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TexansFan23
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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Location: PA
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40085
Location: East of Sixburgh
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 Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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An option? Sure.
Answer? Too soon to say.
And both Maze and Rainey could make the roster if they show enough. With Ward's retirement we have an extra WR spot open, and it will likely come down to Maze and Clemons for the number 5. Rainey IMO will have a tougher time...unless Dwyer doesnt step up and Batch isnt as good as advertised.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 979
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | An option? Sure.
Answer? Too soon to say.
And both Maze and Rainey could make the roster if they show enough. With Ward's retirement we have an extra WR spot open, and it will likely come down to Maze and Clemons for the number 5. Rainey IMO will have a tougher time...unless Dwyer doesnt step up and Batch isnt as good as advertised. |
I feel the other way. As far as making the roster id say Batch, Clemons, and Maze all have a tougher time than Rainey.
Taken in the 5th isnt a huge deal, but they obviously saw something in Rainey that they think they can use. And his draft status (feels weird saying that about a 5th rounder) is better than the others, and that does matter some.
Id feel Rainey would have to basically show absolutely nothing and really struggle to not make the roster. |
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Gatoradus
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 1991
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| random but did anyone knew that he played some at cornerback for Alabama before? |
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Gatoradus
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 1991
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Also 43M, I disagree. At a glimpse, Maze and Rainey look like they are similar, but not really. Positional and strength at the positions are different. You could argue that Rainey is a faster and less-polished version of Reggie Bush but given Mendenhall's injury and lack of speed/explosion at running back position, Rainey may have a head running compared to Maze.
Maze, while on paper seem like he is a productive wide receiver, to me he's a UFL WR or arena football player at best. His route-running is terrible, lack of size and strength, and he can't block. He doesn't even jump that high, not much to take from him but he'd have much more luck with other team that doesn't have much of WR depth like Bengals. We are set, looking for WRs with some potentials, that's what I think at least. |
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MightyJoeYoung
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2650
Location: Wakefield, England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| Gatoradus wrote: | | Mendenhall's injury and lack of speed/explosion at running back position, Rainey may have a head running compared to Maze. |
What have you been smoking?
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rollins
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| MightyJoeYoung wrote: | | Gatoradus wrote: | | Mendenhall's injury and lack of speed/explosion at running back position, Rainey may have a head running compared to Maze. |
What have you been smoking? |
I would actually agree with that. Mendenhall is out for a while. So that leaves Redman, Clay, Dwyer and Batch. Aside from Batch the others definitely lack and speed and explosion. As far as batch goes he's coming off of a major injury and we really have never seen him do anything during competition yet.
As far as the original topic is concerned I would say Rainey without a doubt has an advantage and good shot when making the roster. He gives us a versatility no one else does. He can play RB, returner, and some receiver. Based on where they were coming out of college Rainey was a much higher touted prospect than Batch. If it were not for off the field issues Rainey could have easily been a 3rd round pick. Id say there is a 90% chance of him making the roster. Also if he gets to the Practice Squad we can kiss him goodbye. I don't know if the same could be said for Batch. But I think they both end up making the roster and Clay gets cut. |
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MightyJoeYoung
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 2650
Location: Wakefield, England
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| rollins wrote: | | MightyJoeYoung wrote: | | Gatoradus wrote: | | Mendenhall's injury and lack of speed/explosion at running back position, Rainey may have a head running compared to Maze. |
What have you been smoking? |
I would actually agree with that. Mendenhall is out for a while. So that leaves Redman, Clay, Dwyer and Batch. Aside from Batch the others definitely lack and speed and explosion. As far as batch goes he's coming off of a major injury and we really have never seen him do anything during competition yet.
As far as the original topic is concerned I would say Rainey without a doubt has an advantage and good shot when making the roster. He gives us a versatility no one else does. He can play RB, returner, and some receiver. Based on where they were coming out of college Rainey was a much higher touted prospect than Batch. If it were not for off the field issues Rainey could have easily been a 3rd round pick. Id say there is a 90% chance of him making the roster. Also if he gets to the Practice Squad we can kiss him goodbye. I don't know if the same could be said for Batch. But I think they both end up making the roster and Clay gets cut. |
Oh nevermind, I thought he was referring to Mendenhall not having speed/explosion. Just mis-read it.
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40085
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Dcash4 wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | An option? Sure.
Answer? Too soon to say.
