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Could the Saints end up drafting Barkley and shipping Brees?
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

101stSaintsFan wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
NYGFan101 wrote:
If the Saints end up with the #1 pick, Brees should never be called an elite QB again.

Better yet, even in the top 5.

A team with Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, or Eli, would never be in position to draft that high.


Exactly. Eli >>>> Brees


You're funny. I didn't know Brees played both defense and offense. He can be elite and still lose. Just because our defense can't stop wet tissue paper doesn't make Drew any less of a QB. Brees performs and puts points and yards up at elite levels with LESS to work with on offense and defense than ANY of those QBs...well maybe not NY. But then again, we don't have near the defense the giants do.


This season so far...yes...before that, no way.

It would be interesting to see how the other elite QBs in the league would do without their HCs compared to how Brees has done so far.
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
NYGFan101 wrote:
If the Saints end up with the #1 pick, Brees should never be called an elite QB again.

Better yet, even in the top 5.

A team with Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, or Eli, would never be in position to draft that high.


Exactly. Eli >>>> Brees


You're funny. I didn't know Brees played both defense and offense. He can be elite and still lose. Just because our defense can't stop wet tissue paper doesn't make Drew any less of a QB. Brees performs and puts points and yards up at elite levels with LESS to work with on offense and defense than ANY of those QBs...well maybe not NY. But then again, we don't have near the defense the giants do.


This season so far...yes...before that, no way.

It would be interesting to see how the other elite QBs in the league would do without their HCs compared to how Brees has done so far.


Brees has never had a huge, big name weapon. Manning has had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Brady has had Randy Moss, Branch, and Welker. Rodgers has a whole slew of talented receivers. We have ....Jimmy Graham? and this is really only his second year starting. Hell, even Eli had Plaxico in his better days. Ever receiver I've listed is better than what Brees has had to work with minus Graham...and Graham is a friggin TE.
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

101stSaintsFan wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
NYGFan101 wrote:
If the Saints end up with the #1 pick, Brees should never be called an elite QB again.

Better yet, even in the top 5.

A team with Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, or Eli, would never be in position to draft that high.


Exactly. Eli >>>> Brees


You're funny. I didn't know Brees played both defense and offense. He can be elite and still lose. Just because our defense can't stop wet tissue paper doesn't make Drew any less of a QB. Brees performs and puts points and yards up at elite levels with LESS to work with on offense and defense than ANY of those QBs...well maybe not NY. But then again, we don't have near the defense the giants do.


This season so far...yes...before that, no way.

It would be interesting to see how the other elite QBs in the league would do without their HCs compared to how Brees has done so far.


Brees has never had a huge, big name weapon. Manning has had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Brady has had Randy Moss, Branch, and Welker. Rodgers has a whole slew of talented receivers. We have ....Jimmy Graham? and this is really only his second year starting. Hell, even Eli had Plaxico in his better days. Ever receiver I've listed is better than what Brees has had to work with minus Graham...and Graham is a friggin TE.


Are you really stating Deon Branch as a great weapon? He went to seattle and look how great he was there.

I'll give you Randy Moss, who Brady had for one good season.

And while Welker is a very good receiver, Brady without a doubt makes him 5x the receiver he would be without him.

Brady has never had a slew of weapons to throw to. He has also not had a quality running back since Corey Dillon that defenses would actually have to worry about. He has always had one good target his entire career to throw to each season up until last, and look at the numbers he put up.

Brees is great no doubt....but to act like he has always had to work with less than the other greats, especially Brady, is ridiculous.

Brady hasn't had a quality defense in a while, last season they were down right terrible, yet he was still able to carry his team to the Superbowl.

Is Brees to blame completely for these losses....no way...but you guys are acting like his does everything perfect and the only reason they lose is because the defense can't stop a thing...when I watched Brady do just the opposite last season.
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101stSaintsFan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
NYGFan101 wrote:
If the Saints end up with the #1 pick, Brees should never be called an elite QB again.

Better yet, even in the top 5.

A team with Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, or Eli, would never be in position to draft that high.


Exactly. Eli >>>> Brees


You're funny. I didn't know Brees played both defense and offense. He can be elite and still lose. Just because our defense can't stop wet tissue paper doesn't make Drew any less of a QB. Brees performs and puts points and yards up at elite levels with LESS to work with on offense and defense than ANY of those QBs...well maybe not NY. But then again, we don't have near the defense the giants do.


This season so far...yes...before that, no way.

It would be interesting to see how the other elite QBs in the league would do without their HCs compared to how Brees has done so far.


Brees has never had a huge, big name weapon. Manning has had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Brady has had Randy Moss, Branch, and Welker. Rodgers has a whole slew of talented receivers. We have ....Jimmy Graham? and this is really only his second year starting. Hell, even Eli had Plaxico in his better days. Ever receiver I've listed is better than what Brees has had to work with minus Graham...and Graham is a friggin TE.


Are you really stating Deon Branch as a great weapon? He went to seattle and look how great he was there.

I'll give you Randy Moss, who Brady had for one good season.

