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norcalraider510
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:01 am Post subject: Division Talk |
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2 years ago we swept the west, last year we went 3-3...how do we do this year?
btw, i was looking over Denver/KC schedule for the first time...
Broncos
steelers
falcons
texans
Raiders @ Denver(they call us daddy every time we go over there, McFadden will probably be healthy by then)
patriots
chargers
saints
KC
falcons
bills
saints
chargers
ravens
bucs
i can easily see either of them starting off the first half of the season with 1/2 wins. Agree? disagree?
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| What a brutal way to start for the Broncos. |
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NickButera
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I won't be too surprised if the Broncos eek out only 2 wins in that stretch, but I'm not expecting that. They shouldn't be that bad of a team and I think will compete in many of those games.
I don't think KC has 2 or less wins after that. They will be a much better team, and on top of that, Atlanta, Bucs, SD and Buffalo May not come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. They could just as easily struggle to get going.
In an ideal world for Raider fans, yea. I see a possibility of that happening, but realistically I can't see either of them with 2 or under wins after that point.
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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I just did my predictions for the upcoming season in my blog in the sig. I can't decide who will win the division between the Broncos and the Chiefs.... I have us getting the wildcard spot though. 
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here is my lengthy division analysis of each team. (I'm not ready to predict anything to date).
Let's start at the presumed top -
Denver Broncos
They get Peyton Manning and the masses pencil them into the playoffs and division crown. On paper, seems about right given Manning's history. But is it that simple?
We are talking about a guy at 36 coming off injury, who hasn't played in over a year. And the last snaps he took, he was in his comfort zone in Indy with a OC he'd worked with since 1998.
It's a new day for Manning. New OC, new teams, new division. Can he be the Manning of old? Even the 2010 version was showing signs of age w/ 17 INTs. And Manning's never been a strong outdoor in the elements QB.
My Take:
Manning will be solid, but not his old self. The Oline has holes at RT, LG and C to an extent. The running game of 2011 looked better than it actually was in large part due to Tim Tebow.
The defense is still soft on the Dline. The safeties are suspect. Adding Mike Adams helps, but they are still thin. They gave up a lot of points to good offenses, I see that trend continuing.
Overall. This season is a bust for Denver. They expect to win the division and win now with the Manning addition. Their schedule is tough and I see them struggling to find 9 wins in what will be a disappointing season.
Kansas City Chiefs
Will here is this squad. Their fans are chest thumping about having one of the best rosters not just in the AFC West, but in the NFL. They can't tell us enough about how great they expect to be after an injury riddled 2011 season.
And optimism runs high. Getting Charles and Berry back can't hurt. They have a coach they seem to believe in. They have a defense that many tout as among the best up and comings in the league.
My Take:
Crennel was a stiff in Cleveland and I imagine will be a stiff in KC. He will call the defense, but with the HC duties on top of them I think they suffer.
That defense gets back Eric Berry, who's game is speed and quick cuts. So that knee has to be 100% and may need another year. Their Dline is filled with meh 1st round selections Dorsey and Jackson. Add to the mix, Poe the latest workout warrior who's production in college was mediocre at best.
The biggest loss is Carr. His replacement, Routt we all know. He's not on Carr's level and can be beat or flagged regularly.
On offense, like Berry Charles is back. Another player who relies on stop and go and quick cuts. Will his knee let him play his game? But all that is for not with QB Matt Cassell who is hands down the weakest QB in the division. Many will remember him in 2010 under Charlie Weis, now OC Brian Dabol is calling the shots. Here is a guys who's offense have been among the worst. Hard to see him getting much out of Cassell.
The schedule sets up for a rough 5 weeks. Crennel being such a player coach, when they start slow can he keep them together? I have my doubts. A lot of their success will depend on a QB nobody believes in and returning players showing they are back to form. A lot has to go right.
San Diego Chargers
This team is flying under the radar this offseason. They boast a QB who can sling the ball as well as anyone. A RB who is poised for big things. A coach who might be on his last leg.
