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Pastor Dillon


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
i Didint think it was that bad of a hit, worthy of a penalty, but it didnt look like he was trying take schuab out


What?

He didn't even use his hands. He launched up with the crown of his helmet into Schaub's head. And Schaub was standing tall so there is none of this he lowered his head into it excuse.

This was a vicious and deliberate a hit as there has been in a long time.


let me clarify, i didnt think that they were asked to take schuab out of the game, and i dont think it was premeditated....im sure it was just frustration from a D that was getting torched.....not excusable and i think the 1 game suspension is worthy, but wanting coaches suspended and stuff like that is a little over the top
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roar2014


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Matt Schaub is lucky that Joe Mays didn't run through him. That would have caused serious injury.

But I don't think Joe Mays meant to hurt Schaub, as evidenced by Schaub's comment after the game. I've also personally met Mays and he is one of the nicest people around and is active in the community and that doesn't fit his personality or the team's personality. Mays has never gotten fined for any illegal hits before either, just to keep in mind. So this is not a normal occurrence.

All in all, it was an illegal hit, in the sense that he made contact with his face mask. And by rule any contact with a QB's head will draw a penalty. But anyone that watches the replay can see that Mays never leaves his feet. He has one foot about 3 inches off the ground and the other planted. He also hits Schaub in the sternum, but the top of his helmet connects with the face mask and jars his helmet loose. Also, the fact that Mays lead with his helmet, shows poor technique. But you can't deny the fact that if Mays hits him 2 inches lower, that this would have not been a penalty.

Anyways, I'm not trying to justify the hit, I'm just trying to show that Mays attempted to lay the wood, without trying to connect with Schaub's helmet, but unfortunately failed. He is one tough SOB though.

Overall, good game. You guys were the better team and have a stellar player in Watt. Good luck the rest of the way and hopefully we see you guys in the playoffs.
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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Mays suspended one game for H2H hit on Matt Schaub:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/joe-mays-denver-broncos-suspended-one-game-helmet-hit-matt-schaub-092512
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pastor Dillon wrote:
mse326 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
i Didint think it was that bad of a hit, worthy of a penalty, but it didnt look like he was trying take schuab out


What?

He didn't even use his hands. He launched up with the crown of his helmet into Schaub's head. And Schaub was standing tall so there is none of this he lowered his head into it excuse.

This was a vicious and deliberate a hit as there has been in a long time.


let me clarify, i didnt think that they were asked to take schuab out of the game, and i dont think it was premeditated....im sure it was just frustration from a D that was getting torched.....not excusable and i think the 1 game suspension is worthy, but wanting coaches suspended and stuff like that is a little over the top


Suspension is vindication for Texans, Schaub, (and me) and I couldn't care less that Joe Mays is a "good guy" or need to know whether the 3 illegal hits in 4 plays was premeditated or not (a fact any of those rationalizing Mays hit and JDRs role continue to ignore). A suspension indicates that the league acknowledges that that hit is exactly what the league is trying to eliminate and is amongst the most eggregious violations of this rule in the history of the league (Dunta Robinson wasn't suspended for the Desean Jackson hit). Simple fact is that Mays should have been ejected for the hit so the Texans could actually benefit, but these scabs would never go there. Texans handled themselves with class with this incident handling it through channels instead of the press, but make no mistake, there was a package of clips of these 3 hits sitting on Godell's desk Monday morning along with a call for action. I can also guarantee you that that o-line's ears are ringing more than Schaub's after the reaming Benton, Dennison, and Kubiak must have gave them yesterday after the lapses and not standing up for their QB. Apollodamus hereby predicts at least one offensive linemen goes after a Titan defender this week at the closest sniff of a borderline hit on Matt. Kubiak may still respect the Broncos and have reasons to keep the peace, but the Titans are still enemies even without Jason Jones or [inappropriate/removed] Clown Finnegan.
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roar2014


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
mse326 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
i Didint think it was that bad of a hit, worthy of a penalty, but it didnt look like he was trying take schuab out


What?

