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GDT: BAL Ravens @ KC Chiefs (W5)
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How many receptions will Cary Williams allow?
0!!!!!!
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
1-3
20%
 20%  [ 4 ]
4-6
35%
 35%  [ 7 ]
7+
35%
 35%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 20

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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I hate winning that ugly, but, hey, we're 4-1. I'm particularly proud of how our defense rebounded in the second half. Holding Charles to 15 yards on 10 carries was huge.

Speaking of which, him and that defense must be fed up with life right now. You can't ask any more of them.


Just want to add that we clearly won that game. Wasn't pretty, but we did what was needed to win (much to the chagrin of the CBS production team Smile ). Chiefs fans in Gen right now saying that the Ravens had no business winning that game. A salty bunch those Chiefs fans are.


Actually the Chiefs had no business winning that game by continuing to stick with #7 as long as possible. Just don't tell me you guys wouldn't be screaming bloody murder if you had not one, but 2 long pass plays called back because of picks called on your WR's like that. Neither one of them was seeking out a defender.

You guys forced one of those three TO's...the first INT, the DB got his hand in there, but that never would've happened if CAssel wasn't staring him down...we all saw a wide open TE in the middle of the field as Cassel threw that Mad


You have to be kidding. One of those was a full-on basketball-style pick.


Show me.


They only show the McCluster hit/pick on the highlights (NFL.com). On the other one the Chiefs player planted and put his hands behind his back as though he were on the court trying to set a screen.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't get to watch the 2nd half because I had to go to uni.

Can someone some up for me how on earth we stopped the run in the 2nd half after being so pathetic in the 1st and save me the trauma of having to watch such an ugly game? Laughing
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
I didn't get to watch the 2nd half because I had to go to uni.

Can someone some up for me how on earth we stopped the run in the 2nd half after being so pathetic in the 1st and save me the trauma of having to watch such an ugly game? Laughing


I'd have to watch the replay (havent had the chance as I went to the O's game almost immediately after), but I'm assuming they adjusted their shading (inside eye vs. outside). First half it seemed like they held the blocks well, but just werent able to get their as he hit the line. If they switched that up, that could easily account for the apparent change. It didnt really look like we got pushed off the ball in the first, we just didnt seem to be there when Charles hit the hole with his elite explosion. Other backs didnt seem to have the same success.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
drd23 wrote:
I didn't get to watch the 2nd half because I had to go to uni.

Can someone some up for me how on earth we stopped the run in the 2nd half after being so pathetic in the 1st and save me the trauma of having to watch such an ugly game? Laughing


I'd have to watch the replay (havent had the chance as I went to the O's game almost immediately after), but I'm assuming they adjusted their shading (inside eye vs. outside). First half it seemed like they held the blocks well, but just werent able to get their as he hit the line. If they switched that up, that could easily account for the apparent change. It didnt really look like we got pushed off the ball in the first, we just didnt seem to be there when Charles hit the hole with his elite explosion. Other backs didnt seem to have the same success.

This. Basically they realized that Charles was hitting the hole fast and going north and south. So as opposed to our ETs shading to the outside shoulder and setting the edge.. And the ILBs cleaning up the runs inside. They realized that with how often the Chiefs were pulling their guards and getting their hats on our ILBs and keeping them from being affective, they switched the traditional responsibilities- it seemed. They had the Edge Threats shade inside shoulder with the ILBs cutting away any outside runs. This kept the pulling guards from getting their hats on the LBers and made them more affective.

Also worth noting is that our OLBs and DEs were told to be more aggressive in the second half. Instead of just maintaining leverage and waiting for the run to come to their gap, they were shedding blocks and trying to stop the run in the backfield. They seemed to go on the offensive.

That and our defensive backs seemed to focus less on pass plays and I'm just guessing but it didn't look like they were taking their traditional read steps and instead were taking LBer like read steps on first and second down. The defense was completely selling out to stop the run.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand how some people can continuously be okay with us "just getting by" with these wins against vastly inferior teams.

Am I the only one who gets infuriated trying to watch us CONSTANTLY play down to the level of our competition?
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jpeter15


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand all the complaints about, "just getting by against inferior teams" and such, but look at the state of the NFL.

Look at teams like the Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Packers, Steelers, Broncos, etc.

Other than the Texans (who I think are excellent) and Falcons (who I don't think are excellent), no other teams are dominating. I think its time we be grateful we are 4-1 regardless of how we win the games. No team is perfect, every team has flaws.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpeter15 wrote:
I understand all the complaints about, "just getting by against inferior teams" and such, but look at the state of the NFL.