My Take:
This all starts with Rivers and his coach Turner. Last year was a who's who of Oline bodies. When they finally settled in on the Oline, the Chargers were as potent as ever on offense. Look for that to continue. They lose Jackson, but gain Meachem and Royal. Meachem should fill Jackson's deep threat role fine. Royal is a guy I think will thrive w/ Rivers and Turner. After a strong rookie season, he's been MIA. This offense could awaken him.
On defense, there are some holes and nobody is sure what to expect with the change in DC. Ingram should add to the pass rush and I look for this unit to do enough to help what will be an explosive offense.
Chargers are the team to beat in division if I had to wager a guess. Best QB will win and Rivers is that guy.
Oakland Raiders
This is the team NOBODY is talking about. They've been written off in the division. To much turnover. No money. No draft picks. The list goes on. This is the 'rebuilding' year.
But this is a team that went 8-8 the last 2 seasons. A team that proved to have a pretty potent young offense last season even after injuries to some core players.
My Take
This could go either way. Could be roller coaster season adjusting to new faces in the front office, the sidelines and the field. A team that wins some games nobody thought they would, looses others.
I look at the changes as a positive. No more guess work between coaches and management. 1 clear vision for everyone involved. The air is clear. So now everyone can do their job without meddling from outside sources.
On offense, you have Palmer. Love him or hate him, he's a savvy vet who showed he still had the arm. Now he's settled in with the team and learning the offense. An offense that will run through McFadden, who when healthy is among the best backs in football. The question is, can Palmer adjust to Knapp's offense or is Knapp going to have to adjust to him?
On defense, the Dline gets a boost from Shauggnesy coming back. That unit is deep. Branch and Huff are a solid tandem in the back end. The rest is a who's who of players either getting second shots or trying to prove themselves. The biggest question is scheme. Was Davis really to blame and can they be less vanilla with success? And of course it all comes down to discipline for the Raiders. Can they play smart and eliminate the mistakes that led them to a record setter in penalties?
Final Analysis:
Broncos - All or nothing on Manning. Still a number of holes on the team. They will disappoint given their lofty expectations.
Chiefs - Not as good as their fans like to tell us they are. QB is a major issue. Crennel has to prove he can be a HC and the returning injured players need to prove 100% from their injuries.
Chargers - Best QB in the division that will carry them to the top. Suspect in areas on defense, but decent enough to maintain for River's offense.
Raiders - Who? They could silently surprise people. They will finish middle of the road or be that surprising team ala the 2010 Bucs who just keep winning.
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oak42069
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| big_palooka wrote: | Here is my lengthy division analysis of each team. (I'm not ready to predict anything to date).
Let's start at the presumed top -
Denver Broncos
They get Peyton Manning and the masses pencil them into the playoffs and division crown. On paper, seems about right given Manning's history. But is it that simple?
We are talking about a guy at 36 coming off injury, who hasn't played in over a year. And the last snaps he took, he was in his comfort zone in Indy with a OC he'd worked with since 1998.
It's a new day for Manning. New OC, new teams, new division. Can he be the Manning of old? Even the 2010 version was showing signs of age w/ 17 INTs. And Manning's never been a strong outdoor in the elements QB.
My Take:
Manning will be solid, but not his old self. The Oline has holes at RT, LG and C to an extent. The running game of 2011 looked better than it actually was in large part due to Tim Tebow.
The defense is still soft on the Dline. The safeties are suspect. Adding Mike Adams helps, but they are still thin. They gave up a lot of points to good offenses, I see that trend continuing.
Overall. This season is a bust for Denver. They expect to win the division and win now with the Manning addition. Their schedule is tough and I see them struggling to find 9 wins in what will be a disappointing season.
Kansas City Chiefs
Will here is this squad. Their fans are chest thumping about having one of the best rosters not just in the AFC West, but in the NFL. They can't tell us enough about how great they expect to be after an injury riddled 2011 season.
And optimism runs high. Getting Charles and Berry back can't hurt. They have a coach they seem to believe in. They have a defense that many tout as among the best up and comings in the league.