He didn't even use his hands. He launched up with the crown of his helmet into Schaub's head. And Schaub was standing tall so there is none of this he lowered his head into it excuse.

This was a vicious and deliberate a hit as there has been in a long time.


let me clarify, i didnt think that they were asked to take schuab out of the game, and i dont think it was premeditated....im sure it was just frustration from a D that was getting torched.....not excusable and i think the 1 game suspension is worthy, but wanting coaches suspended and stuff like that is a little over the top


Suspension is vindication for Texans, Schaub, (and me) and I couldn't care less that Joe Mays is a "good guy" or need to know whether the 3 illegal hits in 4 plays was premeditated or not (a fact any of those rationalizing Mays hit and JDRs role continue to ignore). A suspension indicates that the league acknowledges that that hit is exactly what the league is trying to eliminate and is amongst the most eggregious violations of this rule in the history of the league (Dunta Robinson wasn't suspended for the Desean Jackson hit). Simple fact is that Mays should have been ejected for the hit so the Texans could actually benefit, but these scabs would never go there. Texans handled themselves with class with this incident handling it through channels instead of the press, but make no mistake, there was a package of clips of these 3 hits sitting on Godell's desk Monday morning along with a call for action. I can also guarantee you that that o-line's ears are ringing more than Schaub's after the reaming Benton, Dennison, and Kubiak must have gave them yesterday after the lapses and not standing up for their QB. Apollodamus hereby predicts at least one offensive linemen goes after a Titan defender this week at the closest sniff of a borderline hit on Matt. Kubiak may still respect the Broncos and have reasons to keep the peace, but the Titans are still enemies even without Jason Jones or [inappropriate/removed] Clown Finnegan.


How was it premeditated?

You are going on this tangent that JDR sat there and told the defense to take out the players, yet your doing this based off of your own assumptions. It's clear the Mays hit was illegal and the league agreed, so now he is suspended a game. The other hits resulted in their own and justified penalties. But to say that we are intentionally hurting players is not only farfetched, but completely false.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roar2014 wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
mse326 wrote:
Pastor Dillon wrote:
i Didint think it was that bad of a hit, worthy of a penalty, but it didnt look like he was trying take schuab out


What?

He didn't even use his hands. He launched up with the crown of his helmet into Schaub's head. And Schaub was standing tall so there is none of this he lowered his head into it excuse.

This was a vicious and deliberate a hit as there has been in a long time.


let me clarify, i didnt think that they were asked to take schuab out of the game, and i dont think it was premeditated....im sure it was just frustration from a D that was getting torched.....not excusable and i think the 1 game suspension is worthy, but wanting coaches suspended and stuff like that is a little over the top


Suspension is vindication for Texans, Schaub, (and me) and I couldn't care less that Joe Mays is a "good guy" or need to know whether the 3 illegal hits in 4 plays was premeditated or not (a fact any of those rationalizing Mays hit and JDRs role continue to ignore). A suspension indicates that the league acknowledges that that hit is exactly what the league is trying to eliminate and is amongst the most eggregious violations of this rule in the history of the league (Dunta Robinson wasn't suspended for the Desean Jackson hit). Simple fact is that Mays should have been ejected for the hit so the Texans could actually benefit, but these scabs would never go there. Texans handled themselves with class with this incident handling it through channels instead of the press, but make no mistake, there was a package of clips of these 3 hits sitting on Godell's desk Monday morning along with a call for action. I can also guarantee you that that o-line's ears are ringing more than Schaub's after the reaming Benton, Dennison, and Kubiak must have gave them yesterday after the lapses and not standing up for their QB. Apollodamus hereby predicts at least one offensive linemen goes after a Titan defender this week at the closest sniff of a borderline hit on Matt. Kubiak may still respect the Broncos and have reasons to keep the peace, but the Titans are still enemies even without Jason Jones or [inappropriate/removed] Clown Finnegan.


