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IronMike84
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18577
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | Admittedly I’ve never been a big fan of Chris Williams but I’m struggling to see him beating out Webb for the starting gig at LT…let’s remember the FO & staff had such little confidence in Williams that they went out and brought in Orlando Pace who the vast majority knew was done…Williams still played on the outside in 09…all be it at RT…but he was consistently lit up at that spot giving up double digit sacks and over 40 QB pressures in the 16 games…I’m the first to point out the weaknesses in Webb’s game but I’m also one of the few who fully believe that if he can live up to his raw talent and use his natural tools to the best of his abilities he could be a good LT for us…I just think this is the make or break year for many of the Oline and sitting Webb at this point would be a complete waste of the last 2 seasons…personally I think Williams best role would be as a swing tackle who can also backup at both guard spots which would allow a lot of flexibility on gamedays. |
I certainly don't question Webb's upside but I think that the potential of Williams is on that same level. |
Potential is always a hard thing to gauge when it’s clear both guys have holes in their games…the only reason I would say Webb has a higher upside is because he has better physical tools than Williams…other than that it could be a push since we really can’t be sure where both guys ceilings are. |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18577
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
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DaMike
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 3349
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd put there upside on the same level. If you put a gun to my head I'd lean towards Williams. I hope Webb improves his game and "wins" the job. I personally think it will be handed to Webb though. |
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SLCbear
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 453
Location: CELTICSbasketball
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
Idk, I think he could thrive inside because he wouldnt have to think as much......that's a huge part of his problem at tackle (too much do read and react to)
He's plenty strong and athletic to be a very good blocker.....his height could be a factor as you pointed out, but that's fixable with technique and the fact that there is alot less space for him to cover and lock down....so would be much more difficult for defenders to catch him off guard/balance
He needs to have a clear and singular (as can be) assignment/purpose when he lines up to thrive IMO. Playing inside would help this a lot ! |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18577
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
Idk, I think he could thrive inside because he wouldnt have to think as much......that's a huge part of his problem at tackle (too much do read and react to)
He's plenty strong and athletic to be a very good blocker.....his height could be a factor as you pointed out, but that's fixable with technique and the fact that there is alot less space for him to cover and lock down....so would be much more difficult for defenders to catch him off guard/balance
He needs to have a clear and singular (as can be) assignment/purpose when he lines up to thrive IMO. Playing inside would help this a lot ! |
Covering space isn’t a problem for Webb because of his length (which wouldn’t be a strength inside) Webb held his own and dominated against speed rushers last year…he completely shut Trent Cole down because Cole only had the outside speed rush…it’s when guys try to go straight through him…i.e Cameron Wake who in truth embarrassed Webb a few years back…that Webb has a problem. |
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SLCbear
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 453
Location: CELTICSbasketball
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
Idk, I think he could thrive inside because he wouldnt have to think as much......that's a huge part of his problem at tackle (too much do read and react to)
He's plenty strong and athletic to be a very good blocker.....his height could be a factor as you pointed out, but that's fixable with technique and the fact that there is alot less space for him to cover and lock down....so would be much more difficult for defenders to catch him off guard/balance
He needs to have a clear and singular (as can be) assignment/purpose when he lines up to thrive IMO. Playing inside would help this a lot ! |
Covering space isn’t a problem for Webb because of his length (which wouldn’t be a strength inside) Webb held his own and dominated against speed rushers last year…he completely shut Trent Cole down because Cole only had the outside speed rush…it’s when guys try to go straight through him…i.e Cameron Wake who in truth embarrassed Webb a few years back…that Webb has a problem. |
It's not Webb's ability to cover in space that I'm referring to.....it's that the defenders he's blocking will have less space to work with.
