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Pats were showing their hands against Cards according to DC
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Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Pats were showing their hands against Cards according to DC Reply with quote

Quote:
Arizona defensive coordinator Ray Horton shared what he thought was a big difference in the game during Doug and Wolf's show on Arizona Sports 620 Tuesday.

"We knew that whenever [Aaron] Hernandez was in tight, it was going to be a run, so we had a run check. But when he got hurt, it screwed that up because they went to three wide receivers. What they did, and we figured out real quick was, whenever Tom Brady was under the center, they were going to run the ball and whenever he was in the shotgun, they were going to pass the ball," Horton said. "We told our players 'hey, make the run check if Tom Brady's under the center. If he's in the gun, go to the pass check.'
Ray Horton, Arizona Cardinals Defensive Coordinator


"They handled it beautifully, and so we had dual calls that basically what we were telling them is we know when they're going to run and pass, so our players put us in the best position to win the game and they did a flawless job of managing the game of getting inside New England's head."


http://arizonasports.com/40/1576243/Was-Tom-Brady-tipping-New-Englands-plays

"According to the NFL Game Summary, the Patriots ran 47 plays out of the shotgun formation. Of those 47, 39 were passes, so Horton wasn't exactly 100% on, but there was certainly a tendency for New England to throw out of that formation."

^ To add to that, if the other 8 plays were draws, our draws are famously ineffective so it doesn't matter if the defense is prepared or not.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a shame he has to make this stuff up rather than giving his guys credit for executing well.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it too soon to talk about firing Josh McDaniels?
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The comments by Horton, who need not boast about the fine work of his defense on Sunday, don't match with what unfolded.

Brady was in the shotgun 39 times on Sunday (including penalties aand two-point conversion). The Patriots ran it 11 times, and threw 28 times on those snaps.

Meanwhile, Brady was under center 43 times in the game (including penalties), and the Patriots ran it just 17 times on those plays. So they actually passed the ball more when Brady was under center than ran it.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4730297/looking-closer-at-brady-tipping-plays
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Is it too soon to talk about firing Josh McDaniels?


There is no time that is too soon when it comes to firing McD...
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mattyl13


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either this guy was giving a fake answer or Arizona is in serious trouble, but I think we already knew that.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Is it too soon to talk about firing Josh McDaniels?


I'll give him one more chance against the Ravens....if he decides to act like we have the Arion Foster in the backfield with a solid O-Line, I'm totally writing a letter to BB demanding his immediate removal as OC....I'm sure he'll listen! Laughing
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
Quote:
The comments by Horton, who need not boast about the fine work of his defense on Sunday, don't match with what unfolded.

Brady was in the shotgun 39 times on Sunday (including penalties aand two-point conversion). The Patriots ran it 11 times, and threw 28 times on those snaps.

Meanwhile, Brady was under center 43 times in the game (including penalties), and the Patriots ran it just 17 times on those plays. So they actually passed the ball more when Brady was under center than ran it.


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4730297/looking-closer-at-brady-tipping-plays


Stop raining on his parade!!! It's not every day his team plays great and gets to beat an injured and horribly coached/executed Patriots team Laughing

But seriously...the Cards played great, they deserved the win.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
But seriously...the Cards played great, they deserved the win.


I really, really don't get it.

Edit:
I mean we played just as good if not better but suffered a tip ball INT that gave them the ball inside the 20, a blocked punt that gave them the ball inside the 5 and a missed 42 yard FG... in addition our defense played better than their defense and our offense played better than their offense... how do we not deserve to win the game [over them]?
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
But seriously...the Cards played great, they deserved the win.


I really, really don't get it.

Edit:
I mean we played just as good if not better but suffered a tip ball INT that gave them the ball inside the 20, a blocked punt that gave them the ball inside the 5 and a missed 42 yard FG... in addition our defense played better than their defense and our offense played better than their offense... how do we not deserve to win the game [over them]?


