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kylecumberland
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| onejayhawk wrote: | I am glad Stanzi is showing something. My guy is Quinn, but in any event some heat under Cassel's feet is not a bad thing.
Some points:
Comparing Stanzi to Rodgers is unfair. Rodgers was a 1st round pick. Stanzi was projected as a 3rd/4th rounder. He has limited mobility and an average arm at best. Had he not had a huge senior year at Iowa, he would likely not have been drafted.
Comparing Rodgers to Quinn is much more appropriate, since both were taken in the same part of round 1. For that matter, comparing Quinn to Alex Smith, in spite of the differences in draft position. Smith and Rodgers were viewed as very close when they came out.
With our running game, ball handling and play fakes are at a premium. These are things Cassel excels at.
J |
The comparison to Rodgers was not a comparison of prospects, but rather comparing the way the teams that drafted them chose to develop them the old school way, by letting them sit on the bench for several years, to get adjusted to the NFL game. There are countless examples of guys who got thrown into the fire too soon, and had their confidence ratteled, David Carr and Alex Smith come to mind. Smith is still trying to revive his career. Now I think Rodgers would have been good either way, but I don't think he would be as good as he is right now, if they didn't develop him like they did. I think that is what we are doing with Stanzi. |
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Chiefer
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 9899
Location: You ever been conscious in a coma?
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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He has limited mobility in that hes not overly athletic, nor is he a scrambler. But he shows a good pocket presence and is definitely not a statue.
Also, his arm is comparable to Bradys in my opinion. Cassels arm at best is average and Stanzi has a better arm then him.
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| Iggles wrote: | | Come on, man, these are the kinds of statements that make Chiefer look 100% right |
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brawl.kc
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 2042
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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A great read is to go back and look at Stanzi's Iowa Bio. All he does is rock it.
You only want to look here for a quick laugh.
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UPlay2Win
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 3037
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Stanzi seems to have squarely taken over the #2 QB spot through OTAs, and I expect that to continue through Training Camp. Quinn has struggled from the limited reports in, particularly the Out route which Stanzi is seemingly throwing well. Forgive me if im wrong, but I believe the out route is one of the hardest to throw? |
That's what this is all about. Putting Stanzi next to Cassel is only a recipe for disappointment. Stanzi (apparently) needed to make a huge improvement in order to become a no.2 QB this year. This sounds like he might have done it. Great news.
And it depends what you mean by 'hard'. The out route is a fairly simple read. After making it, you come off your back foot and throw the ball as hard as you can at an empty space on the sideline. It is, however, the easiest way to view a player's arm strength (or lack thereof). Good to know that Stanzi's got the goods. That was a questionmark for him, wasn't it?
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onejayhawk
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 5056
Location: Waco, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| kylecumberland wrote: | | onejayhawk wrote: | I am glad Stanzi is showing something. My guy is Quinn, but in any event some heat under Cassel's feet is not a bad thing.
Some points:
Comparing Stanzi to Rodgers is unfair. Rodgers was a 1st round pick. Stanzi was projected as a 3rd/4th rounder. He has limited mobility and an average arm at best. Had he not had a huge senior year at Iowa, he would likely not have been drafted.
Comparing Rodgers to Quinn is much more appropriate, since both were taken in the same part of round 1. For that matter, comparing Quinn to Alex Smith, in spite of the differences in draft position. Smith and Rodgers were viewed as very close when they came out.
With our running game, ball handling and play fakes are at a premium. These are things Cassel excels at.
J |
The comparison to Rodgers was not a comparison of prospects, but rather comparing the way the teams that drafted them chose to develop them the old school way, by letting them sit on the bench for several years, to get adjusted to the NFL game. There are countless examples of guys who got thrown into the fire too soon, and had their confidence ratteled, David Carr and Alex Smith come to mind. Smith is still trying to revive his career. Now I think Rodgers would have been good either way, but I don't think he would be as good as he is right now, if they didn't develop him like they did. I think that is what we are doing with Stanzi. |
A better comparison would be Dallas' handling of Tony Romo. TR was an UDFA, who went on PS while they worked on his mechanics.
I mentioned Alex Smith with this thought in mind. He and Rodgers were very close in most minds. Neither was worth a top 10 pick, but the 49ers felt they needed a QB. He they gone with rodgers, Smith may have landed in GB, with similar results to Rodgers.
In any event, TC should be interesting.