And both Maze and Rainey could make the roster if they show enough. With Ward's retirement we have an extra WR spot open, and it will likely come down to Maze and Clemons for the number 5. Rainey IMO will have a tougher time...unless Dwyer doesnt step up and Batch isnt as good as advertised. |
I feel the other way. As far as making the roster id say Batch, Clemons, and Maze all have a tougher time than Rainey.
Taken in the 5th isnt a huge deal, but they obviously saw something in Rainey that they think they can use. And his draft status (feels weird saying that about a 5th rounder) is better than the others, and that does matter some.
Id feel Rainey would have to basically show absolutely nothing and really struggle to not make the roster. |
How will Batch have a tougher time than Rainey? They loved Batch last year and Ive heard nothing but good reports this year. Only OTAs right now, but still. Rainey hasnt shown a thing yet. Not saying Rainey cant make it over him, but at this point, Batch has shown more. He absolutely has the leg up AT THIS POINT.
Umm...every player thats drafted is a player the team THINKS they can use. That doesnt mean it will work out that way. They took Thaddeus Gibson in the middle of the 4th round and cut him really quick. They saw something in him too, but they obviously didnt like what they saw first hand.
And as far as Maze and Clemons, they play a different position. They are going to keep more than 4 WRs, so basically one of them is guaranteed a spot. RB we have Redman guaranteed a spot, and after that we have Dwyer, Batch and Rainey. They may very well keep all 4 on the roster, but when Mendy gets healthy, I doubt they keep 5, and if I had to guess RIGHT now, Id say Rainey will be the odd one out. Hard to say at this point.
And in the end...I think Maze has more to offer. He may not be quite the return guy, but he has a much better chance of having success as an NFL WR than Rainey has of being an NFL RB. Unless Rainey proves to be an insane kick returner in camp, I think Maze would actually be retained over him if he proved to be more complete overall.
Obviously, its all speculation though.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40085
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Gatoradus wrote: | Also 43M, I disagree. At a glimpse, Maze and Rainey look like they are similar, but not really. Positional and strength at the positions are different. You could argue that Rainey is a faster and less-polished version of Reggie Bush but given Mendenhall's injury and lack of speed/explosion at running back position, Rainey may have a head running compared to Maze.
Maze, while on paper seem like he is a productive wide receiver, to me he's a UFL WR or arena football player at best. His route-running is terrible, lack of size and strength, and he can't block. He doesn't even jump that high, not much to take from him but he'd have much more luck with other team that doesn't have much of WR depth like Bengals. We are set, looking for WRs with some potentials, that's what I think at least. |
If you disagree, cool, but a few things...
1) I never claimed Maze and Rainey were similar at all.
2) So you think Maze seems like a UFL WR...okay, but please dont tell me you think Rainey is any better suited to be an NFL RB. I actually like Rainey, but he doesnt have any better of a chance at being a RB than Maze does at being a WR.
3) Rainey doesnt compare to Reggie Bush . Maybe a few things in common, but not much.
4) Positional strenghth may be better at WR, but they are guaranteed to keep more the 4 WRs. Wallace, Brown, Sanders and Cotch are guarnateed. Number 5 will likely come down to Clemons or Maze. One will be on the team. And if Wallace holds out, both will likely make it.
Rainey will likely make the team at first, but, after Mendy comes back could easily be out. There is more depth at WR, but RB has less spots. As I said, Redman is the only one guaranteed a spot. Dwyer could be out of they get upset with him, but he is possibly the most talented RB outside of Mendy we have. Batch has yet to show anything when it matters, but all early reports look good.
Bottom line...I dont know who will make the team. Its too early to say anything definitive, but a) I think Maze has more of a chance to make an impact at WR than Rainey does at RB, and b) Rainey has four other guys to compete with for 3...MAYBE 4 spots. Maze has 5 other WRs to compete with for at least 5 spots.
It will come down to STs ability probably. Rainey IMO has the leg up there, but being a good KR in college doesnt mean youll be good in the NFL. Willie Reid anyone?
_________________
| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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at23steelers
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| I have heard Rainey has been one of the most impressive in OTA's so far! Has Batch really shown that much more up to this point? We kept Battle as our 6th WR who only played special teams the whole year. Is it really that far-fetched to keep Rainey for similar duties as 6th WR who even adds more value to our offense than Battle. I think Rainey would be more involved on offense where we can use him at different positions. Not to mention which player would you be more scared that another team would sign the player? |
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 6363
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Its hard to imagine Rainey not making the roster, pre-season will tell but no way he goes practice squad and expect to keep him.
