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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 30533
Location: 'Merica
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 Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| RockyDennis wrote: | It's not better, and that wasn't my point. My point was Lawson wasn't playing with the greatest supporting cast either. And you can't lay out the line ups like you did seeing as Afflalo, Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov tons of games.
Curry has a lot of pressure on him this year. With an extension coming soon he needs to show he can stay healthy and start producing wins and not fantasy numbers to show that he is worth $10M a season. Lawson IMO has already proven that and I would give him $10M tomorrow. That has to be a bigger factor in your rankings. |
I'm not saying he wasn't playing with the greatest supporting cast, but to act like he played with a bunch of nobodies isn't fair either. How does similar numbers with a pretty good supporting cast be more impressive then similar numbers with a pretty poor supporting class? This isn't a case where Curry is putting up good numbers because he's on a bad team.
And yes Curry does have a lot of pressure on him, but I don't see why people are so quick to jump on Curry because of a season where never fully healed from an ankle injury. Prior to this year, he played in 154 out of the 164 games. People like to throw out the injury prone label way too much, and it's happening with Curry.
I wouldn't give Ty Lawson much more than the MLE, let alone throw ten million at him. If you think he's in the Rajon Rondo, then by all means throw ten million at him. His value is somewhere between 6-8 million. Talent wise he's not that dissimilar to Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley.
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| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
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Raves
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 16852
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | RockyDennis wrote: | It's not better, and that wasn't my point. My point was Lawson wasn't playing with the greatest supporting cast either. And you can't lay out the line ups like you did seeing as Afflalo, Gallo, Chandler, and Mozgov tons of games.
Curry has a lot of pressure on him this year. With an extension coming soon he needs to show he can stay healthy and start producing wins and not fantasy numbers to show that he is worth $10M a season. Lawson IMO has already proven that and I would give him $10M tomorrow. That has to be a bigger factor in your rankings. |
I'm not saying he wasn't playing with the greatest supporting cast, but to act like he played with a bunch of nobodies isn't fair either. How does similar numbers with a pretty good supporting cast be more impressive then similar numbers with a pretty poor supporting class? This isn't a case where Curry is putting up good numbers because he's on a bad team.
And yes Curry does have a lot of pressure on him, but I don't see why people are so quick to jump on Curry because of a season where never fully healed from an ankle injury. Prior to this year, he played in 154 out of the 164 games. People like to throw out the injury prone label way too much, and it's happening with Curry.
I wouldn't give Ty Lawson much more than the MLE, let alone throw ten million at him. If you think he's in the Rajon Rondo, then by all means throw ten million at him. His value is somewhere between 6-8 million. Talent wise he's not that dissimilar to Kyle Lowry or Mike Conley. |
I guess I'm one of the few that's a little higher on Conley than most...
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Jimmy Graham - 99 catches, 1310 yards, 11 TD |
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keysersoze3421
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 22907
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Re: comparing Lawson's season to Curry's 2010-2011 season:
Lawson had a slightly lower eFG%, but he was a better slasher, passer, about equal defensively, and virtually identical rebounder. Curry is a better shooter than Lawson, but Lawson makes up for it by getting to the basket more often. If anything, they should be neck and neck in the rankings, not one this many spots behind the other. In fact, with the lingering ankle problems and Lawson showing no signs of injury, I wouldn't hesitate to move him above Curry both in the interim and the near future. They're the same age, but any time you repeatedly injure your ankle (seven times for Curry), even with surgery, it still remains a liability. Spraining and playing basketball on it like Curry did creates some perpetual damage. Now, do I think it will end his career? No, but ankle injuries can be as severe as Roy-like knee injuries. It remains to be seen whether Curry can effectively bounce back.
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 30533
Location: 'Merica
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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6.) Kyrie Irving [PG; Cleveland Cavaliers]
2011-12 Stats: 51 GP (51 GS), 18.5 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 5.4 APG, 1.1 SPG, 3.1 TOPG, .469/.399/.872, .517 eFG%, .566 TS%, .125 WS/48, 21.4 PER
Contract: Three Years, $18,053,730
Kyrie Irving as by far the best rookie this past season, and was a real joy to watch on an otherwise lackluster Cavaliers team. He showed flashes of brilliance that would lead you believe that he could be a franchise player the Cavaliers fans can pin their hopes on after LeBron left. That being said, he also displayed quite a few rookie mistakes and must continue to develop his point guard skills if he wants to become a star in the NBA. He's got a really bright future in the NBA, and it wouldn't surprise me if he had an even better season next year. Had it not been for a back injury that derailed him through the middle portion of the season, he could have had a much better statistical season than he already did. He'll need to improve his passing more and cut down on his turnovers if he wants to help the Cavaliers get into the playoffs. He's going to be blossoming into a star before our eyes the next few years.
5.) Russell Westbrook [PG; Oklahoma City Thunder]
2011-12 Stats: 66 GP (66 GS), 23.6 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 5.5 APG, 1.7 SPG, 3.6 TOPG, .457/.316/.823, .481 eFG%, .538 TS%, .163 WS/48, 22.9 PER
Contract: 5 Years, $74,372,616
Based on pure talent alone, Russell Westbrook probably deserves to top this list but unfortunately he doesn't play up to his physical talents. That's not to say he isn't a very impressive player in his own right, but he's still got a lot more potential to tap into. He's blessed with amazing athleticism and when combined with his size makes him a very difficult player to guard. He can get into the paint almost at will, and open up shots for his teammates or he can pull up for a midrange jumper and drain it from there. He doesn't always make the greatest decisions and can tend to get horse blinders put on and become a volume shooter. There might be a bit of power struggle for him with Kevin Durant as to who the go-to guy on the Thunder is, but it's starting to correct itself. Defensively, he's got the physical tools to be an elite defender but he doesn't commit himself to the defensive end all the time but when he does he's a tough defender.
