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E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State Reply with quote

Can you guys give me the low down on Florida State quarterback E.J. Manuel? How does he stack up as an NFL prospect? Is he a legitimate developmental prospect? What do you think are his main strengths and weaknesses? Where do you think he could potentially end up when stacking up against the other draft eligible prospects at the position?

How is his pocket presence and how does he handle himself when the pocket starts to break down? Does he have the ability to continue making reads and extend the play or does he break down quickly?


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Seminolebuc


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has the speed, size, and arm strength to be a legit NFL QB.
His main strengths would be his efficency as a passer. He has a high completion percentage however he has issues when it comes to the deep ball. He often will not progress through his reads enough to the deeper routes and had issues last year spoting wide open reciever down the field. I was not happy with the way EJ played last year but i will also say he was playing with one of the worst O-lines in college football last year which lead to absolutley terrible protection not giving him the confidence needed and leading to a dismal run game.

All in all he could turn into a very good pro prospect but he just needs to prove the mental part this year.[/quote]
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seminolebuc wrote:
He has the speed, size, and arm strength to be a legit NFL QB.
His main strengths would be his efficency as a passer. He has a high completion percentage however he has issues when it comes to the deep ball. He often will not progress through his reads enough to the deeper routes and had issues last year spoting wide open reciever down the field. I was not happy with the way EJ played last year but i will also say he was playing with one of the worst O-lines in college football last year which lead to absolutley terrible protection not giving him the confidence needed and leading to a dismal run game.

All in all he could turn into a very good pro prospect but he just needs to prove the mental part this year.


Good comment. I appreciate the feedback. So at this point it seems fair to say that he is far from a finished product - it will be interesting to see how he plays this year and if he can take the next step or not. As a Chiefs fan, I am looking for options to address the quarterback position long term and what you mention about Manuel is for the most part a list of the issues that most KC fans have with Matt Cassel (especially not finding the open receivers, etc. He is known as captain check-down for a reason). Plus, he tends to completely break down in the pocket when pressured or when he perceives pressure. So a major quality I look for in a prospect is pocket presence/awareness and whether they can slide or move in the pocket to extend the play while still looking downfield.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you guys think about Manuel's throwing motion? Just by appearances it seems like he has essentially a sidearm throw with a long windup similar to Vince Young. Both seem to hold the ball out away from their body during their passing motion. Manuel's throwing motion may not be as extreme.










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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.
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c0insnap


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, Young's throwing motion was never his problem.

I like Manuel... He throws a very catchable football. He just has these moments where he seems unsure and looks dumb in the pocket. But when he's on, he flashes 1st-2nd round potential.
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mikeyfarley


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is without question one of the most physically talented QBs in the nation. The problem is he just isn't that good of a QB.

He always throws the ball to where the WR already is, not to where he is going, and it keeps a lot of 20 yard gains from easily being a 40+ yard gain. He can't hit guys is stride for whatever reason. Sometimes he lobs passes up too much and it takes to long to get to the wr even though he has a strong arm and could get it there quicker. He doesn't read defenses well, doesn't seem to go through his progressions most of the time, and he seems set on not becoming that much better at passing because his athleticism can usually always get him out of bad situations.

Last year FSU fans were hoping he would turn the corner and be a good passer (and live up to his potential), but he hasn't put it together yet.

If he has gotten much better as a pocket passer this offseason he could easily be a Heismann favorite and be a 1st round draft pick, but I wouldn't say that's likely.

He is already a very good project at QB for the NFL, around a 6th or 7th rounder. If he makes improvements the sky is the limit. Even if he does improve, I'd rather my favorite team pass on him. If it takes him his 4th year in college to be a top QB how long would it take for him to do well at the next level?
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.


Me either. Rather draft BJ Daniels than EJ Manuel...
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Django


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has everything, but an IT factor. Its like something is missing.
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Supersuavesky


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.


Me either. Rather draft BJ Daniels than EJ Manuel...
Which is saying something because Daniels is horrible.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supersuavesky wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.


Me either. Rather draft BJ Daniels than EJ Manuel...
Which is saying something because Daniels is horrible.


Pretty much. I don't think either can handle playing QB at the next level, but Daniels is the better runner. Although like George Selvie, I still think there is some potential in Daniels after what I saw at first glance. Not as a true QB but maybe a Brad Smith type...
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

c0insnap wrote:
FWIW, Young's throwing motion was never his problem.

