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| GRADE? |
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18% |
[ 3 ] |
| B |
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50% |
[ 8 ] |
| C |
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18% |
[ 3 ] |
| D |
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12% |
[ 2 ] |
| F |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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 Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| WareWolf94 wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: | | Dirk Gently wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: |
Yeah, he actually said it was easier to take chances back then and that missing on a pick did not hurt as much because he had so many to play with. |
And miss they did. I did a study a while back on success rates. I showed Jimmy at about 33%, while the Parcells drafts came in at around 50%.
It'll be interesting to go back and see the Phillips and Garrett success rates.
One thing is very clear, however-- starting with the arrival of Parcells, the head coach has been the ones calling the shots on the draft. A lot of people seem to feel Wade was chosen for his submission to Jerry, but I think it could be argued that Jerry gave Wade too much of what he wanted, personnel wise (letting Burnett go to bring in Brooking, for example).
Like I said, I'll be real interested to compare the Wade and Garrett picks, after we get a few more of the latter. |
Dirk, I'm not sure if you are doing this intentionally or unintentionally. You are either deliberately misleading everybody or your are making one of the worst assessments EVER. Jimmy drafts were 12 rounds so of course the odds are stacked against the lower round guys. So what are you trying to pull here? The 89 draft is an A+ draft. The 90 draft includes a HOFer, a damn good DT, and a shark. The 91 draft was Awesome with 7 starters (8 if you include Prichett) and a SB MVP. The 92 draft produced 3 damn good starters and a HOF candidate and that's not including Jimmy Smith. The 93 draft produced 3 damn good starters not including Ron Stone, a probowler for the giants.
That's just a ridiculous argument to make... That jimmy didn't hit as good a percentage as parcells when Parcells drafted 7 rounds and jimmy drafted 12. That's just stupid. If you compare apples to apples... Parcells 7 rounds vs Jimmy's first 7 rounds, jimmy will dominate Parcells in every category. |
Why would it matter anyways? I would hope he's including UDFAs in his percentages and at that point the amount of players would come out in the wash.
Although...I'm sure Wade Phillips was targeting Dez Bryant.  |
Perhaps he's only comparing jimmy's drafts with the dolphins and not the cowboys. I guess thats a possibility, but since he's quoting me talking about the Jerry Jones interview and how they could take risks, it seems unlikely that he was talking about the dolphins.
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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Dirk Gently
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 5014
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I compared Jimmy's first 7 rounds against Parcells. I did not take into account rounds after 7, treating them as UDFAs. I did not rate on anything other than "useful pick" or not.
For example, Rob Pettiti (sp?) started 16 games as a rookie. That was for a 6th rounder, a "hit" and counted no more or less (for the purposes of my study) than Ratliff, who was, of course, a far better pick. I simply looked at the percentage of draft picks that were "hits."
I would summarize by saying Jimmy was like a power hitter-- didn't hit as often, but when he did, it was usually huge. Parcells went more for average-- successful more often, but less impactful on the individual players.
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | I compared Jimmy's first 7 rounds against Parcells. I did not take into account rounds after 7, treating them as UDFAs. I did not rate on anything other than "useful pick" or not.
For example, Rob Pettiti (sp?) started 16 games as a rookie. That was for a 6th rounder, a "hit" and counted no more or less (for the purposes of my study) than Ratliff, who was, of course, a far better pick. I simply looked at the percentage of draft picks that were "hits."
I would summarize by saying Jimmy was like a power hitter-- didn't hit as often, but when he did, it was usually huge. Parcells went more for average-- successful more often, but less impactful on the individual players. |
Dirk, no offense, but that is easily the stupidest grading system I've ever heard of. The guy who played one season, gave up 16 sacks and got cut the before the following season was a "hit." WTF? Under that criteria, any [inappropriate/removed] could draft all all "hits"... all they'd have to do is play the P.O.S. he drafted. So, Alan Ball was a hit too, right?
Not to single people out... but do you guys NOW see now why it's necessary to do this??? We've got people arguing that Jerry and BP or Jerry and WP had "hits" when they draft complete P.O.S. like Petitti and Ball.
_________________
Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Slam - one would need a much more sophisticated grading system to more accurately assess the drafts overseen by Johnson and Parcells. The following categories should be considered:
- Hall of Famer
- Multiple All-Pro Selection
- Multiple Pro Bowl Selection (but no All-Pros)
- Solid NFL starter (minimum of 48 games as a starter, which is 3 seasons)
- Regular NFL player, usually a backup or specials teams player (minimum of 80 games or 5 seasons in the NFL with less than 50% as a starter)
- NFL player (minimum of 16 games in the NFL but less than 80 games. Basically a guy who did enough to stay in the NFL but not enough to make his mark)
- Cup-of-Coffee (a player who played less than 16 games in the NFL)
You could then attribute points to each category to determine how well JJ and BP drafted.
