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ESPN's power rankings start the Clippers ahead of the Celtic
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What is your take?
Clippers ARE better than the Celtics
62%
 62%  [ 17 ]
Celtics are better than the Clippers
22%
 22%  [ 6 ]
It's ESPN, they're just trying to stir the pot
14%
 14%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 27

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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 12285
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the top 4 goes as follows -

1. Miami - 2/5 of the best players on the planet while adding two sharp-shooters in Ray/Shard.
2. OKC - 2/7 of the best players on the planet. Their only weakness is post scoring.
3. LAL - If it weren't for the Olympics, Dwight's back issues & Nash's body breaking down I'd pick them to win it all. With Kobe rested, Dwight healthy and a MLE signing next summer they'll win the championship in 2014.
4. BOS - Perfectly constructed him but not enough talent to win it all IMO. You can mark them down for the ECF.

Errrbody else...
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
I think the Clippers are going to really surprise people this season. Their core is pretty strong, and that includes a healthy Chauncey Billups, whom they missed dearly last season when he went down with his achilles injury. And they added a lot of really solid depth this off-season in Jamal Crawford, Lamar Odom, Grant Hill, Matt Barnes, and Ronny Turiaf.

The top of the western conference is going to be interesting next season between the Lakers, Thunder, and Clippers battling for the top three spots.


Billups is a good role player now, nothing more. He shouldn't be an integral part of a championship team.

At the end of the day, the Celtics have a better playoff rotation, play much much much better defense, and have a much better half court offense.

I really don't understand any argument for the Clippers.

CP3 > Rondo
Bradley >>> Billups
Pierce >>> Butler
Bass <<< Griffin
KG >>> Jordan

Terry >>> Hill
Lee >> Crawford
Wilcox < Odom
Green >> Barnes
Darko = Turiaf
Collins/Melo/Sulilnger >>> ????
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
Billups is a good role player now, nothing more. He shouldn't be an integral part of a championship team.

At the end of the day, the Celtics have a better playoff rotation, play much much much better defense, and have a much better half court offense.

I really don't understand any argument for the Clippers.

CP3 > Rondo
Bradley >>> Billups
Pierce >>> Butler
Bass <<< Griffin
KG >>> Jordan

Terry >>> Hill
Lee >> Crawford
Wilcox < Odom
Green >> Barnes
Darko = Turiaf
Collins/Melo/Sulilnger >>> ????


Chauncey Billups is one of the best combo-guards in the NBA as he provides the Clippers with a guard that can stretch the floor and run their offense. It never hurts to have one of the clutchest players in the history of the league in your back-court, is he old now? Yes. But the Celtics core is really old as well which you failed to mention.

I hope your head to head player comparisons were just you attempting to be a troll.

Jamal Crawford is better than Courtney Lee, Grant Hill is better than Jeff Green, and Lamar Odom is a lot better than Chris Wilcox. Not to mention Fab Melo is the definition of a scrub and Jared Sullinger isn't going to contribute much during his rookie season as he'll take time to adjust to the NBA game.

What you failed to mention in your post is the fact that the Celtics roster is extremely old while the Clippers for the most part are youthful and are still growing together. Add in the fact that they have their entire core back with the additions of Odom, Crawford, and Hill to their bench who can play and guard multiple positions and I don't see what's not to like about this years Clipper team.
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
Billups is a good role player now, nothing more. He shouldn't be an integral part of a championship team.

At the end of the day, the Celtics have a better playoff rotation, play much much much better defense, and have a much better half court offense.

I really don't understand any argument for the Clippers.

CP3 > Rondo
Bradley >>> Billups
Pierce >>> Butler
Bass <<< Griffin
KG >>> Jordan

Terry >>> Hill
Lee >> Crawford
Wilcox < Odom
Green >> Barnes
Darko = Turiaf
Collins/Melo/Sulilnger >>> ????


Chauncey Billups is one of the best combo-guards in the NBA as he provides the Clippers with a guard that can stretch the floor and run their offense. It never hurts to have one of the clutchest players in the history of the league in your back-court, is he old now? Yes. But the Celtics core is really old as well which you failed to mention.

I hope your head to head player comparisons were just you attempting to be a troll.

Jamal Crawford is better than Courtney Lee, Grant Hill is better than Jeff Green, and Lamar Odom is a lot better than Chris Wilcox. Not to mention Fab Melo is the definition of a scrub and Jared Sullinger isn't going to contribute much during his rookie season as he'll take time to adjust to the NBA game.

