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Piquel
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 239
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| Piquel wrote: | Stat mine much?
Lets see the comparison when we use Cassel's other two years starting.
Colt McCoy: (keeping in mind these are his rookie and 2nd years)
21 games-206 yds/game, 58%, 6.3 yds/attempt, 20 TD, 20 INT, 2.6 sacks, 75 rating, 17 rush yards/game, 3.9/carry, 12 fumbles
25 games-193 yds/game, 56.5%, 6.1 yds/attempt, 26 TD, 25 INT,2.7 sacks, 73 rating, 12 rush yards game, 3.9/carry, 19 fumbles |
| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: |
Enlighten me, I don't get how that makes a good comparison???? Most of the categories aren't even that much better anyways. |
Your hatred of Cassel prevents enlightenment, but here I go.
It doesn't make a good comparison. At least not a fair one. I did it to point out how unfair your comparison was.
But every category is better except yds per carry! That is why you didn't use stats from 08 and 10. Cassel has shown more then McCoy, FACT!
| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: |
When he has a great run game or great targets, he puts up good numbers just like any good backup would, which is what he is, but he's a terrible starter. When the players around him are average then his numbers are similar or worse than an average rookie QB. |
Are you forgetting how depleted the talent was when Cassel first arrived here? Bowe has been his only good target until now, and he was blanked on any key downs. Our O-line was one of the worst ever his first year here. You say he has no pocket presence but the heat he took in 09 has ruined other QB's (see Todd Blackledge)
Cassel is tough and cool under pressure! The only time Cassel has shown me otherwise was the INT on the screen vs SD. That looked like frustration with the play calling and nothing to do with pressure. He didn't try to sell the play at all. It was like he said "Are you F'n kidding me a screen pass for the Umpteen time after 0 success all game, on a key down, while we are driving the ball towards the game winning score. F-U" It looked like he mentally headed to the locker room right then. That's my only knock on Cassels toughness/coolness. I'm not trying to sell Cassel as the coolest cat in the pocket around, but in that department he is top10 IMHO.
| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: |
So, I really don't know why people always compare Smith and Cassel...Smith actually has the tools to be pretty good and his breakout year didn't come because of great receivers or one of the top running games. |
Davis, Crabtree, Plus whole bunch of other capable WR. That's better WR's then Cassel has had in KC until now. SF was #8 in rushing yards (not quite a top running game, but not too shabby either) I noticed how you don't give SF's Def any credit for Smiths improved play last year.  That's cool, just don't give all credit to our RB, WR, or Def when Cassel puts up another solid season.
Debating with you is like Bill O'Reilly when he said "Sun comes up, sun goes down; Tides come in, tides go out. We can't explain them, so there must be a God" to an atheist on a Science -vs- Religion debate. I face-palmed for Bill when I heard this. He was arguing a legit argument (as are you about Cassel), but he used super dumb examples. There are plenty of holes in science for Theists to place God (and there always will be) But science figured out the reasons for sunsets and tides ~2200 years ago.
*edited to fix quotes |
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brawl.kc
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 2042
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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I think both sides of the argument are going further for the sake of their point as opposed to looking at the brass tacks. When you look at the situation, at best Matt Cassel is a guy who is going to consciously not try to make any mistakes. That is his best and worst quality as a QB. His main focus is to not mess up, as opposed to excelling. He takes the idea of being a conservative QB to the extreme. When star QB's are going out there and "playing ball", Seven seems focused, anxious, and always mindful of making errors. I've seen him look at a wide-open receiver and (this part is completely subjective to my interpretation) look like he WANTS to pull the trigger, but for some reason doesn't. That's also how people get hurt when you play the game to not lose. You're tentative, you're nervous, you think too darn much. You aren't playing the game, reading and reacting. That, to me, as somebody who could never even be a backup QB, has to say.
