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JayAp07
Joined: 13 Jan 2011
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Eagles_808 wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | It's pretty standard to give a guy 3 seasons of play to develop. Graham has had 1 in which he played as well as any DE from his draft class. If he wants to use it as motivation or whatever fine, but calling him a bust right now is beyond premature. It's ignorance. Calling him a bust because he isn't immediately starting over a guy who got 18 sacks last year is also ignorance. It doesn't mean he won't end up a bust, but it absolutely does mean that it's way too soon to tell.
People have some unrealistic expectations. At least half of first round picks don't pan out at all. Of the rest, the vast majority end up as good starters at best. Most of those don't contribute much at all in their first year of play.
There are going to be some who continue to cry "bust" if he isn't the "starter" by the end of the year. Insane. Washburn uses a heavy line rotation, the word "starter" doesn't mean nearly as much as it might on another team. He is not getting a "pass" from people who say it's too soon to tell. He is getting a more realistic expectation from those people. So long as Graham is a positive contributor in the rotation this season, there is no possible way you can realistically call him a "bust". It just remains to be seen if that happens.
Seriously, I expect better from you guys. This is starting to look like TATE on the Eagles board. Let's not go that route, guys. We're better than that here. |
Thank you kdw!  Very well said. |
Sadly, it's beyond the point of comprehension for some people.
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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| killdawabbit wrote: | It's pretty standard to give a guy 3 seasons of play to develop. Graham has had 1 in which he played as well as any DE from his draft class. If he wants to use it as motivation or whatever fine, but calling him a bust right now is beyond premature. It's ignorance. Calling him a bust because he isn't immediately starting over a guy who got 18 sacks last year is also ignorance. It doesn't mean he won't end up a bust, but it absolutely does mean that it's way too soon to tell.
People have some unrealistic expectations. At least half of first round picks don't pan out at all. Of the rest, the vast majority end up as good starters at best. Most of those don't contribute much at all in their first year of play.
There are going to be some who continue to cry "bust" if he isn't the "starter" by the end of the year. Insane. Washburn uses a heavy line rotation, the word "starter" doesn't mean nearly as much as it might on another team. He is not getting a "pass" from people who say it's too soon to tell. He is getting a more realistic expectation from those people. So long as Graham is a positive contributor in the rotation this season, there is no possible way you can realistically call him a "bust". It just remains to be seen if that happens.
Seriously, I expect better from you guys. This is starting to look like TATE on the Eagles board. Let's not go that route, guys. We're better than that here. |
When you trade two 3rd round picks to move up and draft a player 13th overall in the draft, the expectations are pretty high. The expectation was that since Graham was a low ceiling but NFL ready player, he would come in and contribute immediately. He was supposed to be a DROY candidate lining up opposite of Cole. Instead he got benched because he got pushed around against the run (which was a real shocker). So even before his knee injury, he was a disappointment. And the disappointment is compounded by the fact that your division rivals took a player 2 picks later at the same position who turned out to be an All Pro in his 2nd season.
I'm an optimist myself, but you need to be realistic. He didn't just tear an ACL. He had microfracture surgery. The same surgery that made Steve Smith go from a 107 reception season, to trying to earn a roster spot with the Rams. It's the reason the Eagles not only signed Babin, but also drafted Curry in this last draft.
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JayAp07
Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 1593
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | killdawabbit wrote: | It's pretty standard to give a guy 3 seasons of play to develop. Graham has had 1 in which he played as well as any DE from his draft class. If he wants to use it as motivation or whatever fine, but calling him a bust right now is beyond premature. It's ignorance. Calling him a bust because he isn't immediately starting over a guy who got 18 sacks last year is also ignorance. It doesn't mean he won't end up a bust, but it absolutely does mean that it's way too soon to tell.
People have some unrealistic expectations. At least half of first round picks don't pan out at all. Of the rest, the vast majority end up as good starters at best. Most of those don't contribute much at all in their first year of play.
There are going to be some who continue to cry "bust" if he isn't the "starter" by the end of the year. Insane. Washburn uses a heavy line rotation, the word "starter" doesn't mean nearly as much as it might on another team. He is not getting a "pass" from people who say it's too soon to tell. He is getting a more realistic expectation from those people. So long as Graham is a positive contributor in the rotation this season, there is no possible way you can realistically call him a "bust". It just remains to be seen if that happens.
Seriously, I expect better from you guys. This is starting to look like TATE on the Eagles board. Let's not go that route, guys. We're better than that here. |
When you trade two 3rd round picks to move up and draft a player 13th overall in the draft, the expectations are pretty high. The expectation was that since Graham was a low ceiling but NFL ready player, he would come in and contribute immediately. He was supposed to be a DROY candidate lining up opposite of Cole. Instead he got benched because he got pushed around against the run (which was a real shocker). So even before his knee injury, he was a disappointment. And the disappointment is compounded by the fact that your division rivals took a player 2 picks later at the same position who turned out to be an All Pro in his 2nd season.
I'm an optimist myself, but you need to be realistic. He didn't just tear an ACL. He had microfracture surgery. The same surgery that made Steve Smith go from a 107 reception season, to trying to earn a roster spot with the Rams. It's the reason the Eagles not only signed Babin, but also drafted Curry in this last draft. |
I don't like the "he didn't produce as a rookie so he's a bust" argument. Fact of the matter is, not many 4-3 DE's actually do make an impact during their rookie seasons. Like a lot of young players, they take a year or two to develop into solid NFL players. Justin Tuck only had 1 sack his entire first 2 seasons in the league and he played in 4 more games than Graham. Mario Williams only had 4.5 sacks his rookie year and he was the #1 pick. Chris Long had 4 and 5 sacks in his first 2 seasons and he played in all 32 games. All of these guys have turned into excellent DE's. The list goes on and on.
