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Could Usain Bolt surpass Phelp's legacy for GOAT??
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mse326


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
mse326 wrote:
khodder wrote:
fly eagles fly wrote:
khodder wrote:
Bolt could do the 1/2/4 triple if he wanted, of that I have no doubt. But the timing of the events makes it very difficult/impossible to do that anymore. (Bolt has a PB of 45.28 set in 2007). Bolt also holds the WB in the 150m, but that is not a recognised event, nor an olympic event.

There are runners out there capable of doing the 800/1500m double, but the fact is that the 800m semis are less than an hour before the 1500m final so they cannot even attempt it.

Swimming has much better space between events that allow people to compete in numerous events and that combined with the low impact nature of the sport makes it that much easier to compete in more than just the usual combos.

Just to be clear here; If Bolt wanted to run the 400, it would be nearly impossible for him to compete in the 100. If Bolt wanted to compete in the 110 hurdles it would make it nearly impossible for him to compete in the 200.


I can absolutely guarantee you that running a 400 is far less draining than swimming a 200. Swimming takes so much more out of you than running a race like that does. I've grown up with a pool and swam quite a bit, and ran 8 years of track. Yes, you're exhausted right after running a 200 all-out but within 20 minutes I was fully ready to go for whatever. If he really wanted to, he could do that double. As we saw, he didn't go all out in the 100 until the final, and probably would be able to do the same in the 400, with the finals being a full day apart.

The amount of races that Phelps swims is still far greater than the amount of races that Bolt would run even if he did do the 1,2,4 triple. And if you consider the 400IM, that is SOOOOO much harder than anything you can do in track. I love track and ran for quite a while, but that's a race unrivaled by anything on the track.


What I am saying is due to timing competingin in the 100m and 400m on the track in the same olympics is impossible. As is competing in the 200m and 110m Hurdles in the same olympics.

And I was not saying there is less exertion (Swimming 200 is closer to the 800m event than any of the sprints) but more so the physical toll on the joints, there is far more impact on the body on the track than in the pool which over an extended period of training makes it close to impossible to group more than two track events together (Sprint/Jump events, longer distance is different)

I don't want to compare the two sports, what I was saying is that you can compete in 4-8 events at the Olympics and have little crossover of events.

That is impossible to do on the track.


What was the timing? Because I know Lochte and Missy both swam races within half an hour of each other, and I'm sure Phelps has at some point in his olympic career as well.


The 400/100 would go - 100m Semi, 20 odd minutes, 400m semi, 20 odd minutes, 100m final.

The 110m Hurdles and the 200 would go - Semi of the 110 hurdles, once those are over, 200m semifinals, once that is over 110m hurdles final.

And these are events in which there is far more bodily impact. Than swimming.

If there were such a freak of nature that could win all four of those events, it is unlikely they would be able to race in all four becasue of the scheduling.


I don't think bodily impact has as much effect as you are making it sound. My joints and muscles tend to hurt more after swimming than running.

It might be a shorter career, but it wouldn't take any longer at your peak to recover.

And it looks like it would be about 30 minutes between each event based on the time line of this olympics.

It may not be easy but I don't think it would be any more difficult than a swimmer doing the same thing.
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howie102


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
khodder wrote:
mse326 wrote:
khodder wrote:
fly eagles fly wrote:
khodder wrote:
Bolt could do the 1/2/4 triple if he wanted, of that I have no doubt. But the timing of the events makes it very difficult/impossible to do that anymore. (Bolt has a PB of 45.28 set in 2007). Bolt also holds the WB in the 150m, but that is not a recognised event, nor an olympic event.

There are runners out there capable of doing the 800/1500m double, but the fact is that the 800m semis are less than an hour before the 1500m final so they cannot even attempt it.

Swimming has much better space between events that allow people to compete in numerous events and that combined with the low impact nature of the sport makes it that much easier to compete in more than just the usual combos.

Just to be clear here; If Bolt wanted to run the 400, it would be nearly impossible for him to compete in the 100. If Bolt wanted to compete in the 110 hurdles it would make it nearly impossible for him to compete in the 200.


I can absolutely guarantee you that running a 400 is far less draining than swimming a 200. Swimming takes so much more out of you than running a race like that does. I've grown up with a pool and swam quite a bit, and ran 8 years of track. Yes, you're exhausted right after running a 200 all-out but within 20 minutes I was fully ready to go for whatever. If he really wanted to, he could do that double. As we saw, he didn't go all out in the 100 until the final, and probably would be able to do the same in the 400, with the finals being a full day apart.