How was it premeditated?

You are going on this tangent that JDR sat there and told the defense to take out the players, yet your doing this based off of your own assumptions. It's clear the Mays hit was illegal and the league agreed, so now he is suspended a game. The other hits resulted in their own and justified penalties. But to say that we are intentionally hurting players is not only farfetched, but completely false.


I can only assume these Bronco (or even some Texan) fans that don't understand the linkage between these events did not actually watch the game. The Broncos managed 3 field goals thru halftime while Schaub was gashing them with long plays all over the field including 3 tds. The Broncos offense come out of the locker room and proceeded with another 3 and out with negative yards. The next play Special Teamer, Omar Bolden nails Trindon Holliday with a helmet into the ribs while he is trying to catch a punt (his hit was so early the ball hit him in the back, so this doesn't strike me as a player trying to dislodge a ball but rather send a message). If Holliday calls a fair catch on that play and is hit like that, Bolden is ejected by rule, so people need to stop downplaying an early hit on an exposed punt return as a minor infraction. The Texans ran the ball inside the next two plays so there wasn't any opportunity to get at Schaub. The next time that have a shot at a vulnerable player Von Miller, hits Schaub late and tries to drive him thru the turf in a manner that separated his shoulder when Albert Haynesworth did it 3 years ago (Schaub needed x-rays as a result of this illegal hit). This was on a 2 yard dump pass mind you. The very next play, Joe Mays unleashes one of the most vicious crown of the helmet late hits the league has ever seen, which drew one of the first suspensions ever for a dirty hit from a "clean" player. I'm sorry, if you don't see that fact that these 3 plays happened in rapid succession as at the very least players acting completely out of control (45 yards in illegal hit penalties in 2 minutes), or at worst doing so under instructions from their defensive coordinator, but in a post bountygate world, you need to open your eyes.

As for JDR, obviously I have no proof of anything, but he sure has motive and it's more in his character than Miller or Mays'. The Texans essentially were the nail in his Head Coaching coffin as he was fired after the Texans beat his Jags with TJ Yates after they injured Matt Lienart. The Texans and Jags had 9 years of animosity built up including the absurdity with the local hack reporter splicing together footage to make it look like Antonio threw a punch (which was disproven by the unaltered footage and the fine rescinded). He had the attention of his players as he had benched Tracy Porter for getting burned by AJ & Walter and if you can read through the coach-speak JDR hasn't said one word about Porter, Fox had to come up with this "he must have hit his knee or something" bs. Would love to hear some half-time audio.

Maybe I am connecting the dot dots here, but I've watched plenty of football in my 42 years and never seen 3 blatant illegal hits in rapid succession like that. It may not be a conspiracy, but it's absolutely more than a coincidence even if it's just a frustrated coach with a beef telling his players to go out there and make something happen by any means necessary. In baseball when the pitcher blatantly throws at a player both the pitcher and coach get tossed and the Broncos essentially threw at three straight batters in this game and 1 of them was a 100mph fastball to the head. I doubt the Broncos make the playoffs as Peyton is a shell of himself and JDR is a joke of a DC who managed to get killed deep by a dink and dunk team with Champ Bailey back there, but if we do, I doubt the Texans will be in as forgiving a mood as some members of this forum.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Obviously those plays were bad, but the Holliday hit was not a cheap shot. A cheap shot is an intent to injure. The Mays hit, you definitely have an argument, but saying the Trindon Holliday play was a cheap shot is just laughable.


