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blkwdw13
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 1065
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | blkwdw13 wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | Admittedly I’ve never been a big fan of Chris Williams but I’m struggling to see him beating out Webb for the starting gig at LT…let’s remember the FO & staff had such little confidence in Williams that they went out and brought in Orlando Pace who the vast majority knew was done…Williams still played on the outside in 09…all be it at RT…but he was consistently lit up at that spot giving up double digit sacks and over 40 QB pressures in the 16 games…I’m the first to point out the weaknesses in Webb’s game but I’m also one of the few who fully believe that if he can live up to his raw talent and use his natural tools to the best of his abilities he could be a good LT for us…I just think this is the make or break year for many of the Oline and sitting Webb at this point would be a complete waste of the last 2 seasons…personally I think Williams best role would be as a swing tackle who can also backup at both guard spots which would allow a lot of flexibility on gamedays. |
Sorry this couldn't be more false, he only gave up 8 sacks that season with 9 penalties not great but not what you are making him out to be either. And just to make it look interesting and a reason I'm glad they a opening up a competition between the two Webb gave up more sacks last season than Williams has in his career.
Williams- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8791&team=3
Webb- http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=24194&team=3 |
The stats I was using were from Pro Football Focus but the link won’t work anymore since they have started charging for their site…none of these sites are full proof so maybe Williams wasn’t as bad as they said…that said I can remember him being really bad in some of those games…either way I’m still struggling to how Williams is going to beat out Webb. |
The thing with PFF is they don't have a set way to say what a pressure is and they also don"t have the same people watching the video so it is very subjective on stats like that. And anyone that pays what they are asking to see the stats on that site are out of my mind IMO.
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SLCbear
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 453
Location: CELTICSbasketball
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Madmike90 wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
Idk, I think he could thrive inside because he wouldnt have to think as much......that's a huge part of his problem at tackle (too much do read and react to)
He's plenty strong and athletic to be a very good blocker.....his height could be a factor as you pointed out, but that's fixable with technique and the fact that there is alot less space for him to cover and lock down....so would be much more difficult for defenders to catch him off guard/balance
He needs to have a clear and singular (as can be) assignment/purpose when he lines up to thrive IMO. Playing inside would help this a lot ! |
Covering space isn’t a problem for Webb because of his length (which wouldn’t be a strength inside) Webb held his own and dominated against speed rushers last year…he completely shut Trent Cole down because Cole only had the outside speed rush…it’s when guys try to go straight through him…i.e Cameron Wake who in truth embarrassed Webb a few years back…that Webb has a problem. |
It's not Webb's ability to cover in space that I'm referring to.....it's that the defenders he's blocking will have less space to work with.
It's too conjested inside for anything real fancy and if Webb knows whats coming at him (more or less) within a confined space, he'll be able to hold his ground....for me it's about getting Webb into a smaller, more fixed, less varying situation. He's not a thinker ! |
I think you are vastly oversimplifying what happens inside the trenches…there is a reason quality UT’s…5 techs & 3-4 NTs get paid so much…those guys can be even more disruptive than the outside guys…Webb has shown that he struggles to hold his ground against rushers when they get into his body…that would happing more on the interior than on the outside. |
I know that DTs can be just as disruptive, it's just different inside. Inside guys work in a more clearly defined and confined space....this would streamline things alot more for Webb. It's when guys get him moving one way and then go at him (or one way, then another, then at him) that he struggles.......DTs would have to start two or three yards deep (which Suh has done a handful of times) to pull something like this off
Webb is strong, has a great punch, and is able to get his hands on and lock onto defenders fairly well......and with his long arms should be able to learn how to more proactively keep guys from getting into his body in the first place.