Look at teams like the Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Packers, Steelers, Broncos, etc.

Other than the Texans (who I think are excellent) and Falcons (who I don't think are excellent), no other teams are dominating. I think its time we be grateful we are 4-1 regardless of how we win the games. No team is perfect, every team has flaws.


This is where I'm at. I'm not okay with "just getting by," but I'm not going to sit here and say the team has no chance either. As Jpeter points out, there aren't many other teams in the league right now that are dominating the competition. Obviously there are areas in which the team can improve, but I don't think it's doing anyone any favors to ignore/downplay 4-1 as a good sign moving forward.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpeter15 wrote:
I understand all the complaints about, "just getting by against inferior teams" and such, but look at the state of the NFL.

Look at teams like the Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Packers, Steelers, Broncos, etc.

Other than the Texans (who I think are excellent) and Falcons (who I don't think are excellent), no other teams are dominating. I think its time we be grateful we are 4-1 regardless of how we win the games. No team is perfect, every team has flaws.


49ers? They blew out the Jets and just blew out the Bills with Alex freakin Smith at QB....

Patriots? They blew out the Bills and repeatedly score 40+ points on bad teams, because they don't let up.

Heck even the Bears just blew out the Jaguars!

I'm not saying we should blow EVERY team out, but for the past 2 years we've simply played down to the level of our competition and it's came back to bite us in the long run.

I still hold my same position that much of our offensive struggles are because of Cam Cameron's atrocious system and play-calling and REFUSAL to stick to the no-huddle shotgun spread quick throw look that tore apart Cinci, but even further than that it's just our entire team's mentality when playing a lesser opponent of "Meh, let's just show up and since we're better we're going to win..."

We just came off an extended weekend and THAT'S how we play?! That's flat out embarrassing if you ask me, especially after what DB or someone explained about how bad the game actually was.

You guys can be fine with us getting the wins now, but eventually playing down to the level of your competition like this is GOING to cost us.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
jpeter15 wrote:
I understand all the complaints about, "just getting by against inferior teams" and such, but look at the state of the NFL.

Look at teams like the Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Packers, Steelers, Broncos, etc.

Other than the Texans (who I think are excellent) and Falcons (who I don't think are excellent), no other teams are dominating. I think its time we be grateful we are 4-1 regardless of how we win the games. No team is perfect, every team has flaws.


49ers? They blew out the Jets and just blew out the Bills with Alex freakin Smith at QB....

Patriots? They blew out the Bills and repeatedly score 40+ points on bad teams, because they don't let up.

Heck even the Bears just blew out the Jaguars!

I'm not saying we should blow EVERY team out, but for the past 2 years we've simply played down to the level of our competition and it's came back to bite us in the long run.

I still hold my same position that much of our offensive struggles are because of Cam Cameron's atrocious system and play-calling and REFUSAL to stick to the no-huddle shotgun spread quick throw look that tore apart Cinci, but even further than that it's just our entire team's mentality when playing a lesser opponent of "Meh, let's just show up and since we're better we're going to win..."

We just came off an extended weekend and THAT'S how we play?! That's flat out embarrassing if you ask me, especially after what DB or someone explained about how bad the game actually was.

You guys can be fine with us getting the wins now, but eventually playing down to the level of your competition like this is GOING to cost us.


So wait, you didn't see the game and it's automatically Cam's fault?

On the road, the no huddle is an extremely hard thing to do -- it relies on making calls at the line and getting the play communicated effectively. I understand that while on the road, we may not be able to run this type of offense all game long. A 2 minute drill is one thing, because it's generally more or less scripted, but running the no huddle most of the game isn't an easy task on the road.

I too am disappointed with how we can't seem to win decisively when we should, but honestly with this year's team, I'm happy to be 4-1 and think we're foruntate to be in the position we're in. I personally like how Cam has called games so far this year for the most part. If there is a coordinator I'm not too pleased with it's Pees, but I think he called a fairly good game yesterday. Our run defense yesterday was caught with it's pants down, but we made good halftime adjustments (which surprised me) and we were able to shut that down the rest of the game. I still think we need to play more press man, but overall Pees has been ok -- I don't like his style personally and think we need to be more aggressive, but he hasn't been horrible.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
jpeter15 wrote:
I understand all the complaints about, "just getting by against inferior teams" and such, but look at the state of the NFL.