What you failed to mention in your post is the fact that the Celtics roster is extremely old while the Clippers for the most part are youthful and are still growing together. Add in the fact that they have their entire core back with the additions of Odom, Crawford, and Hill to their bench who can play and guard multiple positions and I don't see what's not to like about this years Clipper team.


Chauncey Billups WAS one of the best combo-guards and is over the hill now. He has regressed far more than either Pierce or KG has so that comparison is absurd and never was on their level to begin with. He's a liability on defense against both faster PGs and bigger SGs.

Crawford hasn't been good for years now. He's a decent role player who shoots way too much and doesn't play defense.

Pardon me if Hill's 26% from 3 doesn't impress me. He's a SG who can't shoot and is as slow as dirt. Green while coming back from injury has way more talent than Hill does at this point in their respective careers. If you honestly think Hill is a good player 20 years into his career, maybe you should also pick up Fisher while you're at it. Rolling Eyes

Again, Odom WAS great, and has regressed severely. For all we know he is going to be a scrub like he was all last season.


Predicted 12 man roster:
Celtics:
Rondo (26)
Bass (27)
Bradley (21)
Collins (33)
KG (36)
Green (26)
Lee (27)
Melo (22)
Pierce (34)
Sullinger (20)
Terry (35)
Wilcox (30)

Average age: 28
Players over 30: 5
Players 27 or under: 6

Clippers predicted 12 man roster:
Barnes (32)
Billups (36)
Bledsoe (22)
Butler (32)
Crawford (32)
Green (31)
Griffin (23)
Hill (39)
Jordan (24)
Odom (30)
CP3 (27)
Turiaf (29)

Average age: 30
Players over 30: 7
Players 27 or under: 4

Yeah so much for the whole old thing. Rolling Eyes

The Clippers are a collection of names glued together by a superstar in CP3. Barnes/Billups/Butler/Crawford/Hill/Odom haven't been any good for at least 1 or 2 years now. And none of them save Barnes plays any defense. Heck, on the entire roster, the only players capable of playing good defense are Barnes and CP3. Not a single paint protector, and only one guy who can even kind of stick with elite wings and to say Barnes could hold his own against Pierce/Melo/Lebron/Kobe would be a massive overstatement.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 9687
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
Chauncey Billups WAS one of the best combo-guards and is over the hill now. He has regressed far more than either Pierce or KG has so that comparison is absurd. He's a liability on defense against both faster PGs and bigger SGs.

Crawford hasn't been good for years now. He's a decent role player who shoots way too much and doesn't play defense.

Pardon me if Hill's 26% from 3 doesn't impress me. He's a SG who can't shoot and is as slow as dirt. Green while coming back from injury has way more talent than Hill does at this point in their respective careers. If you honestly think Hill is a good player 20 years into his career, maybe you should also pick up Fisher while you're at it. Rolling Eyes

Again, Odom WAS great, and has regressed severely. For all we know he is going to be a scrub like he was all last season.

Yeah so much for the whole old thing. Rolling Eyes

The Clippers are a collection of names glued together by a superstar in CP3. Barnes/Billups/Butler/Crawford/Hill/Odom haven't been any good for at least 1 or 2 years now. And none of them save Barnes plays any defense. Heck, on the entire roster, the only players capable of playing good defense are Barnes and CP3. Not a single paint protector, and only one guy who can even kind of stick with elite wings and to say Barnes could hold his own against Pierce/Melo/Lebron/Kobe would be a massive overstatement.


It's hilarious that you're bashing all of the Clippers players yet you keep failing to mention that Jeff Green, Fab Melo, Chris Wilcox, Jason Collins, and Jared Sullinger are scrubs. Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Jason Terry are all way past their primes and are regressing. And that Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee are just role players.

Also in regards to the age thing, you skewed the numbers once again by including Fab Melo and Jared Sullinger in the numbers as their ages bring down the Celtics average age significantly and neither of them is even going to make a contribution for your team this season.

It's not like I'm saying Boston is a terrible team as I think they'll finish third in the Eastern Conference this season, I just think that the Clippers are going to be better than them. As their core starters are better than the Celtics core starters.
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HOVA333


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 4762
Location: Brockton MA Richard Sherman is a Pansy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bo_Spice wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
Chauncey Billups WAS one of the best combo-guards and is over the hill now. He has regressed far more than either Pierce or KG has so that comparison is absurd. He's a liability on defense against both faster PGs and bigger SGs.

Crawford hasn't been good for years now. He's a decent role player who shoots way too much and doesn't play defense.