This MVP talk on one side and this "not good enough to sit the bench" idea on the other is lunacy. If Matt Cassel is your backup QB, you're probably in good shape. Also, from all reports the dude is a mench and a stand-up guy. I'm off of the Cassel hating bandwagon, because at this point it just is what it is. Accept it and move on. Can we do better? Yes. With the guys on our roster? Not this year. The point becomes moot. There is nobody there to take his job and do better than what he does, so why complain about somebody who most of the time will give you NFL average? If you want to complain, then fine, but give us a solution as well.
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Last edited by brawl.kc on Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3491
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Piquel"] | Piquel wrote: |
It doesn't make a good comparison. At least not a fair one. I did it to point out how unfair your comparison was.
But every category is better except yds per carry! That is why you didn't use stats from 08 and 10. Cassel has had better talent around him than McCoy, FACT! FIFY
Are you forgetting how depleted the talent was when Cassel first arrived here? Bowe has been his only good target until now, and he was blanked on any key downs. Our O-line was one of the worst ever his first year here. You say he has no pocket presence but the heat he took in 09 has ruined other QB's (see Todd Blackledge)
Cassel is tough and cool under pressure! The only time Cassel has shown me otherwise was the INT on the screen vs SD. That looked like frustration with the play calling and nothing to do with pressure. He didn't try to sell the play at all. It was like he said "Are you F'n kidding me a screen pass for the Umpteen time after 0 success all game, on a key down, while we are driving the ball towards the game winning score. F-U" It looked like he mentally headed to the locker room right then. That's my only knock on Cassels toughness/coolness. I'm not trying to sell Cassel as the coolest cat in the pocket around, but in that department he is top10 IMHO.
Davis, Crabtree, Plus whole bunch of other capable WR. That's better WR's then Cassel has had in KC until now. SF was #8 in rushing yards (not quite a top running game, but not too shabby either) I noticed how you don't give SF's Def any credit for Smiths improved play last year. That's cool, just don't give all credit to our RB, WR, or Def when Cassel puts up another solid season.
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LOL, you're right my comparison wasn't fair...to COLT MCCOY, but he still won.
*I haven't forgotten at all the depleted talent when Cassel got here...in fact that's why I compared those years to the CLEVELAND BROWNS and their rookie QB and not the Green Bay Packers While you're at it, how come you didn't give any details about the Cleveland Browns backs and receivers from the past two years? Without that, its a pointless rebuttal.
*Make up your mind, is Cassel cool under pressure or not?
*While the SF D being good certainly does help a QB, a defense can't help an offense as much as an offense can help a defense by staying on the field and keeping the D fresh, Offense doesn't need to be kept fresh.
*Why wouldn't I give credit to our WRs, RB, etc when Cassel puts up good stats? He's never done anything in the years those positions aren't good. |
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samsel23
Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 1622
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| brawl.kc wrote: | I think both sides of the argument are going further for the sake of their point as opposed to looking at the brass tacks. When you look at the situation, at best Matt Cassel is a guy who is going to consciously not try to make any mistakes. That is his best and worst quality as a QB. His main focus is to not mess up, as opposed to excelling. He takes the idea of being a conservative QB to the extreme. When star QB's are going out there and "playing ball", Seven seems focused, anxious, and always mindful of making errors. I've seen him look at a wide-open receiver and (this part is completely subjective to my interpretation) look like he WANTS to pull the trigger, but for some reason doesn't. That's also how people get hurt when you play the game to not lose. You're tentative, you're nervous, you think too darn much. You aren't playing the game, reading and reacting. That, to me, as somebody who could never even be a backup QB has to say.
This MVP talk on one side and this "not good enough to sit the bench" idea on the other is lunacy. If Matt Cassel is your backup QB, you're probably in good shape. Also, from all reports the dude is a mench and a stand-up guy. I'm off of the Cassel hating bandwagon, because at this point it just is what it is. Accept it and move on. Can we do better? Yes. With the guys on our roster? Not this year. The point becomes moot. There is nobody there to take his job and do better than what he does, so why complain about somebody who most of the time will give you NFL average? If you want to complain, then fine, but give us a solution as well. |
Just make a Cassel thread, put this in it.