The amount of races that Phelps swims is still far greater than the amount of races that Bolt would run even if he did do the 1,2,4 triple. And if you consider the 400IM, that is SOOOOO much harder than anything you can do in track. I love track and ran for quite a while, but that's a race unrivaled by anything on the track.


What I am saying is due to timing competingin in the 100m and 400m on the track in the same olympics is impossible. As is competing in the 200m and 110m Hurdles in the same olympics.

And I was not saying there is less exertion (Swimming 200 is closer to the 800m event than any of the sprints) but more so the physical toll on the joints, there is far more impact on the body on the track than in the pool which over an extended period of training makes it close to impossible to group more than two track events together (Sprint/Jump events, longer distance is different)

I don't want to compare the two sports, what I was saying is that you can compete in 4-8 events at the Olympics and have little crossover of events.

That is impossible to do on the track.


What was the timing? Because I know Lochte and Missy both swam races within half an hour of each other, and I'm sure Phelps has at some point in his olympic career as well.


The 400/100 would go - 100m Semi, 20 odd minutes, 400m semi, 20 odd minutes, 100m final.

The 110m Hurdles and the 200 would go - Semi of the 110 hurdles, once those are over, 200m semifinals, once that is over 110m hurdles final.

And these are events in which there is far more bodily impact. Than swimming.

If there were such a freak of nature that could win all four of those events, it is unlikely they would be able to race in all four becasue of the scheduling.


I don't think bodily impact has as much effect as you are making it sound. My joints and muscles tend to hurt more after swimming than running.

It might be a shorter career, but it wouldn't take any longer at your peak to recover.

And it looks like it would be about 30 minutes between each event based on the time line of this olympics.

It may not be easy but I don't think it would be any more difficult than a swimmer doing the same thing.


Try training for both the 100 and 400. On a hard, fast tartan, our body goes through enough training for one or the other, let alone the pair.

Its all well and good arguing that they'd be able to compete in both - which i'd disagree with, especially when considernig that so very few track athletes attempt such a feat - but being able to train in the 400 and 100? Not a chance.
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x0x


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good points all-around.

I do not think you can discount the scheduling difficulties in the track events.



How should we judge the Decathalon in comparison to Phelps and Bolt?


For those who don't know or haven't looked it up, the events are:

100m
long jump
shot put
high jump
400m

The above are Day 1. Bolt would win two of those for certain and probaby long jump as well. His upper body strength leads me to believe he would do well in shot put, relative to the field, and I don't know about high jump.

110m hurdles
discus
vault
javelin
1500m

Now, it's anyone's guess how Bolt would do in those but probably not last in any, in comparison to competition, maybe he could win in 110m hurdles and javelin or discus.



With regards to Phelps, the IM has been his calling card for versatility and his Threepeat at the Fly is for his dominance.

However the freestyle/crawl is indeed the default stroke every swimmer should be decent at.


What I always wondered is how Phelps would do at the 100 free or 1,500.


Anywho, the Decathlon is something else, should include swimming.



The Pentathlon is another event.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just dont see how
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe xOx posts.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bolt won't have a chance at the 4x4.


But he's got the first ever double double in the 100-200m.


Will probably complete the triple again too.
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Blahman88


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir Steve Redgrave won 5 gold medals in 5 Olympics, he trumps both....
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khodder


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blahman88 wrote:
Sir Steve Redgrave won 5 gold medals in 5 Olympics, he trumps both....


Winning rowing golds over the course of 20 years is incredible.
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91jmay


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Especially after essentially retiring for two years in between the 4th and 5th Golds.

Redgrave was a beast, no question.
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Wolverine_Joe


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think Bolt will go down as the most dominant olympic athlete, but phelps will be remain as the greatest.
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howie102


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolverine_Joe wrote:
i think Bolt will go down as the most dominant olympic athlete, but phelps will be remain as the greatest.


Stateside, perhaps, but would have to agree that what Redgrave went through makes him the greatest.

Entirely depends on your take on volume of medals = "greatness"
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maes


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

most the world probably already forgot who redgrave was...


i think the events that Bolt accomplished his feats in (the two most watched) speaks volumes..
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Blahman88


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maes wrote:
most the world probably already forgot who redgrave was...


i think the events that Bolt accomplished his feats in (the two most watched) speaks volumes..


So, He is still the greatest Olympian, 5 Olympics, 5 golds......
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texans_uk


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maes wrote:
most the world probably already forgot who redgrave was...


Erm not anyone worth knowing.
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Blahman88


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texans_uk wrote:
maes wrote:
most the world probably already forgot who redgrave was...


Erm not anyone worth knowing.


Everyone in the rowing regatta went over to say hello to Redgrave, no matter what the team......he is a legend in the sport, and his legacy is unmatched....
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