Look at teams like the Cowboys, Giants, Saints, Packers, Steelers, Broncos, etc.

Other than the Texans (who I think are excellent) and Falcons (who I don't think are excellent), no other teams are dominating. I think its time we be grateful we are 4-1 regardless of how we win the games. No team is perfect, every team has flaws.


49ers? They blew out the Jets and just blew out the Bills with Alex freakin Smith at QB....

Patriots? They blew out the Bills and repeatedly score 40+ points on bad teams, because they don't let up.

Heck even the Bears just blew out the Jaguars!

I'm not saying we should blow EVERY team out, but for the past 2 years we've simply played down to the level of our competition and it's came back to bite us in the long run.

I still hold my same position that much of our offensive struggles are because of Cam Cameron's atrocious system and play-calling and REFUSAL to stick to the no-huddle shotgun spread quick throw look that tore apart Cinci, but even further than that it's just our entire team's mentality when playing a lesser opponent of "Meh, let's just show up and since we're better we're going to win..."

We just came off an extended weekend and THAT'S how we play?! That's flat out embarrassing if you ask me, especially after what DB or someone explained about how bad the game actually was.

You guys can be fine with us getting the wins now, but eventually playing down to the level of your competition like this is GOING to cost us.


So wait, you didn't see the game and it's automatically Cam's fault?

On the road, the no huddle is an extremely hard thing to do -- it relies on making calls at the line and getting the play communicated effectively. I understand that while on the road, we may not be able to run this type of offense all game long. A 2 minute drill is one thing, because it's generally more or less scripted, but running the no huddle most of the game isn't an easy task on the road.

I too am disappointed with how we can't seem to win decisively when we should, but honestly with this year's team, I'm happy to be 4-1 and think we're foruntate to be in the position we're in. I personally like how Cam has called games so far this year for the most part. If there is a coordinator I'm not too pleased with it's Pees, but I think he called a fairly good game yesterday. Our run defense yesterday was caught with it's pants down, but we made good halftime adjustments (which surprised me) and we were able to shut that down the rest of the game. I still think we need to play more press man, but overall Pees has been ok -- I don't like his style personally and think we need to be more aggressive, but he hasn't been horrible.


I don't know; I'm just going with the history here in that whenever our offense struggles, 99.0999999% of the time it's because of Cam's play-calling and the way he tries to run the offense. The other .01% it's Flacco crapping the bed. I could be wrong, and since I didn't watch the game I'm hoping someone could clarify on what looked bad on offense, the play calling or Joe (not the offensive line, I'm aware they were bad too).

I like how you summed up the game I generally see eye-to-eye with you on most topics, and this is no different. I think we DO need to play more press coverage because our pass rush just hasn't been effective this year (for obvious reasons and because Peas isn't that great of a coordinator to begin with), but when we have vanilla schemes, 4 man rushes AND we play off coverage with guys who excel in press (Webb and Smith), we're going to get beat, it's just the inevitable.

I just don't think Peas understands the guys he has to work with on defense, personally.
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jpeter15


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the exact number but I felt like we suffered a lot of drops and those are obviously drive killers. I am not happy with how we are playing but right now I care more about wins than how we win. The second half of the season I will start caring more about how we win those games, though.

We also went into this game believing the Chiefs matched up well against us and it proved to be true with the pressure they got on Flacco. Our O-line is not great and it won't magically become great.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpeter15 wrote:
I don't know the exact number but I felt like we suffered a lot of drops and those are obviously drive killers. I am not happy with how we are playing but right now I care more about wins than how we win. The second half of the season I will start caring more about how we win those games, though.

We also went into this game believing the Chiefs matched up well against us and it proved to be true with the pressure they got on Flacco. Our O-line is not great and it won't magically become great.


Well, on the one by Boldin he was WIDE open and could probably have gotten it down into the red zone at least (not sure who was chasing him).
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpeter15 wrote:
I don't know the exact number but I felt like we suffered a lot of drops and those are obviously drive killers. I am not happy with how we are playing but right now I care more about wins than how we win. The second half of the season I will start caring more about how we win those games, though.

We also went into this game believing the Chiefs matched up well against us and it proved to be true with the pressure they got on Flacco. Our O-line is not great and it won't magically become great.


Well no durrr they match up well against us when we play 2 WR 1 TE 2 RB looks all game long and try to throw PA down the field on them!