There is no more dangerous play in football than hitting a punt returner who is focused on catching a football coming down from the sky with 10 guys ready to hit him the second he catches it, except to hit him in the ribs BEFORE he can catch it. If Holliday had called a fair catch, the player hitting him would have almost certainly been ejected as flagrant hits on fair catches are one of the few penalties where EJECTION is itemized specifically as part of the penalty. I would agree with you about the nature of the offense if it were isolated unto itself, but in context with the 2 headshots on the ensuing series shows a clear message was sent either by the coaches or the players that the Broncos were going to set a tone and did so with 3 personal fouls in 4 plays. Bush league to a degree far beyond what Schiano did and I suspect the fines and suspensions this week will reflect it. Maybe Del Rio will send somebody after a kicker or a punter (or a cheerleader) this week to show how tough he is, while Decker takes a knee to avoid sliding into a puddle and messing up his guyliner.
Sorry but that is simply not true. Players have been hit after calling fair catches before. Also, there was only 1 headshot. Here's the problem: you exaggerate everything.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Apollo Stallion wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Obviously those plays were bad, but the Holliday hit was not a cheap shot. A cheap shot is an intent to injure. The Mays hit, you definitely have an argument, but saying the Trindon Holliday play was a cheap shot is just laughable.


There is no more dangerous play in football than hitting a punt returner who is focused on catching a football coming down from the sky with 10 guys ready to hit him the second he catches it, except to hit him in the ribs BEFORE he can catch it. If Holliday had called a fair catch, the player hitting him would have almost certainly been ejected as flagrant hits on fair catches are one of the few penalties where EJECTION is itemized specifically as part of the penalty. I would agree with you about the nature of the offense if it were isolated unto itself, but in context with the 2 headshots on the ensuing series shows a clear message was sent either by the coaches or the players that the Broncos were going to set a tone and did so with 3 personal fouls in 4 plays. Bush league to a degree far beyond what Schiano did and I suspect the fines and suspensions this week will reflect it. Maybe Del Rio will send somebody after a kicker or a punter (or a cheerleader) this week to show how tough he is, while Decker takes a knee to avoid sliding into a puddle and messing up his guyliner.
Sorry but that is simply not true. Players have been hit after calling fair catches before. Also, there was only 1 headshot. Here's the problem: you exaggerate everything.


Sorry, you are right. 1 attempt to kill the shoulder. 1 attempt to kill the head. Would it take a foot stomp on the lisfranc on the 3rd play to convince you?

You might find it interesting that JDR's 2nd to last victory over the Texans came in 2009 when Derrick Harvey drove Schaub's repaired shoulder thru the turf in similar late fashion on the first play of the game. It separated the same shoulder Albert Haynesworth targeted twice in the same season, ultimately requiring surgery in 2007. Of course, much like in this case, Schaub got the last laugh as although Rex Grossman and Chris Brown threw away that game, him coming back in the 2nd half and playing (and winning) the final 4 games that season with a separated shoulder was the first clue that these people questioning Matt's toughness and leadership were nuts.

As for the punt return penalty, I wasn't saying that it's an automatic ejection and it wasn't warranted since it wasn't a fair catch, but a flagrant foul on a fair catch is one of the few plays where ejection is specifically itemized as possible punishment. It's far from "laughable" and if that hit comes AFTER the two cheap shots on Schaub I guarantee it draws much more attention.

Clearly it is the Broncos fans who are minimizing this when the league goes to the extraordinary measure of suspending the player and handing out a $50k fine for a first offense, while Mundy knocked Heyward-Bey out cold on a second offense and only drew $21k. This was not a crime of passion, it was a premeditated attempt to injure and while the league may be hesitant to move on the coach without ironclad proof given the Vilma lawsuit, I can guarantee you that the file on JDR is already thick and this is 2 weeks in a row the league is adding to it.

That game tape is also a part of every opponents reel at this point, and Schaub's good friend Greg Knapp is OC in Oakland along with scrappy Mike Brisiel and if I were a Bronco pass rusher this week, I'd be strapping on knee braces for some ZBS cut blocks with a message. We generally like and respect the Broncos. The Raiders don't. You also get Schaub's personal bouncer 6' 7 Erik Winston in a few weeks. You reap what you sow.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fine if you think an ejection is warranted, and that's fine if you think the Mays hit was unacceptable.

