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Alex Smith: Star Quarterback
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Kikuchiyo


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 2120
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
Poster4613 wrote:
It's only two games...but Alex is #2 in QBR and #2 in td's. The only person ahead of him is Matt Ryan who played the Chiefs who are averaging 80 points given up a game (ish) and the Broncos who had 4 turnovers. It has only been two games, but has Alex been the best QB during this stretch? Shocked


To be fair, we've gone against the Packers, who gave up the most pass yards ever last year, and the Lions, whos pass defense is almost equally as bad and they were missing starters in their secondary. Im excited about Alex's play so far as well, but if you're gonna knock Ryan for playing against bad defenses its only fair to look back at the defenses we've faced as well.


While I agree with your premise, the Packers defense has steppIed it up quite a bit from last year.

Packers defense so far this year:

1st in sacks
2nd in passing
5th in total yards
6th in interceptions
8th in scoring
27th in rushing

49ers defense so far this year:

6th in rushing
9th in scoring
11th in total yards
13th in sacks
13th in interceptions
19th in passing


Granted, this is after week 2, but on paper, their defense is better than ours by a long shot so far. Heck, even the Lions defense is doing better so far. Obviously, once we start playing teams that weren't top 5 offenses last year, our numbers will improve, but let's not act like we've played soft defenses.


Its been 2 games man. The Packers biggest additions to their defense are a couple of rookies who were pretty much invisible when we played them. In their second game thsy faced the interception machine Jay Cutler and the human turnstyle Jamarcus Webb. Its not that surprising they're near tops in the league in Sacks and Picks.
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John232


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Packers also played us (not exactly a high flying offense) and the Bears, who probably had one of the single worst offensive displays in the last ten years. While we played two very high powered offenses.

Remember guys, the defensive stat that means more than anything else is points given up.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poster4613 wrote:
It's only two games...but Alex is #2 in QBR and #2 in td's. The only person ahead of him is Matt Ryan who played the Chiefs who are averaging 80 points given up a game (ish) and the Broncos who had 4 turnovers. It has only been two games, but has Alex been the best QB during this stretch? Shocked


Not factoring the defenses we've faced or his better receiving weapons, Ryan has out performed Alex thus far. He has been tearing up his opposition. It's nothing Alex should be ashamed about, he's having a tremendous year as well.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikuchiyo wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
Poster4613 wrote:
It's only two games...but Alex is #2 in QBR and #2 in td's. The only person ahead of him is Matt Ryan who played the Chiefs who are averaging 80 points given up a game (ish) and the Broncos who had 4 turnovers. It has only been two games, but has Alex been the best QB during this stretch? Shocked


To be fair, we've gone against the Packers, who gave up the most pass yards ever last year, and the Lions, whos pass defense is almost equally as bad and they were missing starters in their secondary. Im excited about Alex's play so far as well, but if you're gonna knock Ryan for playing against bad defenses its only fair to look back at the defenses we've faced as well.


While I agree with your premise, the Packers defense has steppIed it up quite a bit from last year.

Packers defense so far this year:

1st in sacks
2nd in passing
5th in total yards
6th in interceptions
8th in scoring
27th in rushing

49ers defense so far this year:

6th in rushing
9th in scoring
11th in total yards
13th in sacks
13th in interceptions
19th in passing


Granted, this is after week 2, but on paper, their defense is better than ours by a long shot so far. Heck, even the Lions defense is doing better so far. Obviously, once we start playing teams that weren't top 5 offenses last year, our numbers will improve, but let's not act like we've played soft defenses.


Its been 2 games man. The Packers biggest additions to their defense are a couple of rookies who were pretty much invisible when we played them. In their second game thsy faced the interception machine Jay Cutler and the human turnstyle Jamarcus Webb. Its not that surprising they're near tops in the league in Sacks and Picks.


To the bolded, I already said that.

Lordy. I give up. A horrible defense does not sit at 8th or better in 5 of 6 major categories, even after only two games. It just doesn't happen. Not saying they're the best in the league, but let's stop acting like they're the bottom feeders of the NFL. They've made huge strides since last year. 2011 does not equal 2012.
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Kikuchiyo


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
Ataal wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
Poster4613 wrote:
It's only two games...but Alex is #2 in QBR and #2 in td's. The only person ahead of him is Matt Ryan who played the Chiefs who are averaging 80 points given up a game (ish) and the Broncos who had 4 turnovers. It has only been two games, but has Alex been the best QB during this stretch? Shocked


To be fair, we've gone against the Packers, who gave up the most pass yards ever last year, and the Lions, whos pass defense is almost equally as bad and they were missing starters in their secondary. Im excited about Alex's play so far as well, but if you're gonna knock Ryan for playing against bad defenses its only fair to look back at the defenses we've faced as well.