It's too conjested inside for anything real fancy and if Webb knows whats coming at him (more or less) within a confined space, he'll be able to hold his ground....for me it's about getting Webb into a smaller, more fixed, less varying situation. He's not a thinker ! |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18577
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
Idk, I think he could thrive inside because he wouldnt have to think as much......that's a huge part of his problem at tackle (too much do read and react to)
He's plenty strong and athletic to be a very good blocker.....his height could be a factor as you pointed out, but that's fixable with technique and the fact that there is alot less space for him to cover and lock down....so would be much more difficult for defenders to catch him off guard/balance
He needs to have a clear and singular (as can be) assignment/purpose when he lines up to thrive IMO. Playing inside would help this a lot ! |
Covering space isn’t a problem for Webb because of his length (which wouldn’t be a strength inside) Webb held his own and dominated against speed rushers last year…he completely shut Trent Cole down because Cole only had the outside speed rush…it’s when guys try to go straight through him…i.e Cameron Wake who in truth embarrassed Webb a few years back…that Webb has a problem. |
It's not Webb's ability to cover in space that I'm referring to.....it's that the defenders he's blocking will have less space to work with.
It's too conjested inside for anything real fancy and if Webb knows whats coming at him (more or less) within a confined space, he'll be able to hold his ground....for me it's about getting Webb into a smaller, more fixed, less varying situation. He's not a thinker ! |
I think you are vastly oversimplifying what happens inside the trenches…there is a reason quality UT’s…5 techs & 3-4 NTs get paid so much…those guys can be even more disruptive than the outside guys…Webb has shown that he struggles to hold his ground against rushers when they get into his body…that would happing more on the interior than on the outside. |
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blkwdw13
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | Admittedly I’ve never been a big fan of Chris Williams but I’m struggling to see him beating out Webb for the starting gig at LT…let’s remember the FO & staff had such little confidence in Williams that they went out and brought in Orlando Pace who the vast majority knew was done…Williams still played on the outside in 09…all be it at RT…but he was consistently lit up at that spot giving up double digit sacks and over 40 QB pressures in the 16 games…I’m the first to point out the weaknesses in Webb’s game but I’m also one of the few who fully believe that if he can live up to his raw talent and use his natural tools to the best of his abilities he could be a good LT for us…I just think this is the make or break year for many of the Oline and sitting Webb at this point would be a complete waste of the last 2 seasons…personally I think Williams best role would be as a swing tackle who can also backup at both guard spots which would allow a lot of flexibility on gamedays. |
Sorry this couldn't be more false, he only gave up 8 sacks that season with 9 penalties not great but not what you are making him out to be either. And just to make it look interesting and a reason I'm glad they a opening up a competition between the two Webb gave up more sacks last season than Williams has in his career.
Williams- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8791&team=3
Webb- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24194&team=3
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AZBearsFan
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 8907
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| blkwdw13 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | Admittedly I’ve never been a big fan of Chris Williams but I’m struggling to see him beating out Webb for the starting gig at LT…let’s remember the FO & staff had such little confidence in Williams that they went out and brought in Orlando Pace who the vast majority knew was done…Williams still played on the outside in 09…all be it at RT…but he was consistently lit up at that spot giving up double digit sacks and over 40 QB pressures in the 16 games…I’m the first to point out the weaknesses in Webb’s game but I’m also one of the few who fully believe that if he can live up to his raw talent and use his natural tools to the best of his abilities he could be a good LT for us…I just think this is the make or break year for many of the Oline and sitting Webb at this point would be a complete waste of the last 2 seasons…personally I think Williams best role would be as a swing tackle who can also backup at both guard spots which would allow a lot of flexibility on gamedays. |
Sorry this couldn't be more false, he only gave up 8 sacks that season with 9 penalties not great but not what you are making him out to be either. And just to make it look interesting and a reason I'm glad they a opening up a competition between the two Webb gave up more sacks last season than Williams has in his career.
Williams- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8791&team=3
Webb- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24194&team=3 |
Are they making it an open competition? I haven't seen that. Just because Williams is back at LT doesn't mean it'll be that type of situation.
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here. |
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GRRLacher
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 20640
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | | Are they making it an open competition? I haven't seen that. Just because Williams is back at LT doesn't mean it'll be that type of situation. |
In my best Lovie voice.....ahem...."Well, I can tell you that we've moved Chris into a position where we think he can be a strength for our team and create more competition which is what we are looking for at all the positions, not just left tackle. So we'll go into camp with him working at tackle and were happy with that and we'll go from there."
