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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 13453
Location: the Arizona desert
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 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| apollo14000 wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | apollo14000 wrote: | What do you guys think of trading for Jake Long? He's struggling in Miami right now but that could be in part to their new blocking scheme. He'd be perfect for our power blocking scheme. We'd have to give up probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick but his upside is a top 5 LT. Downside is that he'd cost a lot of money to sign to a long term deal. Although if I were Kolb I'd give up half my salary just to get him here 
He could be an option and looking at the Phins forum he's far from untouchable when it comes to trades. |
The obvious answer is go get him but is Miami's actual front office even interested? What would be the cost? They demanded a 2nd round pick for Vontae Davis, can you imagine what they'd want for Long? Long's also an UFA this offseason, what if he doesn't re-sign with us, has no interest in it? Is a 4 month rental worth it for us? |
I don't think Davis was in the last year of his deal like Long so the Dolphins had more leverage. Long wants a long term deal, and would cost the Dolphins a lot for a player who hasn't adjusted to their scheme well. I don't think a 1st round pick would be required.
Obviously he'd have to communicate to wanting a long term deal with us otherwise no trade. |
Would we have the ability to franchise him or can only the team who drafted him do that?
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 53370
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | apollo14000 wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | apollo14000 wrote: | What do you guys think of trading for Jake Long? He's struggling in Miami right now but that could be in part to their new blocking scheme. He'd be perfect for our power blocking scheme. We'd have to give up probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick but his upside is a top 5 LT. Downside is that he'd cost a lot of money to sign to a long term deal. Although if I were Kolb I'd give up half my salary just to get him here
He could be an option and looking at the Phins forum he's far from untouchable when it comes to trades. |
The obvious answer is go get him but is Miami's actual front office even interested? What would be the cost? They demanded a 2nd round pick for Vontae Davis, can you imagine what they'd want for Long? Long's also an UFA this offseason, what if he doesn't re-sign with us, has no interest in it? Is a 4 month rental worth it for us? |
I don't think Davis was in the last year of his deal like Long so the Dolphins had more leverage. Long wants a long term deal, and would cost the Dolphins a lot for a player who hasn't adjusted to their scheme well. I don't think a 1st round pick would be required.
Obviously he'd have to communicate to wanting a long term deal with us otherwise no trade. |
Would we have the ability to franchise him or can only the team who drafted him do that? |
That's a great question. I'll have to ask and find out. |
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Yibbyl
Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2553
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| apollo14000 wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | apollo14000 wrote: | What do you guys think of trading for Jake Long? He's struggling in Miami right now but that could be in part to their new blocking scheme. He'd be perfect for our power blocking scheme. We'd have to give up probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick but his upside is a top 5 LT. Downside is that he'd cost a lot of money to sign to a long term deal. Although if I were Kolb I'd give up half my salary just to get him here
He could be an option and looking at the Phins forum he's far from untouchable when it comes to trades. |
The obvious answer is go get him but is Miami's actual front office even interested? What would be the cost? They demanded a 2nd round pick for Vontae Davis, can you imagine what they'd want for Long? Long's also an UFA this offseason, what if he doesn't re-sign with us, has no interest in it? Is a 4 month rental worth it for us? |
I don't think Davis was in the last year of his deal like Long so the Dolphins had more leverage. Long wants a long term deal, and would cost the Dolphins a lot for a player who hasn't adjusted to their scheme well. I don't think a 1st round pick would be required.
Obviously he'd have to communicate to wanting a long term deal with us otherwise no trade. |
I see how this trade would be a "win" for us, but if you are Miami, are you really going to trade Long mid-season? Who then would protect your rookie QB's backside? Tannehill is doing well, if I were them, I wouldn't do anything that might suddenly shake his confidence. Long may not fit their system and he may be performing worse than hoped, but who on that roster is going to upgrade or even match what Long does for them? It would be nice to get something in return for him, before he leaves, but is that going to make up for the extra stress and possible beating Tannehill would take? I doubt this is a trade we could realistically make.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 53370
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Yibbyl wrote: | | apollo14000 wrote: | | stchamp98 wrote: | | apollo14000 wrote: | What do you guys think of trading for Jake Long? He's struggling in Miami right now but that could be in part to their new blocking scheme. He'd be perfect for our power blocking scheme. We'd have to give up probably a 2nd or 3rd round pick but his upside is a top 5 LT. Downside is that he'd cost a lot of money to sign to a long term deal. Although if I were Kolb I'd give up half my salary just to get him here
He could be an option and looking at the Phins forum he's far from untouchable when it comes to trades. |
The obvious answer is go get him but is Miami's actual front office even interested? What would be the cost? They demanded a 2nd round pick for Vontae Davis, can you imagine what they'd want for Long? Long's also an UFA this offseason, what if he doesn't re-sign with us, has no interest in it? Is a 4 month rental worth it for us? |
I don't think Davis was in the last year of his deal like Long so the Dolphins had more leverage. Long wants a long term deal, and would cost the Dolphins a lot for a player who hasn't adjusted to their scheme well. I don't think a 1st round pick would be required.
