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Broncos LB Mays suspended for helmet-to-helmet hit
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
He didn't lunge his head upwards.. I don't even know what video you're watching.


What? Look at the video. As he's coming in, he lowers his shoulders and it looks like he's going to make a good form tackle, then at the last second, he pops his head back up directly into Shaub's head. His intent was pretty clear, and it's a great suspension.


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The LBC


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
but I question those saying he was going for a killshot, whatever that means.

To be honest, if anything that's the type of hit that deserves the term "killshot" than many of the others we've seen like earholing a guy, largely because that uppercut motion doesn't just risk injury to the skull and brain, it risks major injury to the throat (if struck in a particular way it could crush a larynx/windpipe) and the neck. Those are potentially life-, if not at least career-, threatening types of injuries. It's the reason why some people, ET80 included, feared for DHB's life following taking such a uppercut shot from Mundy.

Mays clearly makes the extra effort and motion in his neck to lift the crown of his helmet in a butting fashion and clearly launches himself (you can see the distinct motions in the clips). On any week where he wasn't coming four days on the heels of being fined by the league for unnecessary roughness (and a player-safety issue) against a QB, it probably would have only garnered another fine. But I don't and can't blame the league for deciding to forego the second "warning" and proceed straight to suspension considering the back-to-back nature of the incidences.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
He didn't lunge his head upwards.. I don't even know what video you're watching.


What? Look at the video. As he's coming in, he lowers his shoulders and it looks like he's going to make a good form tackle, then at the last second, he pops his head back up directly into Shaub's head. His intent was pretty clear, and it's a great suspension.

Once again, I'm not sure what you're watching, but his head didn't raise up until he already hit Schaub. I proved your other assertion wrong and now you continue with a different one.

To LBC. Wheres the uppercut? His head was at the same angle the whole time he was hitting Schaub. An uppercut requires an upward motion. Guys, I'm not arguing the fine or suspension. I just don't agree with the fact that he has such good timing and aim that he meant to do to send Schaub to retirement.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would seem to you guys than anytime a player lowers his head and goes helmet-to-helmet then his intent is to injure.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
It would seem to you guys than anytime a player lowers his head and goes helmet-to-helmet that it's purposeful.


No. We are actually capable of looking at each hit individually and looking to see what the intent was.

Quote:
Once again, I'm not sure what you're watching, but his head didn't raise up until he already hit Schaub


The fact that you are denying that he didn't raise his head into Shaub's is absurd. It's clear that he uses his left leg to power himself up and into Schaub. Look as his right foot hits the ground, his shoulders are lowering and it looks like he's trying to make a good tackle, then as and immediately after his left foot hits the ground he straightens out, and goes high on Schaub. If he wouldv'e stayed low, it would've been a clean hit, but he wasn't trying to make a clean hit. The fact that he didn't even attempt to wrap up and was just using the crown of his helmet as a battering ram makes it that much more obvious.

Quote:
I proved your other assertion wrong and now you continue with a different one.
What did you prove me wrong on? Confused
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
It would seem to you guys than anytime a player lowers his head and goes helmet-to-helmet that it's purposeful.


No. We are actually capable of looking at each hit individually and looking to see what the intent was.

Quote:
Once again, I'm not sure what you're watching, but his head didn't raise up until he already hit Schaub


The fact that you are denying that he didn't raise his head into Shaub's is absurd. It's clear that he uses his left leg to power himself up and into Schaub. Look as his right foot hits the ground, his shoulders are lowering and it looks like he's trying to make a good tackle, then as and immediately after his left foot hits the ground he straightens out, and goes high on Schaub. If he wouldv'e stayed low, it would've been a clean hit, but he wasn't trying to make a clean hit. The fact that he didn't even attempt to wrap up and was just using the crown of his helmet as a battering ram makes it that much more obvious.