What I don't think is correct is when you say that it is 'flagrant' simply because it was a fair catch. It was simply a dumb play, but it wasn't flagrant, forcible, or a cheap shot. Clearly there would have been a fine if it was so bad.

I don't think bringing up the Mundy play helps your case. That play was much more dangerous and the corner lowered his head significantly. That to me is headhunting more than the Mays hit, as he only slightly lowered his head.

I understand that the Mays' hit is upsetting to you and rightly so. I agree with the Mays fine and suspension, unlike some other Bronco fans. Don't think I'm trying to minimize the play because I'm not. It was simply a scary play. The hit Mays did cannot be tolerated, I am with you on that. I just think that hit made you exaggerate other, significantly lesser hits.

Not sure why this would make the Raiders do anything that they don't already do.
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Apollo Stallion


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
That's fine if you think an ejection is warranted, and that's fine if you think the Mays hit was unacceptable.

What I don't think is correct is when you say that it is 'flagrant' simply because it was a fair catch. It was simply a dumb play, but it wasn't flagrant, forcible, or a cheap shot. Clearly there would have been a fine if it was so bad.

I don't think bringing up the Mundy play helps your case. That play was much more dangerous and the corner lowered his head significantly. That to me is headhunting more than the Mays hit, as he only slightly lowered his head.

I understand that the Mays' hit is upsetting to you and rightly so. I agree with the Mays fine and suspension, unlike some other Bronco fans. Don't think I'm trying to minimize the play because I'm not. It was simply a scary play. The hit Mays did cannot be tolerated, I am with you on that. I just think that hit made you exaggerate other, significantly lesser hits.

Not sure why this would make the Raiders do anything that they don't already do.


Joe, I think you are misunderstanding my take on the punt return. I do NOT think it warranted an ejection. If Holliday had signaled for a fair catch, it would have been on the table as a flagrant personal foul, but he didn't call for a fair catch and it ends up just being an early hit. My point was that nailing a player focused on catching a punt remains one of the most dangerous plays in football and is treated as such by the rulebook. Again, as an isolated incident, it's just a dumb accident, but in context with the two plays that followed it, I view it a little differently. Again if that happens AFTER the two cheap shots on our QB, I do think it draws more attention from the league and I can pretty much guarantee there would have been an all out brawl. BTW - There still could be a fine handed out as the Broncos are already leading the league by far with $134,000 in fines in 3 weeks and JDR and Fox didn't get theirs until Monday last week.

As for the Mays hit, we'll have to just agree to disagree on it vs. Mundy, but the guys who make the decisions on this at the NFL agree with me. I do appreciate your level-headed discourse on this as some of these Bronco fans who want to say it was no big deal are simply delusional. I think it's quite naive that some fans are interpreting the Texans playing it cool on this as Schaub or Kubiak dismissing it and moving on. The Texans are publicly playing it cool because we gain more by playing it that way right now and the league did take appropriate action to signal that it is not open season on Matt Schaub anymore. Frankly, Kubiak still has more respect and credibility with Jack Del Rio's bosses (Elway, Bowlen, etc) than JDR does and coupled with some terrible coaching on his part could make JDR very much of a short-timer out there.

I also think Mays honestly was a bit shocked and a bit scared at what he had done as he was a complete ghost the rest of the game and seemed genuinely remorseful afterwards which probably also helped quell the public lashing from the Texans. While he may be a good guy, I think a bad guy (JDR) has gotten in his head two weeks in a row (I had forgotten about his late hit on Matt Ryan) and hopefully a week off and an attention getter like a $50k fine will have him understand that his reputation as a player and a man aren't worth selling out to a hack like Del Rio. Again, I hope Bronco fans can understand that that very same hit on Peyton Manning could have very well paralyzed him with his neck condition and if you've ever read about Kermit Washington (good guy who threw "The Punch" at Rudy T), something like that ruins more than just the victims life.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in case anyone missed the hit, here it is




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
That's fine if you think an ejection is warranted, and that's fine if you think the Mays hit was unacceptable.