While we did suffer a tip ball interception at the beginning of the game, that was evened out by the last minute fumble (something I feel is much less likely to happen).

The blocked punt wasn't a fluke, the defensive line and special teams of the cardinals simply outplayed our O-Line and special teams line and the blocked punt was something that didn't surprise me at all really.

Our offense, while definitely crippled by the loss of hernandez, should have been much more productive, and I blame that on McDaniels mostly, but still, he's a part of the team.

The cardinals should never have been able to keep up with us on the offensive side yet they did. Kolb played a good game and the back up running back had a fantastic game.

I simply looked at this game as the patriots having just an all around terrible day (except for the pass rush in the first half), and the cardinals stepping it up and showing they have been underrated.

If the tables were turned, and the cardinals caused the fumble and made the fg to win it...are you really gonna sit here and say you wouldn't be complaining just like the rest of us on how it was a fluke win and the pats shouldn't have lost?
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
Our offense, while definitely crippled by the loss of hernandez, should have been much more productive, and I blame that on McDaniels mostly, but still, he's a part of the team.


That's just silly because you're basing stuff on "should of", so because our offense is suppose to score 30+ points a game in our minds as fans and they didn't it means we played horribly? the Pats had nearly 400 yards of offense [387 to be exact] and the Cardinals had under 250 [245 to be exact], we were way more productive than them on both offense [25 first downs compare to 16] and defense and the big difference here is simply "expectations".

Aaron Hernandez was a huge part of the gameplan and was lost 3 plays into the game and we still outperformed them.

Pats#1 wrote:
The cardinals should never have been able to keep up with us on the offensive side yet they did. Kolb played a good game and the back up running back had a fantastic game.


What? Kolb completed just 15 of 27 passes [55.6 %] for only 140 yards [poor 5.2 average per attempt] that's a bad game... and "fantastic" game by the back-up RB? Williams? he ran 10 times for 13 yards 1.3 average and Wells the starter had 3.1 average aswell.

Bottom line is just because you thought the Pats are suppose to put 30+ points and they didn't you feel like the Cards outplayed us, but it shouldn't be like that, most NFL games are close or very close.

I don't feel the Cards "deserved" to win over us at all.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong, am i saying we played great? not at all... we didn't even play good [on offense at least] but what i am saying is that they played worse than us overall.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
Our offense, while definitely crippled by the loss of hernandez, should have been much more productive, and I blame that on McDaniels mostly, but still, he's a part of the team.


That's just silly because you're basing stuff on "should of", so because our offense is suppose to score 30+ points a game in our minds as fans and they didn't it means we played horribly? the Pats had nearly 400 yards of offense [387 to be exact] and the Cardinals had under 250 [245 to be exact], we were way more productive than them on offense and defense and the big difference here is simply "expectations".

Aaron Hernandez was a huge part of the gameplan and was lost 3 plays into the game and we still outperformed them.

Pats#1 wrote:
The cardinals should never have been able to keep up with us on the offensive side yet they did. Kolb played a good game and the back up running back had a fantastic game.


What? Kolb completed just 15 of 27 passes [55.6 %] for only 140 yards [poor 5.2 average per attempt] that's a bad game... and "fantastic" game by the back-up RB? Williams? he ran 10 times for 13 yards 1.3 average and Wells the starter had 3.1 average aswell.

Bottom line is just because you thought the Pats are suppose to put 30+ points and they didn't you feel like the Cards outplayed us, but it shouldn't be like that, most NFL games are close or very close.

I don't feel the Cards "deserved" to win over us at all.

Edit:
Don't get me wrong, am i saying we played great? not at all... we didn't even play good [on offense at least] but what i am saying is that they played worse than us overall.


Compared to Brady, yes, Kolb didn't play good, but to Kolb's standards, he did fine. He made the plays he needed to make to get the game in the cards favor.

My bad about the running back, I guess I meant to say the running game in general. I watched most of the game at the airport, so might have missed a couple things, but it seemed the the Cards were running the ball pretty well when needed in the second half down the stretch.

