said one man cant do it. Then you tell me that the colts would have been 1-15 with Peyton Manning, pretty much the same team he took to the super bowl a couple years ago. The thing I am getting at is that Weeden played some good ball against some good competition and he played up to their level and if Tannehill can be a top 10 pick than Weeden def.,would be a top 10 or even a top 10 pick. |
So your telling me that if Weeden was 22-23, you'd choose him over Luck and RG3? Again, just because he performed better vs. the other QBs defenses doesn't mean he is the better QB. Just look at the stats you listed...Luck threw the ball less because their running game was working and he still almost had the same stats as Weeden. Baylor runs an air raid offense that has a high risk/reward factor with it, similiar to the Saints offense and why Drew Brees has so many INTs every year...also did you see Baylor's defense? No body on that defense knows what to do once they wrap a guy up nor can they cover a WR that is remotely good. Tannehill was in his 9th game as a starting QB in college when he faced OSU...although I would still give Weeden the edge over him....Tannehill was only taken 8th overall because as most teams picking in the top 10-15 range need better QB play...so of course Weeden would of been picked in the top 10 possibly top 5 if he was younger and produced similiar numbers.
| ditchdigger wrote: | If 'if's and 'but's were candy and nuts, it'd be christmas every day.
Weeden is 28, was picked 22nd and is our QB. I don't get the need to hypothesize after the fact.
He has a handful flaws, but we wouldn't have selected him where we did if our coaches didn't believe that they could correct those flaws - or at the very least mitigate them. |
True. But it's always fun to banter at times, especially with topics like this and during the offseason...hell Blaine Gabbert was a top 10 pick, no reason Weeden couldnt have been. |
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Spectre
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1562
Location: Parma Heights, OH
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| Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| ditchdigger wrote: | | He has a handful flaws, but we wouldn't have selected him where we did if our coaches didn't believe that they could correct those flaws - or at the very least mitigate them. |
I believe they can correct them, the big question is how quickly. If coaches get in there and are able to correct him right away, then great. If he ends up being a 4 year project QB, we're likely going to be considering a replacement after Year 1 and that's going to be depressing.
Never underestimate a coach's ability to overestimate their ability to fix a player. Tools always get overdrafted. Unfortunately, our tools are 29 years old this year and we can't afford to waste multiple years developing a guy that old. Hopefully they know what they're doing. |
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