While I agree with your premise, the Packers defense has steppIed it up quite a bit from last year.

Packers defense so far this year:

1st in sacks
2nd in passing
5th in total yards
6th in interceptions
8th in scoring
27th in rushing

49ers defense so far this year:

6th in rushing
9th in scoring
11th in total yards
13th in sacks
13th in interceptions
19th in passing


Granted, this is after week 2, but on paper, their defense is better than ours by a long shot so far. Heck, even the Lions defense is doing better so far. Obviously, once we start playing teams that weren't top 5 offenses last year, our numbers will improve, but let's not act like we've played soft defenses.


Its been 2 games man. The Packers biggest additions to their defense are a couple of rookies who were pretty much invisible when we played them. In their second game thsy faced the interception machine Jay Cutler and the human turnstyle Jamarcus Webb. Its not that surprising they're near tops in the league in Sacks and Picks.


To the bolded, I already said that.

Lordy. I give up. A horrible defense does not sit at 8th or better in 5 of 6 major categories, even after only two games. It just doesn't happen. Not saying they're the best in the league, but let's stop acting like they're the bottom feeders of the NFL. They've made huge strides since last year. 2011 does not equal 2012.


And I never said they were the worst defense in the league (in fact if you read my other post, I said they weren't as bad as their record breaking performance last year would suggest). But really, what strides have they made? Theyre never getting Nick Collins back, Woodson's only getting older (although the move to safety might give him an extra year or so of effectiveness), Sam Shields has regressed hard since 2010, so has BJ Raji, and Tramon's still not 100%. The only guy who has seemed to turn it back around is CM3. The rookies they drafted still aren't ready to be big time contributors (although Perry is already an upgrade over Walden, and AD still erased him in week 1). Are we really supposed to judge their defense as massively improved after facing a conservative passing offense and a very inconsistent Bears offense?
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikuchiyo wrote:
Poster4613 wrote:
It's only two games...but Alex is #2 in QBR and #2 in td's. The only person ahead of him is Matt Ryan who played the Chiefs who are averaging 80 points given up a game (ish) and the Broncos who had 4 turnovers. It has only been two games, but has Alex been the best QB during this stretch? Shocked


To be fair, we've gone against the Packers, who gave up the most pass yards ever last year, and the Lions, whos pass defense is almost equally as bad and they were missing starters in their secondary. Im excited about Alex's play so far as well, but if you're gonna knock Ryan for playing against bad defenses its only fair to look back at the defenses we've faced as well.


Well also to be fair his receivers have had 10 drops in 2 games. Sure every team has some drops, but 10 in 2 games is ridiculous.
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Poster4613


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to ignore all of your valid points and proclaim that this is the beginning of Alex Smith's regular seasonl MVP campaign.

Alex is going to throw for 32 TDs 0 Int 3496 yards with a QB rating of 115.9. The 49ers will go 16-0.
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Kikuchiyo


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Posts: 2120
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
Poster4613 wrote:
It's only two games...but Alex is #2 in QBR and #2 in td's. The only person ahead of him is Matt Ryan who played the Chiefs who are averaging 80 points given up a game (ish) and the Broncos who had 4 turnovers. It has only been two games, but has Alex been the best QB during this stretch? Shocked


To be fair, we've gone against the Packers, who gave up the most pass yards ever last year, and the Lions, whos pass defense is almost equally as bad and they were missing starters in their secondary. Im excited about Alex's play so far as well, but if you're gonna knock Ryan for playing against bad defenses its only fair to look back at the defenses we've faced as well.


Well also to be fair his receivers have had 10 drops in 2 games. Sure every team has some drops, but 10 in 2 games is ridiculous.


Yes. Thank you. I realize this. I watched both the games so far. Its not new information for me. Look, Im not trying to bash Alex. He's been as accurate as they come so far this year. He'd be sitting near 90% completion rate if it weren't for some drops, but every QB has to deal with drops. Look at Arod and Finley. Hell, Julio Jones had some pretty bad drops too. Im just saying we've played a pair of soft defenses so far. I mean, come on, we're averaging 6 yards a carry on the ground so far. Do you really think we end the year with that average (i hope so, but seriously doubt it)?