My Take:
Crennel was a stiff in Cleveland and I imagine will be a stiff in KC. He will call the defense, but with the HC duties on top of them I think they suffer.
That defense gets back Eric Berry, who's game is speed and quick cuts. So that knee has to be 100% and may need another year. Their Dline is filled with meh 1st round selections Dorsey and Jackson. Add to the mix, Poe the latest workout warrior who's production in college was mediocre at best.
The biggest loss is Carr. His replacement, Routt we all know. He's not on Carr's level and can be beat or flagged regularly.
On offense, like Berry Charles is back. Another player who relies on stop and go and quick cuts. Will his knee let him play his game? But all that is for not with QB Matt Cassell who is hands down the weakest QB in the division. Many will remember him in 2010 under Charlie Weis, now OC Brian Dabol is calling the shots. Here is a guys who's offense have been among the worst. Hard to see him getting much out of Cassell.
The schedule sets up for a rough 5 weeks. Crennel being such a player coach, when they start slow can he keep them together? I have my doubts. A lot of their success will depend on a QB nobody believes in and returning players showing they are back to form. A lot has to go right.
San Diego Chargers
This team is flying under the radar this offseason. They boast a QB who can sling the ball as well as anyone. A RB who is poised for big things. A coach who might be on his last leg.
My Take:
This all starts with Rivers and his coach Turner. Last year was a who's who of Oline bodies. When they finally settled in on the Oline, the Chargers were as potent as ever on offense. Look for that to continue. They lose Jackson, but gain Meachem and Royal. Meachem should fill Jackson's deep threat role fine. Royal is a guy I think will thrive w/ Rivers and Turner. After a strong rookie season, he's been MIA. This offense could awaken him.
On defense, there are some holes and nobody is sure what to expect with the change in DC. Ingram should add to the pass rush and I look for this unit to do enough to help what will be an explosive offense.
Chargers are the team to beat in division if I had to wager a guess. Best QB will win and Rivers is that guy.
Oakland Raiders
This is the team NOBODY is talking about. They've been written off in the division. To much turnover. No money. No draft picks. The list goes on. This is the 'rebuilding' year.
But this is a team that went 8-8 the last 2 seasons. A team that proved to have a pretty potent young offense last season even after injuries to some core players.
My Take
This could go either way. Could be roller coaster season adjusting to new faces in the front office, the sidelines and the field. A team that wins some games nobody thought they would, looses others.
I look at the changes as a positive. No more guess work between coaches and management. 1 clear vision for everyone involved. The air is clear. So now everyone can do their job without meddling from outside sources.
On offense, you have Palmer. Love him or hate him, he's a savvy vet who showed he still had the arm. Now he's settled in with the team and learning the offense. An offense that will run through McFadden, who when healthy is among the best backs in football. The question is, can Palmer adjust to Knapp's offense or is Knapp going to have to adjust to him?
On defense, the Dline gets a boost from Shauggnesy coming back. That unit is deep. Branch and Huff are a solid tandem in the back end. The rest is a who's who of players either getting second shots or trying to prove themselves. The biggest question is scheme. Was Davis really to blame and can they be less vanilla with success? And of course it all comes down to discipline for the Raiders. Can they play smart and eliminate the mistakes that led them to a record setter in penalties?
Final Analysis:
Broncos - All or nothing on Manning. Still a number of holes on the team. They will disappoint given their lofty expectations.
Chiefs - Not as good as their fans like to tell us they are. QB is a major issue. Crennel has to prove he can be a HC and the returning injured players need to prove 100% from their injuries.
Chargers - Best QB in the division that will carry them to the top. Suspect in areas on defense, but decent enough to maintain for River's offense.