Quote:
I proved your other assertion wrong and now you continue with a different one.
What did you prove me wrong on? Confused
I'm done arguing this, we're both seeing something completely different on the play. You claimed earlier that Mays went straight at Schaubs head, when in reality he hit him just under the facemask. Then you changed your argument that it was no different than hitting him straight in the head. Regardless, I don't think there was clear intent, you do. We just differ in opinion, don't act like I'm unfairly trying to defend Mays.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
To LBC. Wheres the uppercut? His head was at the same angle the whole time he was hitting Schaub. An uppercut requires an upward motion. Guys, I'm not arguing the fine or suspension. I just don't agree with the fact that he has such good timing and aim that he meant to do to send Schaub to retirement.

Do I think he intended to injure Schaub? No. I don't think it there was malice behind the intent. I do think he intended to crack him in the head though. Granted, part of that is because I don't believe Mays has the football intelligence to register, on a catch-as-catch-can basis, whether what he's about to do is within the prescribed rules or not, or to be able to project what his action is actually going to do beyond "big hit = chance to create a turnover". Watch his left leg when he drives through/into the crux of the hit, he elevates his trajectory. That's the upward motion I'm talking about. You've got a 5'11" guy coming in on a near 6'5" guy making an upward motion as he initiates contact and people are NOT expecting that to impact the QB's chin and jerk his neck back?!

Regardless, what some of these LB's need to learn (and right quick) is that just because the skull at the top of your head is the thickest (thus less likely to break from blunt impact/force) that also means it's the hardest part of your skull for your brain to ricochet off of when you make that kind of hit (the only benefit they've got is it's more surface area to spread the impact over).

Really it depends on what context you want to use "injure" in. If by injure you mean cripple the man, then no, I don't believe many players have intent to injure in that capacity. However, I do believe that a number of players initiate those hits with the intent to ring the opposing guy's bell so badly (which typically means concuss the guy) that it has an impact on the remainder of the game and that player's performance therein.

And why? Because I was a contemporary of a lot of these guys at the high school level where they taught us exactly that. "If you're not leaving paint from your helmet on the helmet of the other player, then as a defender you're not doing your job well enough." "You hit with bad intentions." "You make a guy REGRET ever coming across the middle on you."
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Jacobys Homey


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ou claimed earlier that Mays went straight at Schaubs head, when in reality he hit him just under the facemask.


That's no less dangerous than being in the head. It's the thinnest part (bone wise) of your head and causes massive shock to travel through your head.

That's why if you ever see someone get knocked out, they are almost exclusively hit in the chin.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
To LBC. Wheres the uppercut? His head was at the same angle the whole time he was hitting Schaub. An uppercut requires an upward motion. Guys, I'm not arguing the fine or suspension. I just don't agree with the fact that he has such good timing and aim that he meant to do to send Schaub to retirement.

Do I think he intended to injure Schaub? No. I don't think it there was malice behind the intent. I do think he intended to crack him in the head though. Granted, part of that is because I don't believe Mays has the football intelligence to register, on a catch-as-catch-can basis, whether what he's about to do is within the prescribed rules or not, or to be able to project what his action is actually going to do beyond "big hit = chance to create a turnover". Watch his left leg when he drives through/into the crux of the hit, he elevates his trajectory. That's the upward motion I'm talking about. You've got a 5'11" guy coming in on a near 6'5" guy making an upward motion as he initiates contact and people are NOT expecting that to impact the QB's chin and jerk his neck back?!

Regardless, what some of these LB's need to learn (and right quick) is that just because the skull at the top of your head is the thickest (thus less likely to break from blunt impact/force) that also means it's the hardest part of your skull for your brain to ricochet off of when you make that kind of hit (the only benefit they've got is it's more surface area to spread the impact over).

Really it depends on what context you want to use "injure" in. If by injure you mean cripple the man, then no, I don't believe many players have intent to injure in that capacity. However, I do believe that a number of players initiate those hits with the intent to ring the opposing guy's bell so badly (which typically means concuss the guy) that it has an impact on the remainder of the game and that player's performance therein.