The only argument that I find legitimate and not premature is the one I bolded in your statement. That's the main reason that he might never record another sack in the league.
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Agree with Jay on why BG might end up being a bust. And we didn't draft Curry because of Graham's surgery, we drafted Curry because the Eagles had a late 1st round grade on him. He was the BPA for them.
Of the last 5 years, the rookie who have contributed the most for a SB winning or losing team, was Austin Collie with 5 or 600 some yards.
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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Gmen wrote: | | And the disappointment is compounded by the fact that your division rivals took a player 2 picks later at the same position who turned out to be an All Pro in his 2nd season. |
And how, exactly, does this add anything to your argument?
It's clearly aimed at inciting someone. You're welcome to post here, you bring perspective, but come on man.
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BBIB
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I've NEVER seen a player assess their career like that while they were still playing. This is an encouraging sign that Brandon Graham will do everything in his power to maximize the potential that he has left.
Even if he's a rotational half a dozen sack guy a year for you guys, in that rotation it still could work out with Curry, Cox, Babin, and Cole in the mix |
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jonu62882
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| BBIB wrote: | I've NEVER seen a player assess their career like that while they were still playing. This is an encouraging sign that Brandon Graham will do everything in his power to maximize the potential that he has left.
Even if he's a rotational half a dozen sack guy a year for you guys, in that rotation it still could work out with Curry, Cox, Babin, and Cole in the mix |
...and Jenkins. |
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | BBIB wrote: | I've NEVER seen a player assess their career like that while they were still playing. This is an encouraging sign that Brandon Graham will do everything in his power to maximize the potential that he has left.
Even if he's a rotational half a dozen sack guy a year for you guys, in that rotation it still could work out with Curry, Cox, Babin, and Cole in the mix |
...and Jenkins. |
He was just referring to the DE's.
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"Of gold and silver and gemstones, it had none; bronze and iron were the metals of winter"
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bzane
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Remixxxxxxx wrote: | | Broadway Joe wrote: | | It would be nice to get it right for once and by this I mean a dominant 1st rounder. |
We had a pretty good first rounder - and we traded him, for nothing and he went on to have a fantastic year last year.
This team is inept at identifying defensive talent when it comes to keeping players on the roster, and also defensive prospects in the draft. |
I guess maybe that's been the recent history, but the Eagles had what looks like an excellent top-half of the draft for defensive players this year- Cox, Mychal Kendricks, and Curry. I'm primarily a Giants' fan and I was hoping they would take Kendricks in the second- an undersized guy who's a great player and a driven on-the-field leader. I'm envious that Philadelphia got him. Maybe your front office is turning things around. |
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jonu62882
Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| RainbowCarebear wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | BBIB wrote: | I've NEVER seen a player assess their career like that while they were still playing. This is an encouraging sign that Brandon Graham will do everything in his power to maximize the potential that he has left.
Even if he's a rotational half a dozen sack guy a year for you guys, in that rotation it still could work out with Curry, Cox, Babin, and Cole in the mix |
...and Jenkins. |
He was just referring to the DE's. |
Well, aren't you special?!
Jenkins needs more love. |
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 22685
Location: Avenging his brother by slaying three of Prince Rhaegar's bannermen and later Rodrik Greyjoy
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jonu62882 wrote: | | RainbowCarebear wrote: | | jonu62882 wrote: | | BBIB wrote: | I've NEVER seen a player assess their career like that while they were still playing. This is an encouraging sign that Brandon Graham will do everything in his power to maximize the potential that he has left.
Even if he's a rotational half a dozen sack guy a year for you guys, in that rotation it still could work out with Curry, Cox, Babin, and Cole in the mix |
...and Jenkins. |
He was just referring to the DE's. |
Well, aren't you special?!
Jenkins needs more love. |
Define special
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"Of gold and silver and gemstones, it had none; bronze and iron were the metals of winter"
"He is part of you, Robb. To fear him is to fear you."
"These are northmen, Uncle. The north remembers." |
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RandyMossIsBoss
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Brandon Graham was definitely being a little hard on himself and I don't view that as a lack of confidence, but a message to Philly saying he knows he hasn't reached expectations and will be motivated to prove his worth in the 1st round. I'd say you can't label someone a bust until after their 3rd year, unless they're out of the league, and we haven't seen how good Graham can be. Doesn't look like he'll ever be fully worth a 1st round pick but I believe he'll prove valuable in our defensive line rotation and should see around 25-35% of defensive line snaps if he stays healthy. |
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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: #championchip 2012 HoF
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/eagles-talk/Eagles-OTA-Notes-Dixon-healthy-Monday-re?blockID=719182&feedID=692
| Quote: | Brandon Graham already called himself a bust during OTAs (see story) but Trent Cole is expecting big things out of Graham this season.
“He’s a great player,” Cole said. “He’s gonna be a great player. He’s one of those guys, he reminds me of me and Jason [Babin]. He gets after it. He gets after it every down. I’m expecting a lot out of him. He’s going to be a big key to our success.
“He’s a very motivated guy. He wants to get after it and win.” |
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| stevec0008 wrote: | | I read all the time, and laugh, a lot. Mostly at oland. |
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Nabbs4u
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:46 am Post subject: |
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Can't believe there's 9 pgs on a motivation tool he's using and obvious dig directed towards his critics.
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Remixxxxxxx
Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Nabbs4u wrote: | | Can't believe there's 9 pgs on a motivation tool he's using and obvious dig directed towards his critics. |
It's not like there's much else to talk about right now.
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