Raiders - Who? They could silently surprise people. They will finish middle of the road or be that surprising team ala the 2010 Bucs who just keep winning. |
bravo on that analysis !
i for one am not going to argue with it to for the sake of creating an argument but, well thought out and jus a great read. |
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
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Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Charger's window has closed. Matthews is nothing special, just because he's young doesn't mean he's going to be good. I just feel like he lacks that burst to get past defenders, and he's not strong enough to overcome that weakness. I guess we'll see but I think the Chargers offense is severely limited with Vincent Jackson gone. That's why in my predictions in my blog I have the Chargers finishing last in our division at 7-9.
The Broncos it's so difficult to determine if Manning will still play at a high level. He's making all the throws now, but when he puts on the pads and stands high in the pocket we'll see how comfortable will he feel. It's definitely gotta be eating him up that one more solid hit could end his career for good. Their defense is average, and they have SOME potential at WR, but nothing special.
The Chiefs I think could win the division again if the Broncos seem to struggle with Peyton. That's why I have the two game difference between the Broncos and Chiefs, because if Peyton plays like his former self, the Broncos will sweep the Chiefs. If Peyton has lost it, then the Chiefs will sweep the Broncos. I feel their matchups will ultimately determine the outcome of our division.
Raiders, I think this is our best shot to win the division. As we've all stated numerous times, Palmer will have McFadden to play with for the first time and that alone will upgrade our offense and scoring efficiency to an elite level. It all depends on how our new additions to the secondary perform. Hopefully our D will actually be able to close out games this year. If they can, there's no reason why we can't beat out the other 3 teams. I personally think we will get the last WC spot with a 9-7 record.
Assuming Peyton plays at a fairly high level:
Denver 10-6
Oakland 9-7
Kansas City 8-8
San Diego 7-9
I already know this division is going to come down to the last week of the season, any team can win it... but those are my predictions.
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big_palooka
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | | I think the Charger's window has closed. Matthews is nothing special, just because he's young doesn't mean he's going to be good. I just feel like he lacks that burst to get past defenders, and he's not strong enough to overcome that weakness. I guess we'll see but I think the Chargers offense is severely limited with Vincent Jackson gone. That's why in my predictions in my blog I have the Chargers finishing last in our division at 7-9. |
Matthews 1500 all purpose yards in 14 games suggest he is in fact, good. He's going into his 3rd year. He's a 4.4 guy. Has the speed and he looked the part last year. I don't agree with you at all on him. He's young, already showing some solid skill and can build on that.
I don't agree with the offense being 'severely limited' with Jackson gone. Rivers did just fine without him. Meachem can stretch the field and Rivers can hit any WR. Brown, Floyd, Meachem and Royal paired with Gates. That is a solid set of weapons.
| RaisinBran wrote: | | The Broncos it's so difficult to determine if Manning will still play at a high level. He's making all the throws now, but when he puts on the pads and stands high in the pocket we'll see how comfortable will he feel. It's definitely gotta be eating him up that one more solid hit could end his career for good. Their defense is average, and they have SOME potential at WR, but nothing special. |
Agree. It all comes down to Manning. And in my opinion he won't do enough.
| RaisinBran wrote: | | The Chiefs I think could win the division again if the Broncos seem to struggle with Peyton. That's why I have the two game difference between the Broncos and Chiefs, because if Peyton plays like his former self, the Broncos will sweep the Chiefs. If Peyton has lost it, then the Chiefs will sweep the Broncos. I feel their matchups will ultimately determine the outcome of our division. |
I don't understand how after reading this how you ranked KC third. I think these teams will split. Division games are tough not matter the circumstances. Both have holes and excel in certain areas.
| RaisinBran wrote: | | Raiders, I think this is our best shot to win the division. As we've all stated numerous times, Palmer will have McFadden to play with for the first time and that alone will upgrade our offense and scoring efficiency to an elite level. It all depends on how our new additions to the secondary perform. Hopefully our D will actually be able to close out games this year. If they can, there's no reason why we can't beat out the other 3 teams. I personally think we will get the last WC spot with a 9-7 record. |
Little wishful thinking here. I don't see this as the best shot to win the division. Last year was an easier road. The division is much improved and the Raiders are going through a lot of changes.
I don't see a wildcard or division title for Oakland. A lot would have to come together. But they are the boom or bust team in the division.