And while Welker is a very good receiver, Brady without a doubt makes him 5x the receiver he would be without him.

Brady has never had a slew of weapons to throw to. He has also not had a quality running back since Corey Dillon that defenses would actually have to worry about. He has always had one good target his entire career to throw to each season up until last, and look at the numbers he put up.

Brees is great no doubt....but to act like he has always had to work with less than the other greats, especially Brady, is ridiculous.

Brady hasn't had a quality defense in a while, last season they were down right terrible, yet he was still able to carry his team to the Superbowl.

Is Brees to blame completely for these losses....no way...but you guys are acting like his does everything perfect and the only reason they lose is because the defense can't stop a thing...when I watched Brady do just the opposite last season.


What Branch did in Seattle is irrelevant...What he did with Brady is. What I'm saying is Brady has had a beast HOF receiver with him as well as Welker's amazing productivity the past few years. Those 2 receivers ALONE are better than Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore, Robert Meachem, Joe Morgan, Terrence Copper, Adrian Arrington, etc... We do have more RB weapons that you, but for the sake of argument, I'm just talking receivers.

I'm never one to put Brees up on a pedestal...He has some issues and throws tons of picks. But what I AM stating is that he has always had subpar/average at best receivers and he still, statistically, is better than pretty much every other QB in the league. We can talk hypothetically all day long, "if Brees had this guy, or if Brady had that guy instead of so and so", but I don't think we'd get anywhere. I'm just saying that he has done more with much less out of his receiving corps than the aforementioned teams/QBs. He loses his HC/mentor/defense destroyer buddy and all of a sudden people are ready to rebuild and say he isn't elite cuz he can't win? Pardon but that is ridiculous.
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

101stSaintsFan wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
Pats#1 wrote:
101stSaintsFan wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
NYGFan101 wrote:
If the Saints end up with the #1 pick, Brees should never be called an elite QB again.

Better yet, even in the top 5.

A team with Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, or Eli, would never be in position to draft that high.


Exactly. Eli >>>> Brees


You're funny. I didn't know Brees played both defense and offense. He can be elite and still lose. Just because our defense can't stop wet tissue paper doesn't make Drew any less of a QB. Brees performs and puts points and yards up at elite levels with LESS to work with on offense and defense than ANY of those QBs...well maybe not NY. But then again, we don't have near the defense the giants do.


This season so far...yes...before that, no way.

It would be interesting to see how the other elite QBs in the league would do without their HCs compared to how Brees has done so far.


Brees has never had a huge, big name weapon. Manning has had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Brady has had Randy Moss, Branch, and Welker. Rodgers has a whole slew of talented receivers. We have ....Jimmy Graham? and this is really only his second year starting. Hell, even Eli had Plaxico in his better days. Ever receiver I've listed is better than what Brees has had to work with minus Graham...and Graham is a friggin TE.


Are you really stating Deon Branch as a great weapon? He went to seattle and look how great he was there.

I'll give you Randy Moss, who Brady had for one good season.

And while Welker is a very good receiver, Brady without a doubt makes him 5x the receiver he would be without him.

Brady has never had a slew of weapons to throw to. He has also not had a quality running back since Corey Dillon that defenses would actually have to worry about. He has always had one good target his entire career to throw to each season up until last, and look at the numbers he put up.

Brees is great no doubt....but to act like he has always had to work with less than the other greats, especially Brady, is ridiculous.

Brady hasn't had a quality defense in a while, last season they were down right terrible, yet he was still able to carry his team to the Superbowl.

Is Brees to blame completely for these losses....no way...but you guys are acting like his does everything perfect and the only reason they lose is because the defense can't stop a thing...when I watched Brady do just the opposite last season.


What Branch did in Seattle is irrelevant...What he did with Brady is. What I'm saying is Brady has had a beast HOF receiver with him as well as Welker's amazing productivity the past few years. Those 2 receivers ALONE are better than Colston, Devery Henderson, Lance Moore, Robert Meachem, Joe Morgan, Terrence Copper, Adrian Arrington, etc... We do have more RB weapons that you, but for the sake of argument, I'm just talking receivers.

I'm never one to put Brees up on a pedestal...He has some issues and throws tons of picks. But what I AM stating is that he has always had subpar/average at best receivers and he still, statistically, is better than pretty much every other QB in the league. We can talk hypothetically all day long, "if Brees had this guy, or if Brady had that guy instead of so and so", but I don't think we'd get anywhere. I'm just saying that he has done more with much less out of his receiving corps than the aforementioned teams/QBs. He loses his HC/mentor/defense destroyer buddy and all of a sudden people are ready to rebuild and say he isn't elite cuz he can't win? Pardon but that is ridiculous.


You see that was going to be my next point. Brees has had a MUCH better running game to fall back on than Brady has had for quite some time. It is much easier to game plan against the Pats than the Saints over the past several seasons. Having a good RB you can rely on makes it MUCH EASIER to eventually throw up that bomb or TD. Brady hasn't had the luxury of using a good RB to throw off a defense like Brees has had for a long long time.