Mendy -PUP
Redman
Batch
Rainey
Dwyer
Who else?
Dwyer is expendable once Mendy comes back. Clay isnt even a factor unless he morfs into Montee Ball.
I like Maze but defintely feel the path is easier for Rainey.
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| Dcash4 wrote: |
...you have a forum resume? |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40085
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | Its hard to imagine Rainey not making the roster, pre-season will tell but no way he goes practice squad and expect to keep him.
Mendy -PUP
Redman
Batch
Rainey
Dwyer
Who else?
Dwyer is expendable once Mendy comes back. Clay isnt even a factor unless he morfs into Montee Ball.
I like Maze but defintely feel the path is easier for Rainey. |
Just a question....why do you feel Dwyer is more expendable than Rainey?
Like I said...if Dwyer truly has work ethic issues, then he will definitely be on his way out, but in terms of talent, IMO anyway....Dwyer has more than everyone expect probably Mendenhall.
I think people focus on Rainey's agility and speed. Dont get me wrong, its obviously nice, but that alone isnt going to win him the spot. He has below average vision, a small frame, and played in a gimmick offense that freed him up to have alot of open field.
I honestly think Rainey would have more success as a slot WR than a RB in the NFL, and even that I have doubts about.
Im not saying Maze is better at all. Just that I think in terms of competing outside of special teams, he has more of a chance.
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| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 979
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | Dcash4 wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | An option? Sure.
Answer? Too soon to say.
And both Maze and Rainey could make the roster if they show enough. With Ward's retirement we have an extra WR spot open, and it will likely come down to Maze and Clemons for the number 5. Rainey IMO will have a tougher time...unless Dwyer doesnt step up and Batch isnt as good as advertised. |
I feel the other way. As far as making the roster id say Batch, Clemons, and Maze all have a tougher time than Rainey.
Taken in the 5th isnt a huge deal, but they obviously saw something in Rainey that they think they can use. And his draft status (feels weird saying that about a 5th rounder) is better than the others, and that does matter some.
Id feel Rainey would have to basically show absolutely nothing and really struggle to not make the roster. |
How will Batch have a tougher time than Rainey? They loved Batch last year and Ive heard nothing but good reports this year. Only OTAs right now, but still. Rainey hasnt shown a thing yet. Not saying Rainey cant make it over him, but at this point, Batch has shown more. He absolutely has the leg up AT THIS POINT.
Umm...every player thats drafted is a player the team THINKS they can use. That doesnt mean it will work out that way. They took Thaddeus Gibson in the middle of the 4th round and cut him really quick. They saw something in him too, but they obviously didnt like what they saw first hand.
And as far as Maze and Clemons, they play a different position. They are going to keep more than 4 WRs, so basically one of them is guaranteed a spot. RB we have Redman guaranteed a spot, and after that we have Dwyer, Batch and Rainey. They may very well keep all 4 on the roster, but when Mendy gets healthy, I doubt they keep 5, and if I had to guess RIGHT now, Id say Rainey will be the odd one out. Hard to say at this point.
And in the end...I think Maze has more to offer. He may not be quite the return guy, but he has a much better chance of having success as an NFL WR than Rainey has of being an NFL RB. Unless Rainey proves to be an insane kick returner in camp, I think Maze would actually be retained over him if he proved to be more complete overall.
Obviously, its all speculation though. |
Its just my opinion. I think that Rainey has the leg up on Batch. Batch was recovered and already on this roster when they took Rainey. They knew they had Batch but still took someone in the 5th round that MAY be used in very similar ways, and can also do more things such as return, and line up in the slot. He has also done a ton of other special teams play in college (his punt blocking isnt something i believe transfers over into the nfl, but it speaks to his roster flexibility, and something the steelers love now). And reports on Rainey so far have been good as well. They really like his speed and what he can do when he sticks his foot in the ground from what i have read. Its still early though. Ill wait till we actually see them in game time situations before we actually start comparing their games.
I agree that being drafted doesnt necessarily mean that you make the roster, but since we are talking about the right now (as in OTA and prior to games and camp), yes it does. If we go through camp and actually get to see all of them play, then it changes, but as of now-- Rainey has the leg up. He will have more chances to make it because of where they took him compared to the others. Gibson is an example, but not a great one in this case. He played a position that we are well off in, and he made it into the regular season on the roster. He HAD a leg up on others, until things changed (injuries) and having seen him long enough, they felt good enough to let him go.
