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So Pioli, you really don't know anything but the Patriots

 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: So Pioli, you really don't know anything but the Patriots Reply with quote

We have signed Russ Hochstein. He was a Pat from 2002-2008. Shocking.

Adam Caplan wrote:
#Chiefs agree to a one-year deal with veteran C/G Russ Hochstein, per source. Obvious connection there with Pioli and Crennel.

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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid veteran signing, actually. Even though he'll probably be inactive until Hudson is healthy again, it's a solid signing. He's obviously getting long in the tooth, but he's been a relatively mobile and smart interior lineman for a while now. Ex-Patriot or not, this is a pretty good move IMO.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, while predictable, it's a smart move given his familiarity with the scheme, and that's an important part to the equation at this point in the season.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good signing. Nice to have another actual center on the roster.

And you know, as much as it gets noted with Pioli because it is the Patriots, what he does is no different from any other coach or GM coming from another team. With Vermeil we got McCleon, Green, and Kennison who were all former Rams. Herm brought McGraw, Law, and Reed from the Jets. Reggie McKenzie is already dipping into the Packers practice squad for depth. Even Haley brought over Breaston, Castille, and Pope. It's really pretty standard.

And it gets exaggerated. I mean, there's only one starter on our roster who played for the Pats under Pioli or Crennel. Unless I'm missing someone, there's only ever been two, in Vrabel and Cassel.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
Good signing. Nice to have another actual center on the roster.

And you know, as much as it gets noted with Pioli because it is the Patriots, what he does is no different from any other coach or GM coming from another team. With Vermeil we got McCleon, Green, and Kennison who were all former Rams. Herm brought McGraw, Law, and Reed from the Jets. Reggie McKenzie is already dipping into the Packers practice squad for depth. Even Haley brought over Breaston, Castille, and Pope. It's really pretty standard.

And it gets exaggerated. I mean, there's only one starter on our roster who played for the Pats under Pioli or Crennel. Unless I'm missing someone, there's only ever been two, in Vrabel and Cassel.

Ryan O'Callahan, Matt Guttierez, and several other TC guys who didn't stick with the roster have come from the Pats.

For me it's not so much the Pats connections, but the dumpster diving for a guy like Reeves over younger options, and penny pinching (seemingly) by having UDFA's almost exclusively for depth at some positons like Center and when a spot opens up, we don't promote someone from the PS that was with us, we go get a UFA off the street we could have had in here all off season.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:

Ryan O'Callahan, Matt Guttierez, and several other TC guys who didn't stick with the roster have come from the Pats.

For me it's not so much the Pats connections, but the dumpster diving for a guy like Reeves over younger options, and penny pinching (seemingly) by having UDFA's almost exclusively for depth at some positons like Center and when a spot opens up, we don't promote someone from the PS that was with us, we go get a UFA off the street we could have had in here all off season.


I was mainly trying to focus on actual contributors. I'll give you O'Callaghan though.

I didn't really like the Reeves signing, but I disagree with your opinion that they should've gone with a younger option. We signed a guy who was temporary. That was the intent all along, as once Flowers and Brown were back, we didn't really have room for that extra CB anyway. Signing a young guy would give us a guy less likely to contribute immediately, but we were going to cut/IR the guy anyway, so I really don't think that mattered.

And what benefit would there have been to have had Hochstein before? Hochstein has no place on this team when we have a healthy Hudson. With Lilja able to play a little bit of C, there was little reason to carry 8 offensive lineman into every game, and adding a vet into the mix just decreases Allen's usefulness as a backup G. In TC, you don't want a guy like Hochstein because you're taking a spot from a guy who could flash to a guy who is a known quantity. You don't, however, want some random young guy who isn't ready in the middle of the season as an injury fill-in. There isn't much use to elevating a guy the same age as Hudson for one year, when there's no long term benefit. You want to go with the safe quantity that won't mess with the season.

Plus, you're assuming a backup on the PS is even remotely ready to start in the NFL.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
And what benefit would there have been to have had Hochstein before? Hochstein has no place on this team when we have a healthy Hudson. With Lilja able to play a little bit of C, there was little reason to carry 8 offensive lineman into every game, and adding a vet into the mix just decreases Allen's usefulness as a backup G. In TC, you don't want a guy like Hochstein because you're taking a spot from a guy who could flash to a guy who is a known quantity. You don't, however, want some random young guy who isn't ready in the middle of the season as an injury fill-in. There isn't much use to elevating a guy the same age as Hudson for one year, when there's no long term benefit. You want to go with the safe quantity that won't mess with the season.

Plus, you're assuming a backup on the PS is even remotely ready to start in the NFL.

It was TC, we cut other vets too, if Hochstein didn't earn a spot, we could have cut him and moved on. Then signing him now would make more sense, because he's familiar with the system and players.

As for a PS guy getting elevated with no long term benefit, well, I hardly see real world experience as no benefit. And if Rich Ranglin or Patterson isn't ready, why is Brian Mattison? If Mattison was worthy of 53 why not the PS? Maybe he isn't eligible, I can't remember the rules. He had 4 starts with STL last year.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
And what benefit would there have been to have had Hochstein before? Hochstein has no place on this team when we have a healthy Hudson. With Lilja able to play a little bit of C, there was little reason to carry 8 offensive lineman into every game, and adding a vet into the mix just decreases Allen's usefulness as a backup G. In TC, you don't want a guy like Hochstein because you're taking a spot from a guy who could flash to a guy who is a known quantity. You don't, however, want some random young guy who isn't ready in the middle of the season as an injury fill-in. There isn't much use to elevating a guy the same age as Hudson for one year, when there's no long term benefit. You want to go with the safe quantity that won't mess with the season.

Plus, you're assuming a backup on the PS is even remotely ready to start in the NFL.

It was TC, we cut other vets too, if Hochstein didn't earn a spot, we could have cut him and moved on. Then signing him now would make more sense, because he's familiar with the system and players.

As for a PS guy getting elevated with no long term benefit, well, I hardly see real world experience as no benefit. And if Rich Ranglin or Patterson isn't ready, why is Brian Mattison? If Mattison was worthy of 53 why not the PS? Maybe he isn't eligible, I can't remember the rules. He had 4 starts with STL last year.


I agree with you bigs. It made no sense to me what Pioli was doing by tinkering with the PS while seemingly ignoring the domino effect of an injury to some key areas on our 53 man roster such as the secondary and offensive line. As you said, now we add Hochstein, who granted as a veteran shouldn't take a tremendous amount of time to get up to speed as long as he has stayed in playing shape, but it would have been nice to add a veteran behind Hudson not only as insurance against injury but to give him a stabilizing veteran to work with.

I definitely agree with your frustration regarding the dumpster diving that Pioli seems to love.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I missed it...but you guys missed Maneri. Sadly might be the best one out of any of the cast aways.
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