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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8872
Location: 925 Bay Area
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 Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| game3525 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
Rivers has had tall WR's to throw to his entire career, as well as an all pro TE in Gates. That's why he has been successful IMO, especially on deep throws.
Name the last short WR that produced with Rivers?
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game3525
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 2019
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | game3525 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
I am sorry, but that is just nonsense.
Rivers can make every throw in the book. If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
Rivers doesn't have the elite zip that Cutler has on his passes. Thats pretty clear to see. That doesn't hold Rivers back from being a great QB, but it does make a difference on the passes and WRs he specializes throwing to. It's not a coincidence that the Chargers have rostered big WRs throughout Rivers career. |
Rivers doesn't have Cutlers arm strength, but then again who does?
The point is his arm is strong enough to make every throw. You can't be an top-tier quarterback if you can't make every throw the offense required.
Our offense has never had a slot receiver because Norv primarily likes to use base personnel. He likes his two starting WR to be big and physical and fight for the ball, he was the same way with Michael Irvin and Alvin Harper in Dallas.
This is a trade mark of a Norv Turner offense not because Rivers can't throw to short guys. |
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game3525
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 2019
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | | game3525 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
Rivers has had tall WR's to throw to his entire career, as well as an all pro TE in Gates. That's why he has been successful IMO, especially on deep throws.
Name the last short WR that produced with Rivers? |
Rivers was a top 5 QB in 2010 while throwing to guys like Seyi Ajirtutu and Patrick Crayton for a good portion of the season. Guys whom last time I check aren't giants or are known for their leaping abilities.
The supporting cast argument was debunked then. Rivers is a great QB because he efficient, historically doesn't make many mistakes, and can make every throw in the book. |
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12573
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkness wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | | Mathews is nothing like Moreno. Ones a 3rd string RB bust, while the other is one of the leagues top up and coming young talents. Mathews is a very explosive runner who has a great mix of speed and power. I really like his game. He won't be in the same tier as McFadden, but he'll be right below with Ray Rice and Matt Forte. |
imo ray rice is the best rb in the game right now.
dmac has some serious catching up to do |
No he doesn't. The only thing Rice is better then McFadden at is staying healthy. I love Rice, but he's not a game breaker, which when compared with another compete RB like DMC, makes the difference. I wouldn't put Rice in my top 5 TBH. |
what? lol rice is a game breaker plus he does a better job holding on to the rock, can break the long runs just like dmac, imo is a better receiver out the back field than dmac and has a better nose for the endzone.
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norcalraider510
Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 6376
Location: The Itty Bitty City By The Water
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24619
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| norcalraider510 wrote: | The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy |
Co-sign. Love me some Ray Rice but if you tell me they're both going to play in the same amount of games in a season then I take McFadden every time. DMC is a better Ray Rice. Talent =/= durability. Although some durability would be lovely
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12573
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| norcalraider510 wrote: | The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy |
its hard to use 2011 to compare dmac to rice because no one knows how dmac "could" have finished the season "if" he stayed healthy.
its always "if" and "could" when debating dmac and you guys are generously optimistic when it comes to him. It like me saying rice went 13 carries or less in 5 games last year "if" he had more carries he "could" have put up even better #'s.
dmac's best year (2010) cant touch rice's 2nd best year (2009) with a 10 foot pole and rice plays in arguably the toughest defensive division in the nfl.
rice is just as good if not better of a rb and receiving back than dmac and he has proven it year after year. rice has almost 1k carries and has only fumbled it 5 times.
rice is the best rb in the game right now.
i wanted him on draft day. he puts up great #'s and has continued to exceeded my expectations so far, cant say the same for dmac.
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RaisinBran
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Posts: 8872
Location: 925 Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| game3525 wrote: | | RaisinBran wrote: | | game3525 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
Rivers has had tall WR's to throw to his entire career, as well as an all pro TE in Gates. That's why he has been successful IMO, especially on deep throws.
Name the last short WR that produced with Rivers? |
Rivers was a top 5 QB in 2010 while throwing to guys like Seyi Ajirtutu and Patrick Crayton for a good portion of the season. Guys whom last time I check aren't giants or are known for their leaping abilities.
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Hmmm okay so only half a season in his entire career he didn't have tall WR's to bail him out... got it. 
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game3525
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 2019
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| RaisinBran wrote: | | game3525 wrote: | | RaisinBran wrote: | | game3525 wrote: | | Darkness wrote: | The thing about making comparisons about how Royal played with Cutler and how he might play with Rivers is Cutler has arguably the strongest arm in the league, while Rivers has one of the weakest (in terms of zip). The thing I noticed about Royal is that he isn't explosive coming out of his breaks, and lacks size, which means he doesn't give his QBs a very big window to throw into. Cutlers ability to sling the ball into small windows helped compensate for that. Rivers can't do that, which is why I think his impact will be minimal.
Malcolm Floyd and Robert Meachem on the other hand are great deep threats who Rivers will thrive throwing down the field to. |
If Royal fails it will be due to injury or getting passed up on the depth chart by Vincent Brown. Not because Rivers can't throw in tight windows like Cutler. |
Rivers has had tall WR's to throw to his entire career, as well as an all pro TE in Gates. That's why he has been successful IMO, especially on deep throws.
Name the last short WR that produced with Rivers? |
Rivers was a top 5 QB in 2010 while throwing to guys like Seyi Ajirtutu and Patrick Crayton for a good portion of the season. Guys whom last time I check aren't giants or are known for their leaping abilities.
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Hmmm okay so only half a season in his entire career he didn't have tall WR's to bail him out... got it. |
Whatever you say man. 