J
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: St. Cloud, MN
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm excited like everyone else that Stanzi is impressing. The thing I'm realizing though, is he is making his case to clearly be the number 2. Not threatening to over-take Cassel. We haven't hear anything about Cassel faltering, so for right now I'm not getting my hopes up of Stanzi starting any time soon. It is nice to hear that Stanzi is making strides though, because it was clear that nobody thought he was ready last year.
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ryknowssd
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
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Location: Awesomeville
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| DT58_lives_on wrote: | | The thing I'm realizing though, is he is making his case to clearly be the number 2. Not threatening to over-take Cassel. |
QUIT PISSIN' ON MAH RAYNEBOW!!!!! 
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The way I see it, is Matt Cassel is plain and simple a practice quarterback. So hearing nothing negative about him from OTA reports doesn't surprise me one bit. OTAs are probably right up his alley. IMO, where Cassel fails is when the bullets are flying during live action. He breaks down under pressure and all of that OTA shininess goes right out of the window. That is where Stanzi has a shot at beating him. Stanzi needs to continue to do what is expected of him in the OTAs and show enough improvement day-in and day-out. His ability to rally the offense when the stakes are high is what very well could cause Stanzi to rise above Cassel. |
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | QUIT PISSIN' ON MAH RAYNEBOW!!!!!
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Laughing so hard at work that people are looking at me. Thanks RYK.
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bigschmadt00
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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Location: Seeing what condition my condition is in
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| UPlay2Win wrote: | | Quote: | | Stanzi seems to have squarely taken over the #2 QB spot through OTAs, and I expect that to continue through Training Camp. Quinn has struggled from the limited reports in, particularly the Out route which Stanzi is seemingly throwing well. Forgive me if im wrong, but I believe the out route is one of the hardest to throw? |
That's what this is all about. Putting Stanzi next to Cassel is only a recipe for disappointment. Stanzi (apparently) needed to make a huge improvement in order to become a no.2 QB this year. This sounds like he might have done it. Great news.
And it depends what you mean by 'hard'. The out route is a fairly simple read. After making it, you come off your back foot and throw the ball as hard as you can at an empty space on the sideline. It is, however, the easiest way to view a player's arm strength (or lack thereof). Good to know that Stanzi's got the goods. That was a questionmark for him, wasn't it? |
The thing with the mid-deep out route (say 15yds and greater) that I hear guys like Dilfer point to to call it the hardest throw, is that you have to make a deep throw, to a receiver moving across your body meaning you have to lead him (as opposed to a deep fly route where you can just let the WR adjust his speed to the ball), and have to have the proper amount of arc to the ball so it isn't in much danger of being intercepted. It takes into account pretty much every aspect of throwing a ball aside from touch passes. Basically, if you can throw that well, you can now "make all the throws" as they say.
And let me take this time to talk about touch passes, as they are often perceived by many folks as easy to make, and as such overlooked. IMO, these are just as hard as any deep throw, and especially in our offense, if not even more critical. If we are going to make use of all of our yards after catch guys we've got on this roster like DMX, Wylie, Moeaki, Boss, Charles, and Hillis, we need a QB that excels at the touch pass. Cassel is possibly worse at this then he is throwing deep.
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UPlay2Win
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | The thing with the mid-deep out route (say 15yds and greater) that I hear guys like Dilfer point to to call it the hardest throw, is that you have to make a deep throw, to a receiver moving across your body meaning you have to lead him (as opposed to a deep fly route where you can just let the WR adjust his speed to the ball), and have to have the proper amount of arc to the ball so it isn't in much danger of being intercepted. It takes into account pretty much every aspect of throwing a ball aside from touch passes. Basically, if you can throw that well, you can now "make all the throws" as they say.
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This is all true, and you're right, a 15 yard out is a lot harder throw than a 5 yard out. But it is still a "what you see is what you get" throw. There isn't very much variable. You sync in practice and it should, in part, become muscle memory. If your receiver is getting manhandled in his route or there is a defender in a position that makes the window small, then you probably shouldn't be throwing it.
To throw a 15 yard out properly, you need an arm that the average Joe doesn't have. If you don't have that arm, you can instead lob the ball in a basket, but that makes all other factors become that much more important: timing, accuracy, predicting defenders' reactions, etc. Not all offenses incorporate this route regularly because not all QBs should be throwing it. If I were coaching Cassel and the Chiefs, I would throw it out of the playbook.
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