Pardon me if Hill's 26% from 3 doesn't impress me. He's a SG who can't shoot and is as slow as dirt. Green while coming back from injury has way more talent than Hill does at this point in their respective careers. If you honestly think Hill is a good player 20 years into his career, maybe you should also pick up Fisher while you're at it. Rolling Eyes

Again, Odom WAS great, and has regressed severely. For all we know he is going to be a scrub like he was all last season.

Yeah so much for the whole old thing. Rolling Eyes

The Clippers are a collection of names glued together by a superstar in CP3. Barnes/Billups/Butler/Crawford/Hill/Odom haven't been any good for at least 1 or 2 years now. And none of them save Barnes plays any defense. Heck, on the entire roster, the only players capable of playing good defense are Barnes and CP3. Not a single paint protector, and only one guy who can even kind of stick with elite wings and to say Barnes could hold his own against Pierce/Melo/Lebron/Kobe would be a massive overstatement.


It's hilarious that you're bashing all of the Clippers players yet you keep failing to mention that Jeff Green, Fab Melo, Chris Wilcox, Jason Collins, and Jared Sullinger are scrubs. Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Jason Terry are all way past their primes and are regressing. And that Brandon Bass and Courtney Lee are just role players.

Also in regards to the age thing, you skewed the numbers once again by including Fab Melo and Jared Sullinger in the numbers as their ages bring down the Celtics average age significantly and neither of them is even going to make a contribution for your team this season.

It's not like I'm saying Boston is a terrible team as I think they'll finish third in the Eastern Conference this season, I just think that the Clippers are going to be better than them. As their core starters are better than the Celtics core starters.


How are you assuming Melo and Sullinger are scrubs? Didn't know the season started!!! Theres just soo much wrong in your post that no one should bother.
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 12994
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a pretty silly thread, it is the Clippers. They have two players easily in the top 15 and Boston has one (who is quite borderline). That alone should tell you who is the better team. Also I love how once a player goes to Boston they instantly get better when they are average bench players.
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Bo_Spice


Joined: 17 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOVA333 wrote:
How are you assuming Melo and Sullinger are scrubs? Didn't know the season started!!! Theres just soo much wrong in your post that no one should bother.


I am assuming Fab Melo is a scrub because he was a scrub in college and showed no offensive game what so ever during his time at Syracuse. I'm not sure how playing against much better competition and players that are his size on a nightly basis will make the game come easier to Melo. He's a poor man's Desagana Diop.

I'm assuming Jared Sullinger won't be able to contribute during his rookie season in the NBA because he struggled in college against big men with NBA size and athleticism. Not to mention he is a below the rim player that lacks quickness and length and was a really bad defender at the college level. If he had trouble defending big men in the Big Ten what makes you think he'll be able to guard NBA big men?
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tonyto3690


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just hilarious how overrated the Clippers are. No defense in the paint, and mediocre perimeter defenders.

Yeah sure it'll look nice and splashy during the regular season, but once again they'll be a flop in the playoffs. Just like I said last year. I remember one poster telling me at the end of the regular season that they were loaded and would dominate in the playoffs hahaha.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
I really don't understand any argument for the Clippers.

CP3 > Rondo
Bradley >>> Billups
Pierce >>> Butler
Bass <<< Griffin
KG >>> Jordan

Terry >>> Hill
Lee >> Crawford
Wilcox < Odom
Green >> Barnes
Darko = Turiaf
Collins/Melo/Sulilnger >>> ????


Of course you can't because you refuse to look at any other perspective except a Celtics viewpoint. And you really can't compare rosters with the way you are trying to. And even if you were attempting to do it that way, you're still WAY off base.

I think you're SEVERELY underestimating the CP3 effect. He's on a different level as far as point guards go based on last year carrying over to this year. If you really think that Rondo is even in the same league as CP3 then I don't know what to tell you. Rondo doesn't have the same offensive capabilities that CP3 does. The Celtics are getting old (at their key players) and have a number of key players with significant injury concerns. The Clippers are easily the better team.
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ya boy hollywud


Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no way the Clippers are better than the Celtics. We know what we're getting with the Celtics, the Clippers have so many questions at this point.

* Which Lamar Odom are they getting? The one two years ago with the Lakers, or the guy who's going to half-[inappropriate/removed] his effort? Who knows.

* Has Blake Griffin actually improved his game this offseason? The guy literally can't do anything on offense except dunking the basketball. if he hasn't improved, their frontline is still pathetic because DeAndre Jordan also can't do anything but dunk.