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RaisinBran
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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----Matthews does not have much lateral quickness, that's what I was trying to say. Not necesarily straight line speed, which is what 40 times are. Matthews is currently doing a lot of lateral agility workouts, because he knows its something he has to improve. I just don't think Matthews has any real elusive ability. The all purpose yards are kind of pointless to mention because we all know Rivers likes to check down a lot to the RB right in front of him. Look at this TD run by Matthews, not one cut was even made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2GJc8Pj3w I know I know, it's only ONE run, but honestly that's how most of Matthew's runs are. He doesn't really change direction well IMO. But he could get better at it.
Yea the Chargers have some new WR's, but Royal hasn't done anything since making Deangelo Hall look like an idiot 3 years ago. Meachem might stretch the field, but there's nothing guaranteed with him... he was the 4th WR on the Saints depth chart so he didn't have much attention given to him. We will see how he produces. Rivers will probably continue to throw jump balls to Vincent Brown and Floyd, I think we will be able to stop it better this year since we won't play strictly man to man the entire game. Because of this the jump balls Rivers liked to throw against us won't be as successful because our CB's won't have their backs to the ball as often. Plus, Gates and Floyd get injured every year it seems, so I'm assuming they will miss some games this upcoming season. Both Floyd and Gates have missed 9 games the past 2 seasons.
And let's not even talk about how bad their defense is.....
---Glad you agree on the Broncos, although that reasoning is pretty obvious to everyone.
---I think the Chiefs finish either 3rd or 1st. As stated, I believe one team will sweep the other so that explains the 8-8 to 10-6 jump for them. You might not see it that way but that's just my opinion. I'm seriously considering putting them at 10-6 at the top, because I really don't think Manning will be that successful, but he certainly could be.
---As for the Raiders, we have gone 8-8 the last 2 years, so with the improvements to the D, and the offseason training camp Carson needed badly, who's to say we can't go 9-7 this year? We might not dominant the division like in the 2010-11 season but we will probably go 3-3 again maybe 4-2.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| With new defensive coaching and Carson Palmer having an off-season to workout with the team, it will come down to how many games McFadden can stay healthy for, because I think the Raiders basement is 8-8, with their ceiling being 12-4. When McFaddens on the field, the Raiders are a completely different team. He's the most impactfull player in the division and Carson Palmer is really going to benefit by playing with him. As we saw last season, Carson Palmers at his best when throwing deep after play-action. The Raiders O is going to give opposing defenses a lot of problems with the amount of explosive weapons they have across the board. |
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: |
who's to say we can't go 9-7 this year?
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At this point we can still go 16-0, so yeah, no one can. When comparing each teams, the Raiders are the worst. They're not necessarily worse than last year but the other 3 are improved (on paper, at least). But there's so many unknowns with them that they could surprise if everything pans out. It seems unlikely everything goes our way though. |
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BlackPrestige92
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | RaisinBran wrote: |
who's to say we can't go 9-7 this year?
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At this point we can still go 16-0, so yeah, no one can. When comparing each teams, the Raiders are the worst. |
I disagree, but I'd like to hear why do you think we are the worst team?
Every team in the division improved through acquisitions... We have young WR's that will get better, an elite RB that will produce, and I believe Palmer will put up an elite season this year.
Our D should be able to close out games this year. No more stupid prevent when we have a lead, no more stupid man to man the entire game (I'm sure Rivers used to love playing against us and making all the easy reads), and no more 15 stupid pass interference calls on Stanford Routt that keep opposing team's drives alive. IMO we've already fixed most of our defensive problems in one offseason (I know some will disagree), and if you don't expect much improvement from our D then I can understand that, but I have confidence things will be better.
