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Bleedin_Green36


Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 11339
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

babyatemydingo wrote:
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Six days ago the Eagles were going to the Super Bowl.
Now they're too predictable and it's time to fire the coach.

Relax.

There are losses and there are bad losses.
The Cardinals game was a bad loss.
This was just a loss.
The Steelers are a much better team than they had shown prior to this game.
Hell, they were favorites.

The Eagles are 3-2, tied for the lead in the division and have a more favorable schedule than the team with whom they are tied.
There is still a long way to go.


Great post!!
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eagles91


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 3215
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

babyatemydingo wrote:
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Six days ago the Eagles were going to the Super Bowl.
Now they're too predictable and it's time to fire the coach.

Relax.

There are losses and there are bad losses.
The Cardinals game was a bad loss.
This was just a loss.
The Steelers are a much better team than they had shown prior to this game.
Hell, they were favorites.

The Eagles are 3-2, tied for the lead in the division and have a more favorable schedule than the team with whom they are tied.
There is still a long way to go.


I was actually just going to come back in here to amend basically everything I just posted. That warranted a huge disclaimer--the Eagles played another very close game. The difference is they lost this one. That's gonna happen, you're absolutely right. Criticism is always warranted, and I still think the team is not multi faceted enough. Not yet, anyway. Gotta have some faith though. I think favorably of this next game against the Lions.
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babyatemydingo


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

It is just so silly.
Of course they did some things wrong.
Every team does every game.
Of course the other team perfectly predicted some of the plays and defensed them perfectly.
Every team does every game.
Of course the other team completed some passes.
Every team does every game.

The bottom line is that the Eagles were not as good as the Steelers were today, but they weren't atrocious.

The Eagles have Detroit, Atlanta, Dallas, Carolina, Cincinnati and Washington at home.
Plus, New Orleans, Washington, Dallas, Tampa Bay and New York on the road.

Compare that with the Giants road schedule of San Francisco, Dallas, Cincinnati, Washington, Atlanta and Baltimore.
With Washington, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, New Orleans and the Eagles at home.

While I would not say the Eagles are "sitting pretty," I would give them a slight edge going forward.
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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 8617
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles91 wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
The Eagles are too predictable. It's a total joke. There was one 2nd down run to the left that everyone on the field knew was coming. Everyone knows that the Eagles favor running on 2nd down to create a short 1st down especially after an unsuccessful 1st down. Everyone knows that the Eagles run to the outside. In this particular game Shady found success to the left. All of that aligned to result in the Steelers calling a run blitz to their right side and stuffing that predictable play for a loss. Rolling Eyes


I've got to agree with you. Both the offense and defense proved they are not multi-faceted enough to win these kinds of football games. Sure, there are going to be mistakes. But when are we going to see those mistakes corrected during the game? I'm tired of this talk about having things to get better at. No kidding, no team is perfect, every team has weak spots, but how well can you adapt? In my mind, this team has lacked the ability to make quick corrections, and it has lacked that ability for a long time. There are blitzes that my grandmother can see coming, and there are no adjustments made by the offense. Vick is getting killed back there, and there are no plays designed to get the ball out of his hands quickly. Big Ben is effortlessly avoiding the four man rush. So where is the blitz? He was way too comfortable in the pocket, even when it started to collapse.

For the first time I'm actually thinking there needs to be a regime change. This team is far too talented to be playing such bland football. I think a lot of the changes we want to see on the field start with the design of the game plan, and tailoring the offense and defense to play to their strengths. Great football teams are well orchestrated wholes, and this team is looking like it's missing a beat far too often.

I'm OK with Vick at the helm. Sure, if those fumbles hadn't happened, we may have won that game. It may have even been a decisive victory had the momentum not shifted. But Vick is who Vick is, and to be honest, as a passer he has been excellent the past two games. It is apparent to me and most others that Vick does not have the maturity that an elite QB must possess: he isn't going to make the audible that exposes the defense. He's going to stay true and try and make things work. And that leads to holding on to the ball, interceptions, and lost fumbles. Andy and Co. need to help out their units more, bottom line.


After the game Ike Reese talked about the predictability of the defense. The Eagles zoned up certain offensive plays the entire game. The Eagles didn't blitz the entire game. So an intelligent offensive coach can adjust plays to exploit that. This is how the Steelers got open on the last drive. They knew where the hole in the zone would be, AND THEY KNEW THAT THE EAGLES WOULD PLAY ZONE WITHOUT BLITZING. It seems that the entire Eagles coaching staff assembles a game plan during the week then dogmatically stick to that game plan without adjusting during the game to what the other team is doing. Reid is sticking to Jason Avant when Damaris looks like he can do more than Avant.
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beachside_eagle


Joined: 30 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know your currently on your anti-avant crusade, which I agree with to an extent, but damaris really hasn't shown much... He's looked slippery twice and on one of those plays he fumbled. The rest of the time, Avant has brought much more to this team.
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beachside_eagle


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, if a team knows what our D is gonna do and still is limited to 17, then they suck. They have an all time great d-coordinator and we were a FG short of beating them at their place, coming off a bye. So ya, given that, I don't care if we're "predictable."
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marky_b27


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
What did everyone think about Reid gambling on 4th down in the massive drive we had?