And why? Because I was a contemporary of a lot of these guys at the high school level where they taught us exactly that. "If you're not leaving paint from your helmet on the helmet of the other player, then as a defender you're not doing your job well enough." "You hit with bad intentions." "You make a guy REGRET ever coming across the middle on you."
Well articulated, good points. Fair enough. All I was trying to say was I didn't think Mays was trying to injure the guy, but was just trying to make a big hit. Unfortunately that was the wrong play to make, mainly because it's so dangerous.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
The LBC wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
To LBC. Wheres the uppercut? His head was at the same angle the whole time he was hitting Schaub. An uppercut requires an upward motion. Guys, I'm not arguing the fine or suspension. I just don't agree with the fact that he has such good timing and aim that he meant to do to send Schaub to retirement.

Do I think he intended to injure Schaub? No. I don't think it there was malice behind the intent. I do think he intended to crack him in the head though. Granted, part of that is because I don't believe Mays has the football intelligence to register, on a catch-as-catch-can basis, whether what he's about to do is within the prescribed rules or not, or to be able to project what his action is actually going to do beyond "big hit = chance to create a turnover". Watch his left leg when he drives through/into the crux of the hit, he elevates his trajectory. That's the upward motion I'm talking about. You've got a 5'11" guy coming in on a near 6'5" guy making an upward motion as he initiates contact and people are NOT expecting that to impact the QB's chin and jerk his neck back?!

Regardless, what some of these LB's need to learn (and right quick) is that just because the skull at the top of your head is the thickest (thus less likely to break from blunt impact/force) that also means it's the hardest part of your skull for your brain to ricochet off of when you make that kind of hit (the only benefit they've got is it's more surface area to spread the impact over).

Really it depends on what context you want to use "injure" in. If by injure you mean cripple the man, then no, I don't believe many players have intent to injure in that capacity. However, I do believe that a number of players initiate those hits with the intent to ring the opposing guy's bell so badly (which typically means concuss the guy) that it has an impact on the remainder of the game and that player's performance therein.

And why? Because I was a contemporary of a lot of these guys at the high school level where they taught us exactly that. "If you're not leaving paint from your helmet on the helmet of the other player, then as a defender you're not doing your job well enough." "You hit with bad intentions." "You make a guy REGRET ever coming across the middle on you."
Well articulated, good points. Fair enough. All I was trying to say was I didn't think Mays was trying to injure the guy, but was just trying to make a big hit. Unfortunately that was the wrong play to make, mainly because it's so dangerous.


Pretty sure you like arguing for the fun of it, because you are CLEARLY wrong yet you try to continue debating on something in which you have ZERO evidence to back up your claim, but yet somehow you have convinced yourself you are right. Its mind boggling really.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah because you have indisputable proof that Mays was trying to send Schaub to the ER.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Yeah because you have indisputable proof that Mays was trying to send Schaub to the ER.


video evidence is pretty obvious
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Yeah because you have indisputable proof that Mays was trying to send Schaub to the ER.


video evidence is pretty obvious


To you maybe.
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brassglobos


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Yeah because you have indisputable proof that Mays was trying to send Schaub to the ER.


video evidence is pretty obvious


Evidently you don't know what indisputable means.

Mays wasn't trying to kill or injure Schaub. He made an illegal hit. If he wanted to seriously injure him, he could have easily launched himself up into Schaub's facemask instead of semi-running through him.

BTW, how the hell was Schaub allowed back into the game after ONE play. What was the concussion test? I thought the NFL was trying to protect players.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brassglobos wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
Joe_is_the_best wrote:
Yeah because you have indisputable proof that Mays was trying to send Schaub to the ER.


video evidence is pretty obvious


Evidently you don't know what indisputable means.

Mays wasn't trying to kill or injure Schaub. He made an illegal hit. If he wanted to seriously injure him, he could have easily launched himself up into Schaub's facemask instead of semi-running through him.

BTW, how the hell was Schaub allowed back into the game after ONE play. What was the concussion test? I thought the NFL was trying to protect players.


oh so you mean like he did?
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