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WareWolf94
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 5296
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | Dirk Gently wrote: | I compared Jimmy's first 7 rounds against Parcells. I did not take into account rounds after 7, treating them as UDFAs. I did not rate on anything other than "useful pick" or not.
For example, Rob Pettiti (sp?) started 16 games as a rookie. That was for a 6th rounder, a "hit" and counted no more or less (for the purposes of my study) than Ratliff, who was, of course, a far better pick. I simply looked at the percentage of draft picks that were "hits."
I would summarize by saying Jimmy was like a power hitter-- didn't hit as often, but when he did, it was usually huge. Parcells went more for average-- successful more often, but less impactful on the individual players. |
Dirk, no offense, but that is easily the stupidest grading system I've ever heard of. The guy who played one season, gave up 16 sacks and got cut the before the following season was a "hit." WTF? Under that criteria, any [inappropriate/removed] could draft all all "hits"... all they'd have to do is play the P.O.S. he drafted. So, Alan Ball was a hit too, right?
Not to single people out... but do you guys NOW see now why it's necessary to do this??? We've got people arguing that Jerry and BP or Jerry and WP had "hits" when they draft complete P.O.S. like Petitti and Ball. |
Bill Parcells didnt have the benefit of "The Great Train Robbery" either.
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Dirk Gently
Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 5014
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: |
Dirk, no offense, but that is easily the stupidest grading system I've ever heard of. The guy who played one season, gave up 16 sacks and got cut the before the following season was a "hit." WTF? Under that criteria, any [inappropriate/removed] could draft all all "hits"... all they'd have to do is play the P.O.S. he drafted. So, Alan Ball was a hit too, right?
Not to single people out... but do you guys NOW see now why it's necessary to do this??? We've got people arguing that Jerry and BP or Jerry and WP had "hits" when they draft complete P.O.S. like Petitti and Ball. |
5.3% of 6th round picks start 9 games. That immediately puts Rob Pettiti in the top 5% of 6th round picks. That's a hit
Keep banging your "we can't draft" drum while we just had our best draft in ages and potentially one of our best ever. You sound so *realistic*.
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The_Slamman
Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 11669
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Dirk Gently wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: |
Dirk, no offense, but that is easily the stupidest grading system I've ever heard of. The guy who played one season, gave up 16 sacks and got cut the before the following season was a "hit." WTF? Under that criteria, any [inappropriate/removed] could draft all all "hits"... all they'd have to do is play the P.O.S. he drafted. So, Alan Ball was a hit too, right?
Not to single people out... but do you guys NOW see now why it's necessary to do this??? We've got people arguing that Jerry and BP or Jerry and WP had "hits" when they draft complete P.O.S. like Petitti and Ball. |
5.3% of 6th round picks start 9 games. That immediately puts Rob Pettiti in the top 5% of 6th round picks. That's a hit
Keep banging your "we can't draft" drum while we just had our best draft in ages and potentially one of our best ever. You sound so *realistic*. |
Alan Ball started a lot more games than Petitti... that doesn't make it a success. A desperate coach could start his mom at right tackle... it doesn't mean his mom was a "hit." It just means that the coach was so desperate that he had no other choice but to live with the trash. Trust me... you are the ONLY cowboy fan on this planet that would classify Rob Petitti's 16 sack season as a "hit."
_________________
Quote from May 7, 2013...
| MaddHatter wrote: | | Brian Price is still as talented as he ever was. |
On May 9th, 2013, Brian Price was waived by the Dallas Cowboys. |
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TheStarStillShines
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8260
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | Dirk Gently wrote: | | The_Slamman wrote: |
Dirk, no offense, but that is easily the stupidest grading system I've ever heard of. The guy who played one season, gave up 16 sacks and got cut the before the following season was a "hit." WTF? Under that criteria, any [inappropriate/removed] could draft all all "hits"... all they'd have to do is play the P.O.S. he drafted. So, Alan Ball was a hit too, right?
Not to single people out... but do you guys NOW see now why it's necessary to do this??? We've got people arguing that Jerry and BP or Jerry and WP had "hits" when they draft complete P.O.S. like Petitti and Ball. |
5.3% of 6th round picks start 9 games. That immediately puts Rob Pettiti in the top 5% of 6th round picks. That's a hit
Keep banging your "we can't draft" drum while we just had our best draft in ages and potentially one of our best ever. You sound so *realistic*. |
Alan Ball started a lot more games than Petitti... that doesn't make it a success. A desperate coach could start his mom at right tackle... it doesn't mean his mom was a "hit." It just means that the coach was so desperate that he had no other choice but to live with the trash. Trust me... you are the ONLY cowboy fan on this planet that would classify Rob Petitti's 16 sack season as a "hit." |
I guess Quincy Carter was a "hit".
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