And don't just look at the outcome and say it was a good call, what did you REALLY think backed up at our own 30 yard line.


Reid knows he needs to be aggressive - his job is on the line.
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eagles91


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Boston
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
eagles91 wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
The Eagles are too predictable. It's a total joke. There was one 2nd down run to the left that everyone on the field knew was coming. Everyone knows that the Eagles favor running on 2nd down to create a short 1st down especially after an unsuccessful 1st down. Everyone knows that the Eagles run to the outside. In this particular game Shady found success to the left. All of that aligned to result in the Steelers calling a run blitz to their right side and stuffing that predictable play for a loss. Rolling Eyes


I've got to agree with you. Both the offense and defense proved they are not multi-faceted enough to win these kinds of football games. Sure, there are going to be mistakes. But when are we going to see those mistakes corrected during the game? I'm tired of this talk about having things to get better at. No kidding, no team is perfect, every team has weak spots, but how well can you adapt? In my mind, this team has lacked the ability to make quick corrections, and it has lacked that ability for a long time. There are blitzes that my grandmother can see coming, and there are no adjustments made by the offense. Vick is getting killed back there, and there are no plays designed to get the ball out of his hands quickly. Big Ben is effortlessly avoiding the four man rush. So where is the blitz? He was way too comfortable in the pocket, even when it started to collapse.

For the first time I'm actually thinking there needs to be a regime change. This team is far too talented to be playing such bland football. I think a lot of the changes we want to see on the field start with the design of the game plan, and tailoring the offense and defense to play to their strengths. Great football teams are well orchestrated wholes, and this team is looking like it's missing a beat far too often.

I'm OK with Vick at the helm. Sure, if those fumbles hadn't happened, we may have won that game. It may have even been a decisive victory had the momentum not shifted. But Vick is who Vick is, and to be honest, as a passer he has been excellent the past two games. It is apparent to me and most others that Vick does not have the maturity that an elite QB must possess: he isn't going to make the audible that exposes the defense. He's going to stay true and try and make things work. And that leads to holding on to the ball, interceptions, and lost fumbles. Andy and Co. need to help out their units more, bottom line.


After the game Ike Reese talked about the predictability of the defense. The Eagles zoned up certain offensive plays the entire game. The Eagles didn't blitz the entire game. So an intelligent offensive coach can adjust plays to exploit that. This is how the Steelers got open on the last drive. They knew where the hole in the zone would be, AND THEY KNEW THAT THE EAGLES WOULD PLAY ZONE WITHOUT BLITZING. It seems that the entire Eagles coaching staff assembles a game plan during the week then dogmatically stick to that game plan without adjusting during the game to what the other team is doing. Reid is sticking to Jason Avant when Damaris looks like he can do more than Avant.


No comment on Avant, but I like how you snuck that in there Wink But yes, I can't say I disagree with any of this. Sadly the approach was not dynamic enough to really give the team an edge, which is unfortunate, because it was such a close game. It just frustrates me when I have to sit there and watch nervously almost every drive. I was confident in weeks past that the defense would get off the field, but they failed to make adjustments to do just that towards the end of the game against the Steelers. But you've basically summed up my anxiety in this post: those are the things I just feel when I sit and watch some games.
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Meco


Joined: 30 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Eagles are 3-2 and they're tied for the division lead. We've gutted out 3 close wins. We lost to the Steelers by two points. Everything is good. The Eagles are 8th in yards allowed per game on defense, 10th in scoring defense, 11th in yards per game on offense and 8th in the NFL in rushing attempts. Things are going well, right?

Wrong. Oh, so wrong. What I failed to mention is that we lead the NFL in red-zone turnovers, Michael Vick is the most hit QB in the NFL, we're the second lowest scoring offense in the league only above the Jacksonville Jaguars (!!!) and we're once again at the bottom of the league in turnover ratio.

People who are going around saying that "We're 3-2, we're a-okay!" are oversimplifying things, they've taken things so out of focus that they're not able to actually evaluate the team's performance. It's easy to say "We're number one!' without looking further into the problems the Eagles have. Yes, we've won three of five games but there are 16 games in a season and unless things start shaping up quickly, we could easily see this unfocused picture change very, very quickly. The problem(s) the Eagles have don't appear to be being solved, it's the same thing every single week and soon, it will come back to bite this team again just like it did Sunday.

What's the problem? Michael Vick, otherwise known as "Mr. Turnover" (I made that up, aren't I clever?). Since the start of last season (that's 21 games), Michael Vick has missed 3 games and in the other 18 games he's played in he's turned the ball over 29 times. I repeat, Michael Vick has turned the ball over TWENTY NINE TIMES IN EIGHTEEN GAMES. In that same span he's scored 26 times. Vick is turning the ball over more than he is scoring the ball. And just for funsies, there have been 3 QBs to take snaps for the Eagles in the past 21 games and they've combined for a whopping total of 40 turnovers.