I like Manuel... He throws a very catchable football. He just has these moments where he seems unsure and looks dumb in the pocket. But when he's on, he flashes 1st-2nd round potential.


I wasn't necessarily saying it was or wasn't a factor in his inability to have success as an NFL quarterback. I seem to remember people talking about his throwing motion coming out of Texas, but it always seemed his athletic ability overshadowed any technique issues.
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epicMustache


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.


Me either. Rather draft BJ Daniels than EJ Manuel...


Uh... no.

Saying that E.J. can't read a defense, or hit a receiver in stride, is crazy. He can... he just barely ever does it. Big difference in being incapable and being inconsistent.

If someone can get his game to flow as more of a constant, he can take the league by storm. If they can't, he'll be out of it in 3 years.

The most accurate comment is that he just doesn't have that IT factor - as of right now, he absolutely doesn't. Not to say he can't develop it this year, and I'm praying he does, but he's shown he can do everything required at an NFL level. Even if only a few times a season.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

epicMustache wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.


Me either. Rather draft BJ Daniels than EJ Manuel...


Uh... no.

Saying that E.J. can't read a defense, or hit a receiver in stride, is crazy. He can... he just barely ever does it. Big difference in being incapable and being inconsistent.

If someone can get his game to flow as more of a constant, he can take the league by storm. If they can't, he'll be out of it in 3 years.

The most accurate comment is that he just doesn't have that IT factor - as of right now, he absolutely doesn't. Not to say he can't develop it this year, and I'm praying he does, but he's shown he can do everything required at an NFL level. Even if only a few times a season.


It has nothing to do with the proverbial it factor. When I've watched Manuel, he's never seemed good at reading defenses, going through his progressions, anticipating routes, anticipating the blitz or consistently getting rid of the ball on time. Pocket presence also didn't seem good.

Basically, he was just an athlete playing QB to me. Progression is possible but in the games I watched, he just didn't appear to have the mental talent to be a NFL caliber passer.

To compound on it, as someone mentioned, he's not good at throwing his WRs open.

I just don't like him as a prospect right now. I'll give him another shot this year to see where he's at but to me, apart from having a stronger arm, he's no better a passer than Darron Thomas was.
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epicMustache


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
epicMustache wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
When I've watched him play, I've never come away thinking that he's a NFL caliber QB.


Me either. Rather draft BJ Daniels than EJ Manuel...


Uh... no.

Saying that E.J. can't read a defense, or hit a receiver in stride, is crazy. He can... he just barely ever does it. Big difference in being incapable and being inconsistent.

If someone can get his game to flow as more of a constant, he can take the league by storm. If they can't, he'll be out of it in 3 years.

The most accurate comment is that he just doesn't have that IT factor - as of right now, he absolutely doesn't. Not to say he can't develop it this year, and I'm praying he does, but he's shown he can do everything required at an NFL level. Even if only a few times a season.


It has nothing to do with the proverbial it factor. When I've watched Manuel, he's never seemed good at reading defenses, going through his progressions, anticipating routes, anticipating the blitz or consistently getting rid of the ball on time. Pocket presence also didn't seem good.

Basically, he was just an athlete playing QB to me. Progression is possible but in the games I watched, he just didn't appear to have the mental talent to be a NFL caliber passer.

To compound on it, as someone mentioned, he's not good at throwing his WRs open.

I just don't like him as a prospect right now. I'll give him another shot this year to see where he's at but to me, apart from having a stronger arm, he's no better a passer than Darron Thomas was.


As of right now, he is little more than an athlete playing QB. No denying that. And you're right in saying that his progression through reads are poor, that he gets happy feet a little too often, and that he can't anticipate routes well. He doesn't really hit receivers in stride all that often, either.

The part of my post after the B.J. Daniels thing was more directed at the people saying "he can't" so definitively, instead of saying something to the effective of "he can, but he hasn't for the great majority of his snaps". He's shown all these things, just not very often, and we all know consistency is an incredibly important factor when playing quarterback in the NFL.

He's also playing behind one of the most disappointing lines in recent FSU memory, one that had to be in one of the bottom tiers in the nation. Who knows what'll happen from here on out... it's possible that he rectifies the glaring holes in his game (namely consistency), but even as an FSU fan/student I don't see it happening. Just wanted to come in here and say that it can.
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