I didn't expect the Patriots to put up 30+ points at all in this game, because I knew the cards defense was underrated and the team as a whole pretty good. But I did expect them to win, and to win comfortably, because that's what they should have done since every one of us considered this game to be a fairly certain win.

yes, hernandez got hurt, but BB is known for making great mid game adjustments, and we just couldn't get over the loss, and it was disappointing.

The play calling down the stretch was wrong as well in my opinion. I feel like the pats were walking down the field on the final td drive, and that they should have continued to do it after they recovered the fumble. I know Gostkowski should have made the kick, but why not try and make sure its as easy a kick as possible. I don't remember the exact yardage of the kick, but why not make a simple chip shot, instead of around 40 yards.

I just feel like they could have shown a bit of 2007 with that oppurtunity, the take no prisoners, we're gonna win this thing and show our dominance, type of attitude. And instead they just did a couple QB sneaks (not even) might as well call them kneel down, and then spiked it.

Idk, I just think it was a poor showing by the pats, because I've seen what they are capable of, we all have, and we all know that they are much better than they showed on sunday.
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
Compared to Brady, yes, Kolb didn't play good, but to Kolb's standards, he did fine. He made the plays he needed to make to get the game in the cards favor.


Again, that's what I'm saying... your expectations of the two teams is different so for some reason you [and a lot of people] keep saying the Cardinals deserve the win... it's just wrong, Kolb played poorly, period. Why do people need to add something like "compared to who the Cards and Kolb are, the game they played is fine..." that's just a bunch of bull to me.

Two teams played on Sunday, one outplayed the other, the Patriots outplayed the Cardinals except for a few fluke plays and injury break [the one fumble in the end of the game doesn't counter both or one of the plays because they got the INT and block in the redzone and we got the fumble mid-field]

Pats#1 wrote:
My bad about the running back, I guess I meant to say the running game in general. I watched most of the game at the airport, so might have missed a couple things, but it seemed the the Cards were running the ball pretty well when needed in the second half down the stretch.


I don't know what you're talking about, they averaged 3.2 a rush in the game and that includes a 17 yard carry by CB Peterson in the first drive that without it the whole average would of looked even worse.

Pats#1 wrote:
The play calling down the stretch was wrong as well in my opinion. I feel like the pats were walking down the field on the final td drive, and that they should have continued to do it after they recovered the fumble. I know Gostkowski should have made the kick, but why not try and make sure its as easy a kick as possible. I don't remember the exact yardage of the kick, but why not make a simple chip shot, instead of around 40 yards.


If you want to talk about a bad coaching decision [if it even was on the Pats side, I'm not saying i agree with that] than talk about the Cardinals coaching staff... on 3rd and 13 with the Pats without timeouts and the clock running out they chose to run with Williams in a no win situation over taking a knee.

Clearly, a bad call as he fumbled, Williams had no chance to convert 3rd and 13 after showing lack of production all game long against a defense that obviously was gonna focus on the run in that situation.

Pats#1 wrote:
Idk, I just think it was a poor showing by the pats, because I've seen what they are capable of, we all have, and we all know that they are much better than they showed on sunday.


That is very much my point... because people expect so much from the Patriots they say that just because the Patriots didn't meet exceptions than the Cardinals must of played out of their mind and deserved the win, it's not true.
Yes, the Patriots [on offense] didn't play very good, or even good at all, but they still outplayed the Cardinals big time on both sides of the ball, to say the Cardinals deserved to win that game is just wrong to say in my opinion.
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A) Never seen Billy getting into a debate before. Usually it's MCC or Tmiz Laughing

B) Who is in the "fire Josh McDaniels" camp? Just wondering.
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Troy Brown


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaZX6R wrote:
A) Never seen Billy getting into a debate before. Usually it's MCC or Tmiz Laughing

B) Who is in the "fire Josh McDaniels" camp? Just wondering.


I was in the "Please don't hire McDaniels" camp
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