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NickButera
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | | Our D should be able to close out games this year. No more stupid prevent when we have a lead, no more stupid man to man the entire game (I'm sure Rivers used to love playing against us and making all the easy reads), and no more 15 stupid pass interference calls on Stanford Routt that keep opposing team's drives alive. IMO we've already fixed most of our defensive problems in one offseason (I know some will disagree), and if you don't expect much improvement from our D then I can understand that, but I have confidence things will be better. |
Things like this get me wondering. Will teams have any idea how to defend against us until mid season, when we've got plenty of tape out on us, because of the complete change in scheme and defensive mentality? You have to imagine teams had a relatively good idea of how we'd play them defensively the last 5 years, no matter who the DC was. Wouldn't surprise me, for many reasons, if our defense played great the first 4-6 games.
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true2form
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | ----Matthews does not have much lateral quickness, that's what I was trying to say. Not necesarily straight line speed, which is what 40 times are. Matthews is currently doing a lot of lateral agility workouts, because he knows its something he has to improve. I just don't think Matthews has any real elusive ability. The all purpose yards are kind of pointless to mention because we all know Rivers likes to check down a lot to the RB right in front of him. Look at this TD run by Matthews, not one cut was even made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI2GJc8Pj3w I know I know, it's only ONE run, but honestly that's how most of Matthew's runs are. He doesn't really change direction well IMO. But he could get better at it.
Yea the Chargers have some new WR's, but Royal hasn't done anything since making Deangelo Hall look like an idiot 3 years ago. Meachem might stretch the field, but there's nothing guaranteed with him... he was the 4th WR on the Saints depth chart so he didn't have much attention given to him. We will see how he produces. Rivers will probably continue to throw jump balls to Vincent Brown and Floyd, I think we will be able to stop it better this year since we won't play strictly man to man the entire game. Because of this the jump balls Rivers liked to throw against us won't be as successful because our CB's won't have their backs to the ball as often. Plus, Gates and Floyd get injured every year it seems, so I'm assuming they will miss some games this upcoming season. Both Floyd and Gates have missed 9 games the past 2 seasons.
And let's not even talk about how bad their defense is.....
---Glad you agree on the Broncos, although that reasoning is pretty obvious to everyone.
---I think the Chiefs finish either 3rd or 1st. As stated, I believe one team will sweep the other so that explains the 8-8 to 10-6 jump for them. You might not see it that way but that's just my opinion. I'm seriously considering putting them at 10-6 at the top, because I really don't think Manning will be that successful, but he certainly could be.
---As for the Raiders, we have gone 8-8 the last 2 years, so with the improvements to the D, and the offseason training camp Carson needed badly, who's to say we can't go 9-7 this year? We might not dominant the division like in the 2010-11 season but we will probably go 3-3 again maybe 4-2. |
I agree with most of this.
Matthews reminds me of another up and coming young RB that was supposed to take the division by storm. Knowshon Moreno. A guy who flashes, but just can't make the transition from good to great and eventually gets replaced. I think the Chargers will stay put in the 8-8 range due to their weak defense and losses on offense. Rivers will always keep them in games, but he is not elite and will ultimately try to do too much once again.
The Broncos are the toughest team to pick IMO. A lot of experts are picking them to have a great year. As much as I have liked Peyton throughout his career, I just can't see it this year. With Peyton you just expect 10-6, so why do I want to say 4-12? Their defense is just plain bad IMO and I fail to see the improvement. Their D-line is worse and their back 7 are a mix of too old, too young, or just bad.
The Chiefs have the best team on paper in the division, but also the worst QB. I could see them going 10-6 again like two years ago if everything lines up. However, I don't think guys coming back from injury will be 100% and Cassell will not win them any games. Romeo was a bad head coach in Cleveland and I don't see how he is better in KC.
Now our Raiders. 12-4 or 13-3? So hard to decide. I do want to go that route though. The only things that will stop this team from winning the division are the amount of change and injuries. I want to say we'll be the 49ers of last year, we'll just do it with offense instead of D. Honestly who really knows with this team though. The offense clicks on all cylinders and the D becomes middle of the road with the new system and a lot of prove it type players. Or the defense struggles with so much change and the injury bug strikes again on offense.
It's too early for predictions though. I'm just happy that training camp and preseason are around the corner.
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