Obviously he'd have to communicate to wanting a long term deal with us otherwise no trade. |
I see how this trade would be a "win" for us, but if you are Miami, are you really going to trade Long mid-season? Who then would protect your rookie QB's backside? Tannehill is doing well, if I were them, I wouldn't do anything that might suddenly shake his confidence. Long may not fit their system and he may be performing worse than hoped, but who on that roster is going to upgrade or even match what Long does for them? It would be nice to get something in return for him, before he leaves, but is that going to make up for the extra stress and possible beating Tannehill would take? I doubt this is a trade we could realistically make. |
Hypothetically (Because I've heard nothing credible saying he's in play), the reason you do it if you're Miami is because he's an UFA and he wants massive dollars. And as you stated, he's performed worse than everyone there had hoped he would. Poor play in a contract year? Theoretically, that's a guy you look to dump. |
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rickyp
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 1192
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Which team would you guys say currently has the best run/pass blocking in the league? Just curious
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oliverisking
Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 312
Location: oregon
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| rickyp wrote: | | Which team would you guys say currently has the best run/pass blocking in the league? Just curious |
49ers, texans, falcons. I think the Vikings line is kinda overlooked as well |
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iRobot
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 789
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I doubt they are going to make any trades.
I see them trying to go back to protection schemes used in weeks 1-3 and going from there. The team is pretty banged up right now and that's not helping. |
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 53370
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| iRobot wrote: | | I doubt they are going to make any trades. |
Same here.
There's no indication that any decent tackle is even available. It's all conjecture at this point, until a GM physically comes out and says it. |
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 50861
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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Going to have alook at the 9 sacks vs the Rams and see where we are at. I am a firm beleiver that the interior OL is far more important in pass proection than many beleive. If the OT's can push their man past the pocket and there is a good area to step into. Step up into a clean pocket and make the throw with good passing lanes.
Need to have a look, but I think the best way for us to fix issues could be to put a quality guard on the interior.
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stchamp98
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 53370
Location: Havre, Montana
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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It has to be taken into context because at the end of the day this is simply 1 sites opinion and their opinions can be horribly flawed, as evidenced many times but here is how PFF ranks our OL, 1 being the best, 5 being the worst:
1. Daryn Colledge, OG
2. Lyle Sendlein, OC
3. Bobby Massie, OT
4. Adam Snyder, OG
5. D'Anthony Batiste, OT
Only Colledge has a grade that places him higher than the league's average for his position. |
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DJ_Fka
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 5371
Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Massie middle of the pack?
PFF must havent seen the last 2 games !
College has been good, dont remember any real issues or any bright spots from him.
We so need Heap back. |
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 50861
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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I have looked at a few of those sacks we had on Thursday, one is Kolb scrambling outside the pocket trying to run, yeah he was pressured and forced to run, but not a true definition of a "sack".
But there are some worrying signs. 1 - We took a sack on what was supposed to be a screen play. Kolb does not even have time to get the ball out on a screen play. 2 - On the Dunbar sack we did not identify a mike blitz. You fail to identify a mike blitz you are going to get sacked all day every day. I don't know who makes our line calls, but you have to pick up a mike blitzer.
Adam Snyder is getting tossed around like a baby in pass protection. He gets a solid initial punch but then he is gone. He was getting beaten time and again by simple rip moves. Put someone else in, High Schoolers could block better than he was on Thursday.
We are putting 4 and 5 wide sets out on the field, nothing too inherently wrong with this, but the Rams are getting pressure on us with 3 man rushes. FROM BOTH EDGES. The Guards need to help there. Snyder did nothing to help Massie all game. NOTHING.
There are a lot of issues there, but many of them come down to being smarter offensively, making the correct protection calls, making the correct line calls, and getting the ball out quickly and on time.
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 13453
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| stchamp98 wrote: | | That's a great question. I'll have to ask and find out. |
If we could franchise him I'd give a 1st & 3rd for him in a nanosecond. The difference with a significant upgrade at Tackle could be 2-3 wins for the rest of the season. Our situation is that bad... Also, Long is a proven player so Whiz/Grimm couldn't screw up his development.
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 50861
Location: New New York
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | | Also, Long is a proven player so Whiz/Grimm couldn't screw up his development. |
I truly beleive it is not about development here, but about putting the right players on the right line to succeed.
We did not screw up Colledge's development, yet he is nothing but an average guard. We did not screw up Snyders development, but he is a turnstile at Guard. Batiste was a journeyman when he got here, we did not screw up his development. Levi Brown is a big road grading tackle who can hold up in pass pro if players cannot pin their ears back against him, so what did we do. We decide to air it out 50 times a game without giving him any help against some of the NFL's best pass rushers.
It is about drafting talent and then putting them in a position to succeed. It is not about development.
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 13453
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | | DirtyDez wrote: | | Also, Long is a proven player so Whiz/Grimm couldn't screw up his development. |
I truly beleive it is not about development here, but about putting the right players on the right line to succeed.
We did not screw up Colledge's development, yet he is nothing but an average guard. We did not screw up Snyders development, but he is a turnstile at Guard. Batiste was a journeyman when he got here, we did not screw up his development. Levi Brown is a big road grading tackle who can hold up in pass pro if players cannot pin their ears back against him, so what did we do. We decide to air it out 50 times a game without giving him any help against some of the NFL's best pass rushers.
It is about drafting talent and then putting them in a position to succeed. It is not about development. |
Well before both drafting and developing comes scouting which we can't do regarding the OL. Whether it be scouting lineman in college or overpaying for terrible lineman from other teams. My point was trading 1st round picks isn't the ideal way to build a team but for 2.5 years of Long or 4 years of D'Brick is so worth it because they'll make more of an impact than any rookie.
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