And yes, what Branch did in Seattle is relevant. Because it shows he is an average receiver that was made to look better than he was by Brady. Brady had Moss for one good year. And if you want to start naming off useless wide receivers, trust me, Brady's receiving corps over his career is far far worse as a whole than Brees'.

I never said Brees wasn't elite, he surely is. My whole point was that your statement about Brees putting up great numbers over a long period of time with much less than Brady just isn't true.

And what happened to all those Saints fans that were saying Brees and the Saints would be just fine without Payton? I remember very distinctly hearing countless posts about how the Saints put up better numbers when the assistant coach took over while Payton was out or something like that...I remember every thread that had to do with the Saints being in big big trouble because they didn't have Payton being quickly and efficiently attacked by Saints fans saying Brees and the Saints were going to be just fine.
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Branch was just always injured in Seattle. When he was healthy, he was a good receiver for us.

But there was no way in hell that he was worth that 1st rounder.
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Big Lob


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barkley is going to be a bust. I feel for whatever team does get him.

Saints need to improve their defense.

'Nuf said.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Brees has never had a huge, big name weapon.


I know the Eagles and Donovan Mcnabb especially would have loved having Marcus Colston to throw to. The Saints recieving corps for the last few years was far from being a bunch of scrubs Brees just made look good.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um...hmm. How can I say this:

- Not at all
- Under NO circumstances
- Are you REALLY asking this question?
- No, really...are you REALLY asking this question?
- Um, NO!
- This can't be a real question, can it be?

Now that I got some of that out of my system (I got plenty more) I think you're forgetting many things in even posing this question:

- Drew Brees JUST signed a very large deal with New Orleans this offseason, one that doesn't have a "team out" like Peyton Manning's deal did in Indianapolis. One of the only reasons the Colts cut Manning to begin with is because it was financially viable, due to clauses that Manning himself insisted be in the contract, due to his neck issues. By and large, there would be no reason for Brees to have such outs in his new deal, because Brees isn't exactly a physical risk.

- Right now, it isn't as if the Saints are losing because Brees isn't playing well. Granted, he's NOT playing as well as we would expect him to play, but that isn't exactly a knock against the guy. We're so used to him putting up video game numbers on a weekly basis, and when he doesn't, we're quick to put it on his shoulders, even if the numbers would be viewed as outstanding by any other QB standards. (If Josh Freeman was doing what Brees is doing this season, we'd be quick to put him in the express lane for superstardom, IMO). The Saints are losing because that defense couldn't stop a team of FF.com Moderators running a pro-set offense. It's THAT bad.

- Drew Brees, moreso than ANY other QB in the NFL...is the face of the city of New Orleans. Remember when Brees got there? The whole city was in shambles, coming off of one of the worst hurricane strikes in US history, one that still bares scars across the city. The team was a traveling road show anchored by guys like Aaron Brooks and Joe Horn. Those two are let loose, Brees and Reggie Bush are brought in to pair up with Deuce McCallister, and...the team has life again, which in turn gives the city hope. The Saints start to win, the city gets behind the team, the city starts to find hope, the Saints win the SB...and the while the city is still in need of repair, there is hope. There is sentimental value behind the man they call Saint Drew, and they city would RIOT if he were to be passed on for any reason.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats#1 wrote:

And what happened to all those Saints fans that were saying Brees and the Saints would be just fine without Payton? I remember very distinctly hearing countless posts about how the Saints put up better numbers when the assistant coach took over while Payton was out or something like that...I remember every thread that had to do with the Saints being in big big trouble because they didn't have Payton being quickly and efficiently attacked by Saints fans saying Brees and the Saints were going to be just fine.

What happened? The defense got WORSE somehow. Thats what happened. The offense is doing more than enough to win games. When you sign Brodrick Bunkley, Curtis Lofton and David Hawthorne to a defense with a good secondary you'd expect them to get better, not take 3 steps back in every category. Spags has been a miserable DC and I can honestly say that our defense is the SOLE reason we are 0-4. If we had Gregg Williams still we'd easily be 3-1 and possibly 4-0, which is saying a lot because Gregg Williams was a very mediocre DC outside of 1 year here.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I approve of this idea.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pookie wrote:
Has an elite QB ever had the worst HC and defense in the NFL in one season, along with his WR's leading the league in drops?


I'm thinking Warren Moon at least had that issue once.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that it is likely the highest the Saints will be picking in a while, I could see them drafting a Quarterback, though I am highly bearish on Barkley, well this entire quarterback class in general for that matter. I could see them taking Geno Smith, and sitting him for the next 3 years behind Brees, a la Aaron Rodgers. However, I don't think there is a QB in this class worthy of a top 10 pick.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see them drafting Barkley and letting him learn under Brees for a few years. No reason to ship out Brees right now, and the fans might boycott considering how much he means to that city in general outside of football.
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesn't make any sense. The Saints are still a championship team, especially if we could get a stud DE at the top of round 1. This teams only glaring weakness is the lack of pass rush. If we can add a top tier DE it would do incredible things for our defense, especially when Spags entire scheme is based off the front 4 getting pressure.
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