Its just the way i look at things, but i really do believe Rainey has a leg up RIGHT NOW over those guys because of where he was drafted, and his roster flexibility. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 40085
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Dcash4 wrote: | | Its just my opinion. I think that Rainey has the leg up on Batch. Batch was recovered and already on this roster when they took Rainey. They knew they had Batch but still took someone in the 5th round that MAY be used in very similar ways, and can also do more things such as return, and line up in the slot. |
Colbert even said in the later rounds, its more about value regardless of position. So that says absolutely nothing in terms of what they think of Batch.
And Batch has still shown more. They loved him last preseason and there have been alot of reports about him being great thus far too.
Admittedly, I havent heard much about Rainey, but not because he isnt doing well. Just havent kept up. I did read some stuff on Batch that someone posted here.
Either way, OTAs dont make a huge difference either way.
| Dcash4 wrote: | | He has also done a ton of other special teams play in college (his punt blocking isnt something i believe transfers over into the nfl, but it speaks to his roster flexibility, and something the steelers love now). |
Well, as I said...Willie Reid was viewed the same way. Not saying Rainey will bust like that, but that means little until they show it actually DID transfer to the NFL.
| Dcash4 wrote: | And reports on Rainey so far have been good as well. They really like his speed and what he can do when he sticks his foot in the ground from what i have read. Its still early though. Ill wait till we actually see them in game time situations before we actually start comparing their games.
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The only thing Im saying is that Batch received good reviews last year and reports are good this year as well. Obviously, he isnt guaranteed a roster spot, but last year they were impressed with his blocking, catching out of the backfield and even running up the middle. I think Rainey would be good catching out of the backfield, but blocking and running up the midde? Not so much. Batch sounded like a perfect 3rd down back, but again, its too soon to say anything for sure. Rainey IMO is limited to what he can do in an NFL offense (unless they line him at slot, which is speculation). And while Rainey has more speciial teams ability, they also seemed to like Batch's as well...which is why I said I think Rainey would have to show alot at KR to be viewed as more valuable than Batch.
| Dcash4 wrote: | | I agree that being drafted doesnt necessarily mean that you make the roster, but since we are talking about the right now (as in OTA and prior to games and camp), yes it does. |
It makes no difference at all if it is OTAs. None of them have shown anything yet, and a 5th rounder absolutely is not guarnateed a roster spot. The Steelers have cut 3rd and 4th rounders in the past, so a 5th rounder doesnt have any real advantages.
The only difference between 5th-7th rounders and UDFAs is usually lack of hype or red flags of some type.
Im not saying Rainey isnt good or that Maze is better, but at this point, both have the same chance of making the team until one of them proves something.
| Dcash4 wrote: | | If we go through camp and actually get to see all of them play, then it changes, but as of now-- Rainey has the leg up. He will have more chances to make it because of where they took him compared to the others. Gibson is an example, but not a great one in this case. He played a position that we are well off in, and he made it into the regular season on the roster. He HAD a leg up on others, until things changed (injuries) and having seen him long enough, they felt good enough to let him go. |
Rainey MAY have the leg up on Maze, but not on Batch.
And you are talking like being taken in the 5th is a big deal. Its not...at all. Batch was taken last year in the 7th...do you really think they are saying "well, we took Rainey in the 5th and Batch in the 7th, so that clearly means Rainey is better"?
This isnt like being drafted in the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd (usually). He was a late 5th round pick. That doesnt give him any advantage at all. Over Maze? POSSIBLY, but again...none have proven anything, and as late round UDFAs, you have to prove your worth all the same.
| Dcash4 wrote: | | Its just the way i look at things, but i really do believe Rainey has a leg up RIGHT NOW over those guys because of where he was drafted, and his roster flexibility. |
If you believe he has the leg up, fine...I just dont see the logic.
He is just as unproven, and being taken in the late 5th means very little terms of making the roster, much less having a leg up on anyone. Like I said earlier...its not like he is in DeCastro, Adams or Spence's position to where they invested fairly high picks in them. At the bottom of the 5th, he was just someone they thought could help and had the most value at that point, but I doubt they view him as much better...it at all...over the others just because of that.
In the end, Rainey could end up being better than all of them and making the roster, and I am fine with that. I just think you are seriously overvaluing his chances of making the team based on where he was drafted, which means very little considering he was a late 5th round choice.
_________________
| cluelessororke wrote: | | I am going to laugh in your face when they don't even sniff WR until day three of the draft |
Still waiting for your laugh.... |
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