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blkwdw13
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| AZBearsFan wrote: | | blkwdw13 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | Admittedly I’ve never been a big fan of Chris Williams but I’m struggling to see him beating out Webb for the starting gig at LT…let’s remember the FO & staff had such little confidence in Williams that they went out and brought in Orlando Pace who the vast majority knew was done…Williams still played on the outside in 09…all be it at RT…but he was consistently lit up at that spot giving up double digit sacks and over 40 QB pressures in the 16 games…I’m the first to point out the weaknesses in Webb’s game but I’m also one of the few who fully believe that if he can live up to his raw talent and use his natural tools to the best of his abilities he could be a good LT for us…I just think this is the make or break year for many of the Oline and sitting Webb at this point would be a complete waste of the last 2 seasons…personally I think Williams best role would be as a swing tackle who can also backup at both guard spots which would allow a lot of flexibility on gamedays. |
Sorry this couldn't be more false, he only gave up 8 sacks that season with 9 penalties not great but not what you are making him out to be either. And just to make it look interesting and a reason I'm glad they a opening up a competition between the two Webb gave up more sacks last season than Williams has in his career.
Williams- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8791&team=3
Webb- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24194&team=3 |
Are they making it an open competition? I haven't seen that. Just because Williams is back at LT doesn't mean it'll be that type of situation. |
I thought that's what I heard but I could have mistaken that, but I hope that's whats going to happen.
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7067
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: chris williams moving back to tackle |
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| bzane wrote: | | ChicagoAl wrote: | | ta wrote: | http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/7937634/sources-chicago-bears-move-chris-williams-tackle
not a major surprise. at least they are making this move now and not half way through training camp. |
He is listed as a T one the roster on the NFL Bears site and as G/T on the team's official site.
It is unlikely that he will start at LT in spite of the hopes of many. |
Isn't Chris Williams going into his fifth year? 2008, wasn't it? And he was moved inside to guard before, after the Bears spent a first on him, with the idea that he'd be a left tackle-?
I don't get to see the Bears much, but what's the odds that he's going to turn out to be that left tackle they envisioned all along, if he hasn't done so after four years in the NFL? |
Like Webb Williams has been bounced along the line. CW did not do a bad job at LT and would not do a bad job now. I don't believe he will beat out Webb but, I have to say, neither has been done any favors by the way the Bears have used them. Some, if not all of that was, necessity but it does not take a genius to know that playing one position for the first time for a year then getting moved to another for the next is not a good way to develop Olinemen. I have to point out that there were many here who were very upset by those moves at the time. |
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Madmike90
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 18577
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| blkwdw13 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | Admittedly I’ve never been a big fan of Chris Williams but I’m struggling to see him beating out Webb for the starting gig at LT…let’s remember the FO & staff had such little confidence in Williams that they went out and brought in Orlando Pace who the vast majority knew was done…Williams still played on the outside in 09…all be it at RT…but he was consistently lit up at that spot giving up double digit sacks and over 40 QB pressures in the 16 games…I’m the first to point out the weaknesses in Webb’s game but I’m also one of the few who fully believe that if he can live up to his raw talent and use his natural tools to the best of his abilities he could be a good LT for us…I just think this is the make or break year for many of the Oline and sitting Webb at this point would be a complete waste of the last 2 seasons…personally I think Williams best role would be as a swing tackle who can also backup at both guard spots which would allow a lot of flexibility on gamedays. |
Sorry this couldn't be more false, he only gave up 8 sacks that season with 9 penalties not great but not what you are making him out to be either. And just to make it look interesting and a reason I'm glad they a opening up a competition between the two Webb gave up more sacks last season than Williams has in his career.
Williams- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8791&team=3
Webb- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24194&team=3 |
The stats I was using were from Pro Football Focus but the link won’t work anymore since they have started charging for their site…none of these sites are full proof so maybe Williams wasn’t as bad as they said…that said I can remember him being really bad in some of those games…either way I’m still struggling to how Williams is going to beat out Webb. |
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ak06max
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 1202
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| GRRLacher wrote: | | AZBearsFan wrote: | | Are they making it an open competition? I haven't seen that. Just because Williams is back at LT doesn't mean it'll be that type of situation. |
In my best Lovie voice.....ahem...."Well, I can tell you that we've moved Chris into a position where we think he can be a strength for our team and create more competition which is what we are looking for at all the positions, not just left tackle. So we'll go into camp with him working at tackle and were happy with that and we'll go from there." |
Wow perfect. You could of ended i will take your questions |
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