You just look really ignorant when you insist it is the WR that makes Rivers, when evidence says otherwise. |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24619
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say having big WRs and Gates has helped Rivers, but they don't 'make' him. I mean, he's been making nobodies look good with Gates and VJax out for years. Not even WRs that are that good either. Legedu Naane, Seyi Ajirotutu, Vincent Brown all come to mind. Rivers did have a bad season for him last year though
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true2form
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 671
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | norcalraider510 wrote: | The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy |
its hard to use 2011 to compare dmac to rice because no one knows how dmac "could" have finished the season "if" he stayed healthy.
its always "if" and "could" when debating dmac and you guys are generously optimistic when it comes to him. It like me saying rice went 13 carries or less in 5 games last year "if" he had more carries he "could" have put up even better #'s.
dmac's best year (2010) cant touch rice's 2nd best year (2009) with a 10 foot pole and rice plays in arguably the toughest defensive division in the nfl.
rice is just as good if not better of a rb and receiving back than dmac and he has proven it year after year. rice has almost 1k carries and has only fumbled it 5 times.
rice is the best rb in the game right now.
i wanted him on draft day. he puts up great #'s and has continued to exceeded my expectations so far, cant say the same for dmac. |
So you would take Rice over Bo Jackson then? Bo never played a full season, but he was clearly one of the best of all time when he did play. Full seasons and a full career make things easier to look at, but the per game stats don't lie. DMC, like Bo, is hands down a more dynamic player than Rice.
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Darkness
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 4159
Location: CA-TX
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | norcalraider510 wrote: | The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy |
its hard to use 2011 to compare dmac to rice because no one knows how dmac "could" have finished the season "if" he stayed healthy.
its always "if" and "could" when debating dmac and you guys are generously optimistic when it comes to him. It like me saying rice went 13 carries or less in 5 games last year "if" he had more carries he "could" have put up even better #'s.
dmac's best year (2010) cant touch rice's 2nd best year (2009) with a 10 foot pole and rice plays in arguably the toughest defensive division in the nfl.
rice is just as good if not better of a rb and receiving back than dmac and he has proven it year after year. rice has almost 1k carries and has only fumbled it 5 times.
rice is the best rb in the game right now.
i wanted him on draft day. he puts up great #'s and has continued to exceeded my expectations so far, cant say the same for dmac. |
Darren McFadden was leading the league in rushing last season, while averaging well over 5 yards per carry. The season before, he was 2nd in yards per game while averaging over 5 yards a carry again. He also lead the league in runs over 20 yards both seasons. There's nothing hypothetical about what kind of talent he is. Ray Rice can't touch him. Adrian Peterson is the only other RB that compares.
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NCOUGHMAN
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 12573
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| true2form wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | norcalraider510 wrote: | The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy |
its hard to use 2011 to compare dmac to rice because no one knows how dmac "could" have finished the season "if" he stayed healthy.
its always "if" and "could" when debating dmac and you guys are generously optimistic when it comes to him. It like me saying rice went 13 carries or less in 5 games last year "if" he had more carries he "could" have put up even better #'s.
dmac's best year (2010) cant touch rice's 2nd best year (2009) with a 10 foot pole and rice plays in arguably the toughest defensive division in the nfl.
rice is just as good if not better of a rb and receiving back than dmac and he has proven it year after year. rice has almost 1k carries and has only fumbled it 5 times.
rice is the best rb in the game right now.
i wanted him on draft day. he puts up great #'s and has continued to exceeded my expectations so far, cant say the same for dmac. |
So you would take Rice over Bo Jackson then? Bo never played a full season, but he was clearly one of the best of all time when he did play. Full seasons and a full career make things easier to look at, but the per game stats don't lie. DMC, like Bo, is hands down a more dynamic player than Rice. |
hard to compare diff generations but i see what you're trying to say.
dmac may be the most dynamic but he is not the best, complete pound for pound rb in the nfl right now.
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true2form
Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 671
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | true2form wrote: | | NCOUGHMAN wrote: | | norcalraider510 wrote: | The only thing Ray Rice does better than McFadden is staying healthy, anything else that he does McFadden can do at a high level.
Im not one to look at stats that much but heres a good one.
Runs over 20 yd
Ray Rice(85 ypg) in 16 games 9
McFadden(87 ypg) in 7 games 8
Runs over 40 yd
Ray Rice in 16 games 5
McFadden in 7 games 3
If only he could stay healthy |
its hard to use 2011 to compare dmac to rice because no one knows how dmac "could" have finished the season "if" he stayed healthy.
its always "if" and "could" when debating dmac and you guys are generously optimistic when it comes to him. It like me saying rice went 13 carries or less in 5 games last year "if" he had more carries he "could" have put up even better #'s.
dmac's best year (2010) cant touch rice's 2nd best year (2009) with a 10 foot pole and rice plays in arguably the toughest defensive division in the nfl.
rice is just as good if not better of a rb and receiving back than dmac and he has proven it year after year. rice has almost 1k carries and has only fumbled it 5 times.
rice is the best rb in the game right now.
i wanted him on draft day. he puts up great #'s and has continued to exceeded my expectations so far, cant say the same for dmac. |
So you would take Rice over Bo Jackson then? Bo never played a full season, but he was clearly one of the best of all time when he did play. Full seasons and a full career make things easier to look at, but the per game stats don't lie. DMC, like Bo, is hands down a more dynamic player than Rice. |
hard to compare diff generations but i see what you're trying to say.
dmac may be the most dynamic but he is not the best, complete pound for pound rb in the nfl right now. |
DMC will never be considered the best until he strings together some complete seasons, but Rice will never be the best because he is simply not the best.
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agarcia34
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 1808
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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All I gotta say is Good luck to the Broncos cause there first 7 games are brutal better hope Manning is up to the test.
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