Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Cundiff vs Tucker
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baltimore Ravens
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Who do you think will be the 2012 kicker?
Billy Cundiff
15%
 15%  [ 4 ]
Justin Tucker
84%
 84%  [ 22 ]
Total Votes : 26

Author Message
raven5255


Moderator

Most Valuable Poster (6th Ballot)

Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 13634
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Cundiff vs Tucker Reply with quote

A couple articles I read today that I found interesting in regards to the battle between Billy Cundiff and Justin Tucker:

http://ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/Will-Cundiffs-contract-save-or-cost-him-his-job

Quote:
If Tucker does beat out Cundiff (and remember that in 2010, the Ravens ended up keeping Cundiff after he outperformed the presumed favorite, Shayne Graham, even though Graham was signed to be the PK), the Ravens will be able to create $1.81M in Salary Cap space for this year.

Quote:

The last factor in favor of keeping Tucker over Cundiff, and this is a big one, is that, despite some possible Cap pain in 2013 from the dead money carry-over, Tucker will be far cheaper over the next 4 years than Cundiff. Cundiff is due $10.2M in base salary over the next 4 years and will count $12.6M against the Cap over those years.


http://ravens24x7.com/columns/Ravens-Eye-View/CSI-Ravens-Evidence-suggests-its-Tucker-over-Cundiff

Quote:
Cundiff is last in FG%, and is 19th when only looking at attempts under 50 yards. And if you remove his 2010, calling it an anomaly, hes the only kicker lower than 75% for his career, and lower than 80% from inside the fifty.




And this from today:

Quote:
Jason Butt ‏@JasonButtCBS

Cundiff went 2/4 on FGs. Missed from 29 and 34. Made from 39 and 47. Tucker went 5/5, long of 47.



Seems that Tucker is out-kicking Cundiff on an almost daily basis. And financially it would be more beneficial to unload Cundiff's contract even though he's only going into the 2nd year of the deal. So far Tucker has done everything he needs to do yet a lot of people in the media still consider it Cundiff's job to lose. He has the veteran status working in his favor but he's hardly been a model of consistency, and going strictly off camp performance, Tucker seems to have the edge.

I know this has been a frequent topic of discussion, but how do you all feel about the kicking competition now that we're almost half way through camp?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dark ops


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 98
Location: Los Angeles , CA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Job should be given to Tucker. I can understand the point of being "favored" by experience but in the end it is about performance and a bigger and better leg. I would hate if we would go into the season with a kicker who we can't count on to make a kick 35 to 45 out...
_________________
BALL SO HARD UNIVERSITY!!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7716
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the chance that the team picks Tucker over Cundiff is more likely now with his performance in camp. From the updates I've seen this has been the first day one kicker has had a substantially better day than the other so I don't think that Tucker has been out-kicking him on a daily basis. With two guys that are performing on a comparable level it only makes sense to take the one that comes cheaper, especially with the lackluster history Cundiff has (his overall career, not the missed kick in the playoffs).

The stats in that article aren't good for Cundiff at all but they're not really surprising. I still believe the Ravens were screwed over when the league changed the kickoff rule, in my opinion Cundiff's kickoff ability was one of the biggest reasons they signed him to that deal and now it's pretty much negated. He wasn't as consistent on kickoffs last season either though so it might have been a fluke.

I don't think the team would save that much money right now if they did cut Cundiff (although maybe they would since it's after June 1st) but if I had to choose between the two I'm going with Tucker now. My biggest concern before camp started was that he was just a guy the team signed that would give them an excuse to say Cundiff did have competition but Tucker has been keeping up with him. He seems to have just as strong of a leg as Cundiff does and that's something I value a lot in a kicker.


Last edited by coordinator0 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FlaccoForever


Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 280
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Cundiff vs Tucker Reply with quote

raven5255 wrote:
A couple articles I read today that I found interesting in regards to the battle between Billy Cundiff and Justin Tucker:

http://ravens24x7.com/columns/The-Money-Clip-Baltimore-Ravens-Salary-Cap-Analysis/Will-Cundiffs-contract-save-or-cost-him-his-job

Quote:
If Tucker does beat out Cundiff (and remember that in 2010, the Ravens ended up keeping Cundiff after he outperformed the presumed favorite, Shayne Graham, even though Graham was signed to be the PK), the Ravens will be able to create $1.81M in Salary Cap space for this year.

Quote:

The last factor in favor of keeping Tucker over Cundiff, and this is a big one, is that, despite some possible Cap pain in 2013 from the dead money carry-over, Tucker will be far cheaper over the next 4 years than Cundiff. Cundiff is due $10.2M in base salary over the next 4 years and will count $12.6M against the Cap over those years.


http://ravens24x7.com/columns/Ravens-Eye-View/CSI-Ravens-Evidence-suggests-its-Tucker-over-Cundiff

Quote:
Cundiff is last in FG%, and is 19th when only looking at attempts under 50 yards. And if you remove his 2010, calling it an anomaly, he’s the only kicker lower than 75% for his career, and lower than 80% from inside the fifty.