I don't mean to rain on everybody's "9ers are the best team in the league" parade. Im just curious to see what we can do against a real defense. Like I said earlier I expect Alex to step his game up when we need him to throw the ball for a win. Its not gonna surprise me when he does it. But the defenses we've faced so far are bottom-15 units.
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Kikuchiyo


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poster4613 wrote:
I'm going to ignore all of your valid points and proclaim that this is the beginning of Alex Smith's regular seasonl MVP campaign.

Alex is going to throw for 32 TDs 0 Int 3496 yards with a QB rating of 115.9. The 49ers will go 16-0.


Laughing

I doubt it happens, but I'll be rooting for it.
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Poster4613


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikuchiyo wrote:
Poster4613 wrote:
I'm going to ignore all of your valid points and proclaim that this is the beginning of Alex Smith's regular seasonl MVP campaign.

Alex is going to throw for 32 TDs 0 Int 3496 yards with a QB rating of 115.9. The 49ers will go 16-0.


Laughing

I doubt it happens, but I'll be rooting for it.

The crazy part is he has already done it Shocked Shocked .......1/8 of the way
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sbrown


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
I get some of the Game Manager talk, but man... Dilfer's numbers in his SB year?

12 TDs / 11 INTs --- 59.3% completion -- 1,502 yds and a 76.6 QBR.

C'mon now... Rolling Eyes


haha man thats as pedestrian as there can possibly be.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kikuchiyo wrote:
but every QB has to deal with drops.


Don't feel like you are being attacked or jumped on here. Just wanted to point this part out. Every team does have drops to deal with, yes... but we always seem to be at the top of the drop rankings... which is absurd considering how much less we pass the ball vs other teams.

We are currently 3rd in drops with 8..

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

I have us with 9 drops, but the one extra I am counting is rather debatable. We are up there with the NYG and Texans. Consider with that that Eli has thrown the ball double that of Alex.. Schaub with a mere 9 more attempts than Alex. It's just something to note.. and something we have to do a better job of, if we are to start having thoughts about blowing teams out vs fighting till the very end to pull out wins.

Our concern area is the pass rush protection... so when you say that you feel we haven't played against top defenses? I'm inclined to think, so what? We went up against defenses that get pressure on QBs.. Clay Mathews brings it and that Lions front 4 is no slouch. We handled both, and I think both defenses stepped up to make us work a bit.

Only been two games, we all know... so we'll see. I think we'll be okay though. As for Alex vs Matt Ryan for the #1 spot? Also I say, who cares? As long as Alex plays well and wins games, I don't think any of us should bother worrying about precise rankings.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
but every QB has to deal with drops.


Don't feel like you are being attacked or jumped on here. Just wanted to point this part out. Every team does have drops to deal with, yes... but we always seem to be at the top of the drop rankings... which is absurd considering how much less we pass the ball vs other teams.

We are currently 3rd in drops with 8..

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

I have us with 9 drops, but the one extra I am counting is rather debatable. We are up there with the NYG and Texans. Consider with that that Eli has thrown the ball double that of Alex.. Schaub with a mere 9 more attempts than Alex. It's just something to note.. and something we have to do a better job of, if we are to start having thoughts about blowing teams out vs fighting till the very end to pull out wins.

Our concern area is the pass rush protection... so when you say that you feel we haven't played against top defenses? I'm inclined to think, so what? We went up against defenses that get pressure on QBs.. Clay Mathews brings it and that Lions front 4 is no slouch. We handled both, and I think both defenses stepped up to make us work a bit.

Only been two games, we all know... so we'll see. I think we'll be okay though. As for Alex vs Matt Ryan for the #1 spot? Also I say, who cares? As long as Alex plays well and wins games, I don't think any of us should bother worrying about precise rankings.


I'll have to remember this link. I"m always wanting to know how many drops we, and other teams have. I didn't see our first game, but from reading the game day thread I had us at 3, and I counted 7 in game 2. Not sure what "officially" counts as a drop but I consider any time a guy gets two hands on the ball and doesn't catch it a drop. That leads to some times where the ball was way behind him or way over his head, or where he was hit hard just as the ball gets there. But, heck, it's football. In my mind you get both your hands on the ball it's your job to haul it in.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
but every QB has to deal with drops.