I just really don't think the Clippers are on the same level as the Celtics.
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ya boy hollywud


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
I think you're SEVERELY underestimating the CP3 effect. He's on a different level as far as point guards go based on last year carrying over to this year. If you really think that Rondo is even in the same league as CP3 then I don't know what to tell you. Rondo doesn't have the same offensive capabilities that CP3 does. The Celtics are getting old (at their key players) and have a number of key players with significant injury concerns. The Clippers are easily the better team.


The Celtics have done a pretty good job at getting younger this offseason while still mixing in effective players. The drafting of Jared Sullinger and Fab Melo was a good move. They also got younger by replacing Ray Allen with Jason Terry. Courtney Lee also adds some youth, as does Jeff Green.
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CrashMan510


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clippers easily better than the Celtics? whaaaat Laughing

Clippers weren't even all that good last year. They fell on their faces against garbage teams last year and I think Boston matches up great against them.

I give the edge to Boston because of their depth/coaching/defense
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1King


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
Bo_Spice wrote:
tonyto3690 wrote:
Billups is a good role player now, nothing more. He shouldn't be an integral part of a championship team.

At the end of the day, the Celtics have a better playoff rotation, play much much much better defense, and have a much better half court offense.

I really don't understand any argument for the Clippers.

CP3 > Rondo
Bradley >>> Billups
Pierce >>> Butler
Bass <<< Griffin
KG >>> Jordan

Terry >>> Hill
Lee >> Crawford
Wilcox < Odom
Green >> Barnes
Darko = Turiaf
Collins/Melo/Sulilnger >>> ????


Chauncey Billups is one of the best combo-guards in the NBA as he provides the Clippers with a guard that can stretch the floor and run their offense. It never hurts to have one of the clutchest players in the history of the league in your back-court, is he old now? Yes. But the Celtics core is really old as well which you failed to mention.

I hope your head to head player comparisons were just you attempting to be a troll.

Jamal Crawford is better than Courtney Lee, Grant Hill is better than Jeff Green, and Lamar Odom is a lot better than Chris Wilcox. Not to mention Fab Melo is the definition of a scrub and Jared Sullinger isn't going to contribute much during his rookie season as he'll take time to adjust to the NBA game.

What you failed to mention in your post is the fact that the Celtics roster is extremely old while the Clippers for the most part are youthful and are still growing together. Add in the fact that they have their entire core back with the additions of Odom, Crawford, and Hill to their bench who can play and guard multiple positions and I don't see what's not to like about this years Clipper team.


Chauncey Billups WAS one of the best combo-guards and is over the hill now. He has regressed far more than either Pierce or KG has so that comparison is absurd and never was on their level to begin with. He's a liability on defense against both faster PGs and bigger SGs.

Crawford hasn't been good for years now. He's a decent role player who shoots way too much and doesn't play defense.

Pardon me if Hill's 26% from 3 doesn't impress me. He's a SG who can't shoot and is as slow as dirt. Green while coming back from injury has way more talent than Hill does at this point in their respective careers. If you honestly think Hill is a good player 20 years into his career, maybe you should also pick up Fisher while you're at it. Rolling Eyes

Again, Odom WAS great, and has regressed severely. For all we know he is going to be a scrub like he was all last season.


You are vastly underrating Billups.

Kind of hard to take you serious when Hill has NEVER been a SG and isn't now.

Where is Eric Bledsoe?

Funny you bring up Clipper injuries, but brush off Green and Bradley's.

Paul > Rondo
Billups = Bradley (at least until I see how both respond from injury).
Jamal Crawford = Jason Terry
Eric Bledsoe = Courtney Lee

Edge: Clippers (at worst even)

Pierce > Butler
Hill = Green
Griffin > Bass
Odom > Sullinger
Garnett > Jordan
Wilcox = Turiaf

Edge: About even

Don't see the point in comparing a wing (Matt Barnes) to big guys (who likely wont play much) either (Melo/Darko).

There IS a case to be made for either team with the Clippers having a much higher upside.
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ya boy hollywud


Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
Billups = Bradley (at least until I see how both respond from injury).

Don't agree at all. Both are coming off serious injuries (Bradley is still hurt); but Bradley is the better player, IMO. His defense alone is better than everything Billups brings. Bradley is an elite defender.

Quote:
Pierce > Butler
Hill = Green
Griffin > Bass
Odom > Sullinger
Garnett > Jordan
Wilcox = Turiaf

Edge: About even


I disagree so much here. I don't care who's better if you match them up. The trio of Garnett, Bass and Pierce is SO MUCH better than Griffin, Jordan and Butler. It's not even close.

Quote:
There IS a case to be made for either team with the Clippers having a much higher upside.


A case can be made, but I just don't see it.
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