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Oh, mercy...it's Percy!
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Harvin is not necessarily a redzone threat. If your within the 20, it could be a lil difficult to get Harvin the ball. More defenders at the point of attack, and his speed is less of a factor, and the jump ball to him is not really there.

Outside of the redzone, I think he is the most dangerous offensive weapon overall.

If I was picking offensive players after a QB, he would be in the top 5


The issue with Harvin is that he doesnt get behind defenses (maybe it just how MN uses him), therefore, its harder for him to score. If you arent getting downfield and getting behind the defense its very hard to score in this league. With how Harvin is used and where his strengths are is getting him the ball quickly and letting him get those YAC yards. The problem with that is when Harvin catches the ball, he has a heck of a lot of defenders looking to corral him. Its different than a receiver running a go route, a post-corner route, as when a receiver make a reception on those routes there is a greater propensity to score since the receiver only has to be one guy. Harvin has to take on an entire defense. Certainly he has value, but in terms of producing results as in point and big chunks, it becomes more challenging.

Id prefer a downfield type who is capable of making those plays over the top, that player will be more prone to scoring and getting chunks.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get what your saying, but one think I think we're missing on is the part about getting the ball to Percy "quickly".

These 2 yard passes are okay and have value but the quickness of pass enables more defenders to close on him. I think we're missing some of the 10 yard throws over the middle in the slot, and him picking up lot YAC that way.

The longer we delay throwing the ball Percys way, in theory the bigger the gaps between the defense should be as the other players would decoy them away piror to the throw.
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JMac79


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Harvin is not necessarily a redzone threat. If your within the 20, it could be a lil difficult to get Harvin the ball. More defenders at the point of attack, and his speed is less of a factor, and the jump ball to him is not really there.

Outside of the redzone, I think he is the most dangerous offensive weapon overall.

If I was picking offensive players after a QB, he would be in the top 5


But that's part of the issue with considering Harvin a top 5 WR: guys like Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc. are a threat everywhere on the field, not just in certain situations or yardages. I think Harvin is arguably the most explosive offensive player in the league right now, but that doesn't entirely make up for the fact that there are certain limitations to his game. People point to Steve Smith as a similarly "small" WR who plays a physical game... but Smith is also more accomplished as a downfield threat. For all of Harvin's athletic ability, I just don't see him gaining separation from defenders on downfield routes like Smith can do, and that's more a testament to Smith's more refined route running. Could Harvin develop that? Maybe... but he has been in the league for 4 years now, and I really haven't seen many plays where he's been lined up as an outside WR, and gained separation against a CB that matches up with him decently on an athletic standpoint. The same goes for catching contested balls - Smith does a great job for a guy his size, but I'm not sure that I've seen Harvin do the same.

I say all these things, but there are certain skills which Harvin has which are unduplicated by those other guys. First and foremost is lining up as a RB, and being really good in that role... but also Harvin's ability to take a 1 yard pass from the LOS and create 8-15 YAC, through heavy traffic of defenders. I think I can safely say that Harvin is one of the most explosive, perhaps the most dangerous player in the league with the ball in his hands... but that's the rub right there. The elite WRs in the league not only are dangerous when they have the ball, but they also make the process of getting the ball to them easier as well (whether through superior separation, being a big target, or physically fighting for the ball in traffic and coming down with it). It's that part which I think makes some of us hesitant to give Harvin top money as a WR, because I don't think he's really shown those abilities particularly well. From what he's shown now, I think he should be rewarded with a very, very nice contract, perhaps easily the most lucrative for a slot WR... but I don't think we can put him in the class of a Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson at this point.
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Yfz01


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He can get downfield in a hurry. Every time we do play action with the three back set, he seems to get a huge amount of separation down the middle of the field from the deep back.

I think he showed the ability to go deep with success when both Favre and Webb were QB. Even with Ponder, I remember him getting behind two defenders on a 4th down play last year. It's not what he does most often, but that's only because he's so valuable underneath. In my opinion, there hasn't been a non-QB with a greater impact than Harvin this year. Easily the Vikings best weapon both on offense and special teams.
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Yfz01


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
JDBrocks wrote:
This is the second week that I've heard the announcers say that there isn't an offensive player in the league that they would take ahead of Harvin. I think it was the same crew, but I don't know how you can say that about a guy without an offensive TD. Top 5 or Top 10? maybe.


I agree, Harvin isnt getting in the endzone so i am not sure why there has been so much hype. We know Harvin as an elite underneath receiver, but until he can make dynamic plays downfield and put the ball in the endzone, he should never be mentioned with the top 5 WRs of the league. I was baffled by that comment by the commentator in last weeks game. No way i woudl take Harvin over Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. If you recall, the commentator said he would take Harvin over all offensive players outside a QB.


It's been four weeks. Harvin has as many Touchdown's as Calvin does on the season. Larry Fitzgerald only has one more TD this year.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just thinking about something as I'm watching the NFL Network's Top 10 Trick Plays.

Last week, we saw Percy Harvin lineup behind center with Ponder where the RB would normally be. This didn't have much success, but it got me thinking. Some sort of Wildcat Option Reverse play with Harvin and Simpson could really be interesting.

We now have the play on tape where Harvin takes the snap and runs with it. Some sort of option or reverse would be a new wrinkle that teams wouldn't be expecting.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randall Liu ‏@RLiuNFL
Only 2 in @nflhistory w/ 20+ scrimmage TDs & 5+ KR-TDs in 1st 4 @nfl seasons: Gale Sayers & @VikingsFootball @Percy_Harvin
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the first time this week, Percy Harvin elaborated a little on why he was so frustrated during the offseason. His out-of-nowhere rant on the first day of minicamp about unspecified issues with the organization that made him unhappy was followed by a request for a trade.

Harvin: "It was just the identity of our offense. Just not only me, just guys knowing exactly what the coaches are asking of them on a week-to-week basis. Not playing one position one week, and come in and not totally having a grasp on what they're asking for the next week. Everybody now, I think, knows their role, knows what the coaches expect them to do. Now you can just sit back and try to do it at the highest level you can."

Musgrave: "The communication has been really, really good both during the season, training camp and offseason, so we want to keep it going if we can."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/172741311.html?refer=y
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrian Peterson: "Percy's the best player I've ever played with."

Ponder: "A beast, that's probably a good way to describe him. We're going to keep giving him the ball."

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012100704/2012/REG5/titans@vikings#menu=highlights&tab=recap&recap=fullstory
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HighHopes


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^There is really not much else to say about Harvin.

Honestly, probably my favorite player on the team followed by Peterson.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was nice to see the Vikings call Harvin's number on a down field fade route. More of that NEEDS to happen. Harvin is great underneath receiver, but if can consistently make those down field catches (like against the Titans), you've got to get him more opportunities.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



slippery little sucker, isn't he?

dreadful "tackling" too, i do recognize that.
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Captain Viking


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MVP! MVP! MVP! MVP! MVP!
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Vikefan79


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we'll see more offenses trying to plug someone into a Percy type role. Randall Cobb in Green Bay seems like a likely candidate. He's not as physical as Harvin but he has explosive play making ability.
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LostRoadStone


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvin is probably the first player in the NFL who is not a top 5 wide receiver, he's not a top 5 running back, but he's easily a top 5 weapon in the NFL.
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