I loved the wins we've had this season but they haven't been the sort of wins that inspire hope that we can do something with this season. They're wins we should feel lucky to have. I thought we could be something if we could just clean up the turnovers but I feel fairly confident in saying that the turnovers aren't going away. There are real problems that can't be swept away by saying "We're 1st in the division" because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that we're first in the division now, it matters at the end of the season and we've got 11 games left to play and we've got problems.
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marky_b27


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
The Eagles are 3-2 and they're tied for the division lead. We've gutted out 3 close wins. We lost to the Steelers by two points. Everything is good. The Eagles are 8th in yards allowed per game on defense, 10th in scoring defense, 11th in yards per game on offense and 8th in the NFL in rushing attempts. Things are going well, right?

Wrong. Oh, so wrong. What I failed to mention is that we lead the NFL in red-zone turnovers, Michael Vick is the most hit QB in the NFL, we're the second lowest scoring offense in the league only above the Jacksonville Jaguars (!!!) and we're once again at the bottom of the league in turnover ratio.

People who are going around saying that "We're 3-2, we're a-okay!" are oversimplifying things, they've taken things so out of focus that they're not able to actually evaluate the team's performance. It's easy to say "We're number one!' without looking further into the problems the Eagles have. Yes, we've won three of five games but there are 16 games in a season and unless things start shaping up quickly, we could easily see this unfocused picture change very, very quickly. The problem(s) the Eagles have don't appear to be being solved, it's the same thing every single week and soon, it will come back to bite this team again just like it did Sunday.

What's the problem? Michael Vick, otherwise known as "Mr. Turnover" (I made that up, aren't I clever?). Since the start of last season (that's 21 games), Michael Vick has missed 3 games and in the other 18 games he's played in he's turned the ball over 29 times. I repeat, Michael Vick has turned the ball over TWENTY NINE TIMES IN EIGHTEEN GAMES. In that same span he's scored 26 times. Vick is turning the ball over more than he is scoring the ball. And just for funsies, there have been 3 QBs to take snaps for the Eagles in the past 21 games and they've combined for a whopping total of 40 turnovers.

I loved the wins we've had this season but they haven't been the sort of wins that inspire hope that we can do something with this season. They're wins we should feel lucky to have. I thought we could be something if we could just clean up the turnovers but I feel fairly confident in saying that the turnovers aren't going away. There are real problems that can't be swept away by saying "We're 1st in the division" because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that we're first in the division now, it matters at the end of the season and we've got 11 games left to play and we've got problems.


We're getting outscored by the Browns?!

Oh the shame
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eagles91


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco, I'd respectfully disagree that Vick is the problem. His individual success is undeniably influential on the overall success of the team. But it seems to me that the offense as a whole is just being under utilized. As a passer Vick played a great game against the Steelers defense. However, this offense isn't doing the kinds of things we have seen in the past. Where are the screen plays? The Steelers blitzed Vick all day, but there was no effort to make them pay for their aggressive play. LeSean McCoy is getting his fair amount of touches, sure, but he also needs to be given opportunities to make things happen with the football. I feel the same way about DeSean. He is disappearing too often these days, and while his YPC and receptions are looking OK, I'm not seeing the same electric player. Where is the bubble screen? The reverse? Maybe they are silly plays, but they open the offense up and allow the great playmakers to make plays. I think the offense in particular just isn't being opportunistic enough. Use Brent Celek to chip away those short yards and hammer the linebackers and safeties over the middle. Get the ball to DeSean in space. Keep feeding Shady the ball, and good things will happen. I just don't get why they are forcing themselves to be so one dimensional when all of the pieces are in place to attack almost any defense in a multitude of ways.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Meco. The sky isn't failing, but Vick can't protect the ball, an when you turn the ball over, you're much more likely to lose. [Insert stat of losing when you lose the turnover battle]. And at this point I would much prefer to gives Foles a chance.

The only reason Vick have been able to be "Mr Comeback" is because of our defense. I think they're playing like a borderline top 5 defense right now, and is being underrated for not having the sexy stats like other defenses, but they get it done.
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PowerElite


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beachside_eagle wrote:
Also, if a team knows what our D is gonna do and still is limited to 17, then they suck.


No. If a team knows what you are going to do and adjusts to it and scores on the last play to win the game they are well coached. They won the game.
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AlexM23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good:

Our defence is awesome. Surprised to see people want to scrap the wide-9, we aren't getting sacks at the moment but the pressure with 4 has been pretty consistent thus far. I would however like to see more blitzes.

Bad:

Mike Vick. He's cut down on the INTs but that fumble on the goal line was a freaking joke. Surely if he keeps turning it over down there we'll have to consider bringing in Foles.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
beachside_eagle wrote:
Also, if a team knows what our D is gonna do and still is limited to 17, then they suck.


No. If a team knows what you are going to do and adjusts to it and scores on the last play to win the game they are well coached. They won the game.


They also had two weeks to prepare for our defense, they certainly did their homework in that time.
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