Than Sticky and Lock it.
Great post man, really sums of everything that needs to said about Cassel and our QB situation.
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OILCHIEFS
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Posts: 1302
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| samsel23 wrote: | | brawl.kc wrote: | I think both sides of the argument are going further for the sake of their point as opposed to looking at the brass tacks. When you look at the situation, at best Matt Cassel is a guy who is going to consciously not try to make any mistakes. That is his best and worst quality as a QB. His main focus is to not mess up, as opposed to excelling. He takes the idea of being a conservative QB to the extreme. When star QB's are going out there and "playing ball", Seven seems focused, anxious, and always mindful of making errors. I've seen him look at a wide-open receiver and (this part is completely subjective to my interpretation) look like he WANTS to pull the trigger, but for some reason doesn't. That's also how people get hurt when you play the game to not lose. You're tentative, you're nervous, you think too darn much. You aren't playing the game, reading and reacting. That, to me, as somebody who could never even be a backup QB has to say.
This MVP talk on one side and this "not good enough to sit the bench" idea on the other is lunacy. If Matt Cassel is your backup QB, you're probably in good shape. Also, from all reports the dude is a mench and a stand-up guy. I'm off of the Cassel hating bandwagon, because at this point it just is what it is. Accept it and move on. Can we do better? Yes. With the guys on our roster? Not this year. The point becomes moot. There is nobody there to take his job and do better than what he does, so why complain about somebody who most of the time will give you NFL average? If you want to complain, then fine, but give us a solution as well. |
Just make a Cassel thread, put this in it.
Than Sticky and Lock it.
Great post man, really sums of everything that needs to said about Cassel and our QB situation. |
Yup. Great post. I like Cassel a little more then you but still think we should replace him if we want to win a superbowl |
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17482
Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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How can you screw up the quote block every single time you quote a post? Seriously, bro if you need me to help you out, just come over tomorrow evening.
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3491
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone know of any plans or indications to play Stanzi & Quinn with the #1's at all? Any NFL team, not just the Chiefs, that doesn't have a clear cut QB that they believe in should obviously have a battle for the job if it's even remotely close and/or if their are promising guys behind the incumbent. Just off the top of my head I know Ariz and Sea are having a competition, despite one guy signing a big contract.
I was just thinking that after the struggles of Cassel in his tenure here, Quinn being a 1st round pick, Stanzi being their own pick that they believe in, and with the rest of the team being very strong, they owe it to the fans and other players to make sure they get the best QB out on the field. Does anyone else feel the same way or are you content with just giving Cassel the job until he falters?
As much as I don't believe in Cassel, it's hard to see him playing bad enough to lose his job. I wouldn't think a few bad games against tough D's would get him pulled...it would likely have to be atleast a few against average or worse D's. The thing is, I think he has a chance to not embarass himself against the stout D's, this team is loaded and he knows how to play it safe. Of course we're gonna need more than that to advance in the playoffs. That's where we're gonna need Stanzi with 8-16 games under his belt. I mean if someone like Pioli (unlikely), Crennel or a player doesn't step up and say something or make a change, we are in grave danger of Cassel being our QB through the prime of our best players careers....because he's very likely going to have a high QB rating and a good W/L record.
The fact that Pioli has had no competition for Cassel his entire tenure and then proclaims in the offseason they are serious about giving him competition, but miss with Manning, Orton, RG3, etc..so they settle for Quinn and talk about their belief in Stanzi...does that somehow make it ok to give Cassel another free pass in training camp? It's BS. I'll tell you right now, if Pioli thinks Stanzi (a pro style college QB) can't give Cassel a strong run for his money this year, then he's flat out lying when he says he believes in him....in fact if he believes in him, he would WANT Stanzi to win the job this year, so the future can start now. IMO if Stanzi isn't already as good or better than Cassel in his 2nd year, then there is no hope for him.
I'm curious to know everyone's thots on these issues...
Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KC_Guy
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 5903
Location: Brussels, Belgium
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | Does anyone know of any plans or indications to play Stanzi & Quinn with the #1's at all? Any NFL team, not just the Chiefs, that doesn't have a clear cut QB that they believe in ...
... Stanzi being their own pick that they believe in ... |
You need to ask the Chiefs' brass. I'd be surprised if the Chiefs did something like that.
However, you obviously assume the Chiefs' brass does not believe in Cassel but in Stanzi. That is wrong. It's absolutely obvious that they see Cassel as their clear cut #1 QB - whether you like it or not. And I have yet to see anyone but you who has seen anything in Stanzi (or Quinn) that would challenge Cassel right now.
So I have no clue why you assume that Stanzi might be a better QB for the playoffs. |
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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I meant believe that their CURRENT starter is also the FUTURE starter...sorry.
Teams that truly believe in their starter don't consider using a high draft pick on a QB or signing Kyle Orton to compete with him...the kind of belief i'm talking about means you are not looking for competition or an upgrade unless someone like Manning becomes available...and that is definitely not the case with the Chiefs.
Every team believes in their QB to a certain extent or atleast has to say they do...you are being ridiculous...it's like your arguing just to argue. You can't really believe they have that kind of faith in Matt Cassel after his past performance and everything they did/said in the offseason.
It may be hard to believe fans don't believe Stanzi can challenge Cassel, but that don't matter to me. It's sure gonna be sweet if he finally does get a real chance.
Sticking with Cassel means you have to depend on keeping most of your weapons healthy and also being able to run the ball well every game...how anyone can be content with giving the job to a guy like that when there are two other talented guys on the roster is beyond my comprehension.
If he's clearly the best, then he'll win the job the right way and i'll be fine with that...but it's time he truly earned it.
Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:31 am; edited 2 times in total |
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| What do you guys think about Andrew Luck's debut against the Rams? |
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bigschmadt00
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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Location: Seeing what condition my condition is in
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | What do you guys think about Andrew Luck's debut against the Rams? |
Very Peyton-esque. 
And Tannehill looked like he might be ready to play a lot sooner then even I thought. With Garrard injured IIRC, he's seizing the opportunity.
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | | nicfre2011 wrote: | | What do you guys think about Andrew Luck's debut against the Rams? |
Very Peyton-esque.
And Tannehill looked like he might be ready to play a lot sooner then even I thought. With Garrard injured IIRC, he's seizing the opportunity. |
Alot of people have been impressed with the relative composure players like Luck, Griffin III, and Tannehill have displayed so far. Obviously most of the defenses are more than likely vanilla right now and nobody is showing their special surprises they have been working on in camp, but for as close to live bullets as possible, these young quarterbacks have showed some poise out of the gate so far. Of course one preseason game a season does not make, but it is nice to see as opposed to a QB folding in the pocket or just slinging the ball in the air for grabs. |
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
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Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | | nicfre2011 wrote: | | What do you guys think about Andrew Luck's debut against the Rams? |
Very Peyton-esque.
And Tannehill looked like he might be ready to play a lot sooner then even I thought. With Garrard injured IIRC, he's seizing the opportunity. |
I only saw one play from Luck but he was already hitting his #2 read for a wide open TD in his first pre-season game. His #1 read was left, his #2 read was a corner route to the right.
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OILCHIEFS
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | What do you guys think about Andrew Luck's debut against the Rams? |
Just beautiful. I didnt watch the game but saw the highlights and came away impressed/jealous. |
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jimmydee
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I find it intriguing that everybody, TV idiots included, were raving over his first pass being a TD for 67 yards. I couldn't WAIT to see it on replay later. It was made to sound as though he thew a deep fade and dropped it in just over the out reached hands of a defender. Hell, it was a 2 yard second thought flip and a nice 65 yard run after the "basically 2 yard forward dump" to a receiver.
Now, for reality. He did have a nice game, and SEEMS to be on his way to a nice career.
I love it....this site is basically on life support for five months, then WAM!!! pre-season and we're back at it. "Ain't" football season great. Go Chiefs!!!! Bring me a cold beer.
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