And this from today:

Quote:
Jason Butt ‏@JasonButtCBS

Cundiff went 2/4 on FGs. Missed from 29 and 34. Made from 39 and 47. Tucker went 5/5, long of 47.



Seems that Tucker is out-kicking Cundiff on an almost daily basis. And financially it would be more beneficial to unload Cundiff's contract even though he's only going into the 2nd year of the deal. So far Tucker has done everything he needs to do yet a lot of people in the media still consider it Cundiff's job to lose. He has the veteran status working in his favor but he's hardly been a model of consistency, and going strictly off camp performance, Tucker seems to have the edge.

I know this has been a frequent topic of discussion, but how do you all feel about the kicking competition now that we're almost half way through camp?


Tucker can kick a 60 yard field goal in his sleep, it's time to move on from Billy Choke Artist just like they did with Lee Evans. We know how things are with Evans now, I don't think Cundiff is over the missed kick as much as he tries to convince us that he is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12988
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I should comment... Or else suspicion that I am in fact Justin Tucker might become prominent.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 29536
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucker is obviously beating out Cundiff. He's doing his job as a pro and I take my cap off to Justin Tucker for (what I think is) making this decision easy on the coaching staff to release Cundiff and let Tucker be the kicker of the future.

My vote obviously goes to Justin "Must Die" Tucker!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
drd23


Moderator
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 5134
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
I'm not sure I should comment... Or else suspicion that I am in fact Justin Tucker might become more prominent.

FIFY.

I don't think I've read a single instance where Cundiff has out-kicked Tucker yet, but this has to be the 2nd or 3rd time that Tucker has beaten out Cundiff for the day (even if the previous times were just making 1 extra kick).

Surely the evidence is mounting to say that Tucker should be our kicker going forward?
_________________

Stone85 & mike23md on the sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12988
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the consensus obviously. Like has been said, there is just no real argument that Cundiff has over Tucker to this point. Whereas conversely a good argument can be made for Tucker based off youth, monetary commitment, and accuracy in practice. Basically every report I read of Tucke mentions he goes perfect on the day. Dude kicks a 62 yarder and still goes perfect on the day.

I also think there's something to say about him actually in part knowing his limits as well. Tucker attempted and made a 60+ yarder on multiple occasions. Cundiff attempts a 65 yarder just to "1 up Tucker in the heat of the moment" and fails. Why not try a 63 yarder instead? That'd seem more wily veteran-like to me.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23946
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, to be fair, one of Cundiff's shorter misses (I think the 24 yarder) was a high snap that threw everything off.

That said, I'm a bit on the fence about both, but if I had to choose, I'd go with Tucker.

What scares me about Cundiff is not even so much the AFCCG kick -- but how inconsistent he was in 2011 altogether. It just looked like he was back to his old self. I simply don't trust him when he's about to make a kick anymore. Maybe it's because I'm used to Matty Ice being automatic, but I cringe whenever we send Cundiff out there now, unlike 2010.

With Tucker, it's simply a matter of Steven Hauschka nightmares from 2009. *shudder*
_________________


SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

If a police officer offered me a warning, no, I would not take it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12988
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
First, to be fair, one of Cundiff's shorter misses (I think the 24 yarder) was a high snap that threw everything off.

That said, I'm a bit on the fence about both, but if I had to choose, I'd go with Tucker.

What scares me about Cundiff is not even so much the AFCCG kick -- but how inconsistent he was in 2011 altogether. It just looked like he was back to his old self. I simply don't trust him when he's about to make a kick anymore. Maybe it's because I'm used to Matty Ice being automatic, but I cringe whenever we send Cundiff out there now, unlike 2010.

With Tucker, it's simply a matter of Steven Hauschka nightmares from 2009. *shudder*

Shocked
Wait you've trusted Cundiff at any point? Slightly kidding. But in 2010 I didn't trust him until around playoff time... Then he played like crap all past season. So I've trusted him all of MAYBE a couple weeks or so and even then I only trusted in his ability to make the easy kicks. I'd rather go in with Tucker. For some reason I can't explain, I just trust him more. I'd trust him to take a 50+ yard game winner much more than I would with Cundiff.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FlaccoForever


Joined: 12 Jul 2011
Posts: 280
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok which two people voted for Cundiff and are now in hiding? LOL Man up and make yourselves known on this board.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23946
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
First, to be fair, one of Cundiff's shorter misses (I think the 24 yarder) was a high snap that threw everything off.

That said, I'm a bit on the fence about both, but if I had to choose, I'd go with Tucker.