What I don't think is correct is when you say that it is 'flagrant' simply because it was a fair catch. It was simply a dumb play, but it wasn't flagrant, forcible, or a cheap shot. Clearly there would have been a fine if it was so bad.

I don't think bringing up the Mundy play helps your case. That play was much more dangerous and the corner lowered his head significantly. That to me is headhunting more than the Mays hit, as he only slightly lowered his head.

I understand that the Mays' hit is upsetting to you and rightly so. I agree with the Mays fine and suspension, unlike some other Bronco fans. Don't think I'm trying to minimize the play because I'm not. It was simply a scary play. The hit Mays did cannot be tolerated, I am with you on that. I just think that hit made you exaggerate other, significantly lesser hits.

Not sure why this would make the Raiders do anything that they don't already do.


Joe, I think you are misunderstanding my take on the punt return. I do NOT think it warranted an ejection. If Holliday had signaled for a fair catch, it would have been on the table as a flagrant personal foul, but he didn't call for a fair catch and it ends up just being an early hit. My point was that nailing a player focused on catching a punt remains one of the most dangerous plays in football and is treated as such by the rulebook. Again, as an isolated incident, it's just a dumb accident, but in context with the two plays that followed it, I view it a little differently. Again if that happens AFTER the two cheap shots on our QB, I do think it draws more attention from the league and I can pretty much guarantee there would have been an all out brawl. BTW - There still could be a fine handed out as the Broncos are already leading the league by far with $134,000 in fines in 3 weeks and JDR and Fox didn't get theirs until Monday last week.

As for the Mays hit, we'll have to just agree to disagree on it vs. Mundy, but the guys who make the decisions on this at the NFL agree with me. I do appreciate your level-headed discourse on this as some of these Bronco fans who want to say it was no big deal are simply delusional. I think it's quite naive that some fans are interpreting the Texans playing it cool on this as Schaub or Kubiak dismissing it and moving on. The Texans are publicly playing it cool because we gain more by playing it that way right now and the league did take appropriate action to signal that it is not open season on Matt Schaub anymore. Frankly, Kubiak still has more respect and credibility with Jack Del Rio's bosses (Elway, Bowlen, etc) than JDR does and coupled with some terrible coaching on his part could make JDR very much of a short-timer out there.

I also think Mays honestly was a bit shocked and a bit scared at what he had done as he was a complete ghost the rest of the game and seemed genuinely remorseful afterwards which probably also helped quell the public lashing from the Texans. While he may be a good guy, I think a bad guy (JDR) has gotten in his head two weeks in a row (I had forgotten about his late hit on Matt Ryan) and hopefully a week off and an attention getter like a $50k fine will have him understand that his reputation as a player and a man aren't worth selling out to a hack like Del Rio. Again, I hope Bronco fans can understand that that very same hit on Peyton Manning could have very well paralyzed him with his neck condition and if you've ever read about Kermit Washington (good guy who threw "The Punch" at Rudy T), something like that ruins more than just the victims life.
I can at least see your point of view here, even though we disagree on some points. Good to know we can have a level-headed discussion about these things. Yeah I don't understand the Broncos fans saying it was nothing and that Schaub is somehow now tough because of the hit.

A hit like that on an older QB like Manning may very well have had worse consequences, had he been exposed to that kind of hit. Hopefully Mays will learn from this.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
in case anyone missed the hit, here it is





12,410 posts were just practice to get to this greatness.

On of you Photoshop guys needs to work with this one. Long live Matt Van Go!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
in case anyone missed the hit, here it is





I don't know why, but I always crack up when I see that picture of Matt Schaub with the bug-eyes.
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