You make a great point and I'm obviously projecting here, but really think he can figure it out and thrive on the inside..... |
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7060
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | | Madmike90 wrote: | | IronMike84 wrote: | | If Webb and Williams are battling for LT, I'd imagine the loser may default to swing tackle. But is there any upside to playing Webb inside? |
Personally I don’t think so…one of Webb’s biggest issues is guys getting into his body and bull rushing him…at 6-7” – 6-8” he would have a massive natural leverage disadvantage against most DTs who are more adept than most DEs at getting into a linemen’s body…I feel he would really struggle. |
Idk, I think he could thrive inside because he wouldnt have to think as much......that's a huge part of his problem at tackle (too much do read and react to)
He's plenty strong and athletic to be a very good blocker.....his height could be a factor as you pointed out, but that's fixable with technique and the fact that there is alot less space for him to cover and lock down....so would be much more difficult for defenders to catch him off guard/balance
He needs to have a clear and singular (as can be) assignment/purpose when he lines up to thrive IMO. Playing inside would help this a lot ! |
Covering space isn’t a problem for Webb because of his length (which wouldn’t be a strength inside) Webb held his own and dominated against speed rushers last year…he completely shut Trent Cole down because Cole only had the outside speed rush…it’s when guys try to go straight through him…i.e Cameron Wake who in truth embarrassed Webb a few years back…that Webb has a problem. |
It's not Webb's ability to cover in space that I'm referring to.....it's that the defenders he's blocking will have less space to work with.
It's too conjested inside for anything real fancy and if Webb knows whats coming at him (more or less) within a confined space, he'll be able to hold his ground....for me it's about getting Webb into a smaller, more fixed, less varying situation. He's not a thinker ! |
I think you are vastly oversimplifying what happens inside the trenches…there is a reason quality UT’s…5 techs & 3-4 NTs get paid so much…those guys can be even more disruptive than the outside guys…Webb has shown that he struggles to hold his ground against rushers when they get into his body…that would happing more on the interior than on the outside. |
I know that DTs can be just as disruptive, it's just different inside. Inside guys work in a more clearly defined and confined space....this would streamline things alot more for Webb. It's when guys get him moving one way and then go at him (or one way, then another, then at him) that he struggles.......DTs would have to start two or three yards deep (which Suh has done a handful of times) to pull something like this off
Webb is strong, has a great punch, and is able to get his hands on and lock onto defenders fairly well......and with his long arms should be able to learn how to more proactively keep guys from getting into his body in the first place.
You make a great point and I'm obviously projecting here, but really think he can figure it out and thrive on the inside..... |
He is too tall for the inside unless Jay grew a couple of inches during the offseason. |
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SLCbear
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 453
Location: CELTICSbasketball
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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^^
sure he's tall, but he'll be playing with his body bent in some form like 95% of the time.....so at 6'4 and mobile, Jay should be just fine
The more I think about this, the more it makes sense to see what he can do in there (he's able to bend exceptionally well)
.....he has more physical gifts than louis and spencer by a mile |
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 16408
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| SLCbear wrote: | ^^
sure he's tall, but he'll be playing with his body bent in some form like 95% of the time.....so at 6'4 and mobile, Jay should be just fine
The more I think about this, the more it makes sense to see what he can do in there (he's able to bend exceptionally well)
.....he has more physical gifts than louis and spencer by a mile |
im not sure i agree w/ this, a) spencer has a completely different skillset as hes a natural center, its just different their than any other position. B) im not sure u understand how much a freak of nature that louis is. He was a 300 lb athletic pass rwceiving te that has been onverted to an ol. He can play at least 3 positions on the line and possibly 4, and unlike webb (who i happen to like a lot) louis has a bonifide mean streak, he'll flat out beat a guy up and maul him. Webb at this point is just an exceptional 330 lb athlete.
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| OneBadCat wrote: | | Ahah Okay first of all Gamble was lost to IR this year but when healthy he proved to be 2nd only to Revis last season. |
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ChicagoAl
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7060
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Superman(DH23) wrote: | | SLCbear wrote: | ^^
sure he's tall, but he'll be playing with his body bent in some form like 95% of the time.....so at 6'4 and mobile, Jay should be just fine
The more I think about this, the more it makes sense to see what he can do in there (he's able to bend exceptionally well)
.....he has more physical gifts than louis and spencer by a mile |
im not sure i agree w/ this, a) spencer has a completely different skillset as hes a natural center, its just different their than any other position. B) im not sure u understand how much a freak of nature that louis is. He was a 300 lb athletic pass rwceiving te that has been onverted to an ol. He can play at least 3 positions on the line and possibly 4, and unlike webb (who i happen to like a lot) louis has a bonifide mean streak, he'll flat out beat a guy up and maul him. Webb at this point is just an exceptional 330 lb athlete. |
Can you imagine if we could just transplant some of LL attitude into JW? Oooh baby now you're talking. |
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IronMike84
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 5906
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Louis destroyed his college QB after the guy poked him with a stick...  |
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