What scares me about Cundiff is not even so much the AFCCG kick -- but how inconsistent he was in 2011 altogether. It just looked like he was back to his old self. I simply don't trust him when he's about to make a kick anymore. Maybe it's because I'm used to Matty Ice being automatic, but I cringe whenever we send Cundiff out there now, unlike 2010.

With Tucker, it's simply a matter of Steven Hauschka nightmares from 2009. *shudder*

Shocked
Wait you've trusted Cundiff at any point? Slightly kidding. But in 2010 I didn't trust him until around playoff time... Then he played like crap all past season. So I've trusted him all of MAYBE a couple weeks or so and even then I only trusted in his ability to make the easy kicks. I'd rather go in with Tucker. For some reason I can't explain, I just trust him more. I'd trust him to take a 50+ yard game winner much more than I would with Cundiff.


I trusted him from inside the 40 pretty well. Anything further and I started getting worried.
_________________


SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

If a police officer offered me a warning, no, I would not take it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
StevenV32


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 98
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for Cundiff based solely on my gut telling me will be the guy the coaching staff decides to keep.

but by NO strectch of the imagination am i pulling for Billy because like a lot of you have stated, i just DON'T TRUST HIM WHEN HE WALKS ONTO THE FIELD.

I'm praying and hoping that I'm dead wrong and Tucker is the one they keep because he has shown in college that during the crunch time moments, he has shown he can make the game tying/game winner.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12988
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

StevenV32 wrote:
I voted for Cundiff based solely on my gut telling me will be the guy the coaching staff decides to keep.

but by NO strectch of the imagination am i pulling for Billy because like a lot of you have stated, i just DON'T TRUST HIM WHEN HE WALKS ONTO THE FIELD.

I'm praying and hoping that I'm dead wrong and Tucker is the one they keep because he has shown in college that during the crunch time moments, he has shown he can make the game tying/game winner.

First off let me say welcome to the forums StevenV32! Secondly, I keep thinking you're DCarey20.. you both have the same avatar...

Thirdly, I can definitely see the coaches holding onto Cundiff and some other team picking up Tucker and he goes on to have a fantastic rookie season with them... I mean we have the precedents in place for this with Harbaugh keeping Mattison and Cam on board due to loyalty. Being a former special teams coach, he's probably closer to Billy and his family then a normal HC might be to their PK... logic aside, the thing Cundiff has going for him is Harbaugh's stubborness and willingness to continue to believe in others to the detriment of the team.

That being said, we can only hope that Harbaugh sees the light... Cundiff cannot be trusted. Justin Tucker must NOT die!
Flaccomania wrote:
First, to be fair, one of Cundiff's shorter misses (I think the 24 yarder) was a high snap that threw everything off.

I know I read this earlier but forgot to respond to this point. I understand your argument here. But at the same time, a 24 yarder is a chip shot. The fact that Cundiff missed from such a short distance- even though there was a bad snap- is intollerable IMO (given his history). If the kick gets blocked... it's whatever, nothing Cundiff could've done given the circumstances. But for him to simply miss it because of a bad snap... is no excuse.

That miss is proof positive to me that in extreme circumstances, when things go wrong (or not as expected) Cundiff panics. What if that same high snap occurs in the playoffs or AFCCG 13' or in the Super Bowl (assuming we make it to either of these stages) for a game winner... am I to excuse Cundiff because it was a high snap?? Cundiff panicked just like he did this past AFCCG when we rushed the kick and "things didn't go as he expected"... clearly he's not someone that takes well to making adjustments.

I'm sure Matt Stover found plenty of moments where he had non-ideal snaps and he made the best of them and usually came out on top. Personally, I'm done with Cundiff. Nothing he does from this point forth matters to me.

I could care less if in the next preseason game he drills 5 kicks from 60+... because the key element he doesn't have is an element that the best kickers and best QBs possess... ice in their veins. We all know the saying "if you don't have a franchise QB, then you don't pass on one."... well perhaps it's time we applied some of that mantra to our kicker. Tucker may or may not be a franchise kicker... but we know for sure that Cundiff isn't one... it's time to move on.

If it were me I'd announce Tucker the winner of the competition after this 2nd game and use the next two games to give him all the kicks and evaluate if he can't be our starting kicker... given the pressures and comforts that "title" brings. If he were to fail we'd still have some time to consider going for a veteran that's just waiting for a call. Someone like a Shayne Graham (assuming he's still available).

Harbaugh has had OTAs, training camp, and two preseason games to determine a winner... that's plenty of time. We have to start trying to build confidence in our new kicker before the regular season starts... assuming we give the job to Tucker... and this is assuming the results of the kicking competition follows a logical conclusion... which isn't a safe bet in the slightest.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dcarey20


Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 7259
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First off let me say welcome to the forums StevenV32! Secondly, I keep thinking you're DCarey20.. you both have the same avatar...


You are not alone my friend, I have started to read a post that I thought was mine just because I saw that avatar, only to get to the end and realize that it wasn't me, lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baltimore Ravens All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group