4.) Rajon Rondo [PG; Boston Celtics]
2011-12 Stats: 53 GP (53 GS), 11.9 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 11.7 APG, 1.8 SPG, 3.6 TOPG, .448/.238/.597, .456 eFG%, .483 TS%, .121 WS/48, 17.5 PER
Contract: 3 Years, $35,863,636
I'm sure Dus10 and others will continue to call me a hater since I don't have Rajon Rondo in my top 3, but I refuse to rank someone that high if they can't create their own shot. As many different ways as he can impact a game, creating his own shot is just not one of the things that Rondo can do effectively. He really improved his game and made a huge run during the playoffs with his nifty defense and his playmaking ability on the offensive end. He's arguably the best rebounding point guard in the NBA right now, which leads to coast-to-coast offense for the Celtics who were primary a half-court offense. It'll be interesting to see how well he transitions once the Big 3 has broken up with Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen likely signing elsewhere. He'll be asked to handle more of the scoring load, and we will see how he responds.
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| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
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keysersoze3421
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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You indicated in the Rondo thread that you would take Parker over Rondo and seemed to hint at preferring Westbrook and Irving as well. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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This guy wants to tell me we're living in a community? Don't make me laugh. I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business. |
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 30533
Location: 'Merica
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| keysersoze3421 wrote: | | You indicated in the Rondo thread that you would take Parker over Rondo and seemed to hint at preferring Westbrook and Irving as well. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
Players 4-7 really are a fluid situation and very much don't have a ton of difference between the four of them. I'd probably take Westbrook and Irving over Rondo if I were building a franchise, but Rondo is slightly more talented and played really well in the playoffs.
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| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 23293
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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People who say Rondo can't create his own shot are horribly wrong. That isn't the problem, the problem is he can't finish his own shot.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 30533
Location: 'Merica
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| BLick12 wrote: | | People who say Rondo can't create his own shot are horribly wrong. That isn't the problem, the problem is he can't finish his own shot. |
Are you really nitpicking on what I say? When I say that I mean create his own shot and make it.
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| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
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c0insnap
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14892
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get it, Kyrie turns the ball over less than Nash, Wall, Westbrook and Rondo, yet none of them are mentioned as having to improve their ability to take care of the ball.
Why don't we just come out and say it? Kyrie really doesn't have any weaknesses offensively. He's essentially the perfect point guard, and when he gets better teammates those assist numbers will go up.
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 23293
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | BLick12 wrote: | | People who say Rondo can't create his own shot are horribly wrong. That isn't the problem, the problem is he can't finish his own shot. |
Are you really nitpicking on what I say? When I say that I mean create his own shot and make it. |
It isn't nitpicking, there is a difference. Rondo can create his own shot, be it an open jumper, a lay up, etc. He can get whatever he wants, partly because people don't respect his jumper but he can take it to the hole and create as well. He just doesn't finish well.
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| johndeere1707 wrote: |
Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.
Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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Faulk28SJaX39
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 2148
Location: Bmore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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1. Rose
2. D-Will
3. CP3
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CWood21
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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Location: 'Merica
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| c0insnap wrote: | I don't get it, Kyrie turns the ball over less than Nash, Wall, Westbrook and Rondo, yet none of them are mentioned as having to improve their ability to take care of the ball.
Why don't we just come out and say it? Kyrie really doesn't have any weaknesses offensively. He's essentially the perfect point guard, and when he gets better teammates those assist numbers will go up. |
He's a rookie point guard, there is always room for improvement. He's not the greatest passer, although I'm not sure how much of it has to do with the lack of talent around him. His AST/TO differential isn't what the other top PGs are, but he's only a rookie and he's got a ton of room for improvement.
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| iPwn wrote: | | If I was going to blow $2,600 on a night of fun, the last thing I would be thinking to do was play skee ball. |
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the lone star
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 21147
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I guess it will be CP3, Deron, and then DRose
Although I would have it CP3, DRose, and then Deron.
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Raves
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 16852
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| CWood21 wrote: | | c0insnap wrote: | I don't get it, Kyrie turns the ball over less than Nash, Wall, Westbrook and Rondo, yet none of them are mentioned as having to improve their ability to take care of the ball.
Why don't we just come out and say it? Kyrie really doesn't have any weaknesses offensively. He's essentially the perfect point guard, and when he gets better teammates those assist numbers will go up. |
He's a rookie point guard, there is always room for improvement. He's not the greatest passer, although I'm not sure how much of it has to do with the lack of talent around him. His AST/TO differential isn't what the other top PGs are, but he's only a rookie and he's got a ton of room for improvement. |
If his teammates could knock down even 1/3rd of the open looks he gave them then his AST/TO Differential would be right there.
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2011 Stats:
Malcolm Jenkins - 78 Tackles, 1 Sack, 1 FF, 9 PD, 1 FRTD
Jimmy Graham - 99 catches, 1310 yards, 11 TD |
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neezy007
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 8237
Location: El Paso
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really excited to see Irving play for the rest of his career. When I get NBA league pass, sometime in the future, I'm going to make sure I watch cav games.
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| Big7BenMVP wrote: | | OMG I LOVE YOU CHAEL! I WANNA TOUCH YOUR BODY! |
That's how I feel too <3 |
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