Don't feel like you are being attacked or jumped on here. Just wanted to point this part out. Every team does have drops to deal with, yes... but we always seem to be at the top of the drop rankings... which is absurd considering how much less we pass the ball vs other teams.

We are currently 3rd in drops with 8..

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

I have us with 9 drops, but the one extra I am counting is rather debatable. We are up there with the NYG and Texans. Consider with that that Eli has thrown the ball double that of Alex.. Schaub with a mere 9 more attempts than Alex. It's just something to note.. and something we have to do a better job of, if we are to start having thoughts about blowing teams out vs fighting till the very end to pull out wins.

Our concern area is the pass rush protection... so when you say that you feel we haven't played against top defenses? I'm inclined to think, so what? We went up against defenses that get pressure on QBs.. Clay Mathews brings it and that Lions front 4 is no slouch. We handled both, and I think both defenses stepped up to make us work a bit.

Only been two games, we all know... so we'll see. I think we'll be okay though. As for Alex vs Matt Ryan for the #1 spot? Also I say, who cares? As long as Alex plays well and wins games, I don't think any of us should bother worrying about precise rankings.


I'll have to remember this link. I"m always wanting to know how many drops we, and other teams have. I didn't see our first game, but from reading the game day thread I had us at 3, and I counted 7 in game 2. Not sure what "officially" counts as a drop but I consider any time a guy gets two hands on the ball and doesn't catch it a drop. That leads to some times where the ball was way behind him or way over his head, or where he was hit hard just as the ball gets there. But, heck, it's football. In my mind you get both your hands on the ball it's your job to haul it in.


I also have us at 9 for the season with oldman, but I'm willing to let 1 slide. I think the definition of the drop that most statisticians use is a pass that under normal circumstances should be caught with reasonable effort. So not quite the 'you get two hands on the pass - you catch it' mantra that most coaches (and most of us as fans) go with, but still pretty straightforward. With that definition, it does allow the receiver some leeway in passes that really would be difficult catches or passes where they get hit so hard the ball jars loose.
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sbrown


Joined: 30 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Kikuchiyo wrote:
but every QB has to deal with drops.


Don't feel like you are being attacked or jumped on here. Just wanted to point this part out. Every team does have drops to deal with, yes... but we always seem to be at the top of the drop rankings... which is absurd considering how much less we pass the ball vs other teams.

We are currently 3rd in drops with 8..

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

I have us with 9 drops, but the one extra I am counting is rather debatable. We are up there with the NYG and Texans. Consider with that that Eli has thrown the ball double that of Alex.. Schaub with a mere 9 more attempts than Alex. It's just something to note.. and something we have to do a better job of, if we are to start having thoughts about blowing teams out vs fighting till the very end to pull out wins.

Our concern area is the pass rush protection... so when you say that you feel we haven't played against top defenses? I'm inclined to think, so what? We went up against defenses that get pressure on QBs.. Clay Mathews brings it and that Lions front 4 is no slouch. We handled both, and I think both defenses stepped up to make us work a bit.

Only been two games, we all know... so we'll see. I think we'll be okay though. As for Alex vs Matt Ryan for the #1 spot? Also I say, who cares? As long as Alex plays well and wins games, I don't think any of us should bother worrying about precise rankings.


I'll have to remember this link. I"m always wanting to know how many drops we, and other teams have. I didn't see our first game, but from reading the game day thread I had us at 3, and I counted 7 in game 2. Not sure what "officially" counts as a drop but I consider any time a guy gets two hands on the ball and doesn't catch it a drop. That leads to some times where the ball was way behind him or way over his head, or where he was hit hard just as the ball gets there. But, heck, it's football. In my mind you get both your hands on the ball it's your job to haul it in.


I also have us at 9 for the season with oldman, but I'm willing to let 1 slide. I think the definition of the drop that most statisticians use is a pass that under normal circumstances should be caught with reasonable effort. So not quite the 'you get two hands on the pass - you catch it' mantra that most coaches (and most of us as fans) go with, but still pretty straightforward. With that definition, it does allow the receiver some leeway in passes that really would be difficult catches or passes where they get hit so hard the ball jars loose.


I been saying this forever...I mean as a receiver I agree
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