Press coverage + good pass rush + athletic ILB's = WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME!

I've been reading through a lot of comments on the game and it looks like we went back to the I-Form a lot this game, which obviously means we really didn't even try to exploit their 3rd and 4th corners, which just makes me want to bang my head against wall repeatedly until I can understand Cam's logic.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
jpeter15 wrote:
I don't know the exact number but I felt like we suffered a lot of drops and those are obviously drive killers. I am not happy with how we are playing but right now I care more about wins than how we win. The second half of the season I will start caring more about how we win those games, though.

We also went into this game believing the Chiefs matched up well against us and it proved to be true with the pressure they got on Flacco. Our O-line is not great and it won't magically become great.


Well no durrr they match up well against us when we play 2 WR 1 TE 2 RB looks all game long and try to throw PA down the field on them!

Press coverage + good pass rush + athletic ILB's = WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME!

I've been reading through a lot of comments on the game and it looks like we went back to the I-Form a lot this game, which obviously means we really didn't even try to exploit their 3rd and 4th corners, which just makes me want to bang my head against wall repeatedly until I can understand Cam's logic.


In order to exploit their 3rd and 4th corners, we would have to have 3-4 WR sets, correct? Meaning, assuming we don't take Rice off the field, we have 5 OL, 1 TE, and Rice to block their pass rush. If we go 4 wide, take away the TE. In this situation, we're either going to have to A) throw the ball short (8-12 yards at a time) which limits the field, or B) have some guys go deep which exposes our awful OL.

By going I-form with Leach and Rice in, aside from the fact that running the ball was working decently well, it keeps the defense second guessing and allows us to get some guys down field without the pass rush destroying us -- that half second of hesitation due to the PA (which, without Leach in, would be less effective) can be the difference bewteen a sack and a 40 yard gain.

I personally don't think Cam called a bad game really, I think it was more about the lack of execution whether it was the drops, mental penalties, or just not winning their battles. I'm actually very happy that Cam recognized that our pass offense was struggling and continued to ride Rice to a 100 yard day, rather than doing what he's typically done and continued to try to pass it despite the struggles.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
jpeter15 wrote:
I don't know the exact number but I felt like we suffered a lot of drops and those are obviously drive killers. I am not happy with how we are playing but right now I care more about wins than how we win. The second half of the season I will start caring more about how we win those games, though.

We also went into this game believing the Chiefs matched up well against us and it proved to be true with the pressure they got on Flacco. Our O-line is not great and it won't magically become great.


Well no durrr they match up well against us when we play 2 WR 1 TE 2 RB looks all game long and try to throw PA down the field on them!

Press coverage + good pass rush + athletic ILB's = WE'RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME!

I've been reading through a lot of comments on the game and it looks like we went back to the I-Form a lot this game, which obviously means we really didn't even try to exploit their 3rd and 4th corners, which just makes me want to bang my head against wall repeatedly until I can understand Cam's logic.


In order to exploit their 3rd and 4th corners, we would have to have 3-4 WR sets, correct? Meaning, assuming we don't take Rice off the field, we have 5 OL, 1 TE, and Rice to block their pass rush. If we go 4 wide, take away the TE. In this situation, we're either going to have to A) throw the ball short (8-12 yards at a time) which limits the field, or B) have some guys go deep which exposes our awful OL.

Correct. However, there are MANY ways to protect your awful offensive line and still maintain a passing attack. Look at how many ways the Patriots create passing games from WR screens, short hitch routes, etc. all from shotgun while still maintaining a 4-5 WR look at all times, or an empty backfield. Just because our OL can't protect for 3 seconds doesn't mean we can't throw the ball out of spread, we just have to be creative about it, something Cam usually lacks in.

By going I-form with Leach and Rice in, aside from the fact that running the ball was working decently well, it keeps the defense second guessing and allows us to get some guys down field without the pass rush destroying us -- that half second of hesitation due to the PA (which, without Leach in, would be less effective) can be the difference bewteen a sack and a 40 yard gain.

Except, it really doesn't. What it does is tells the defense they are free to rush and bring 8 in the box because we are either going to run the ball or PA and go deep. When your offensive line is struggling, your WR's can't beat the press and Flacco makes questionable decisions out of I-Form anyways, AND your play-calling schemes aren't creative in the first place; it adds up to what you guys saw yesterday...

I personally don't think Cam called a bad game really, I think it was more about the lack of execution whether it was the drops, mental penalties, or just not winning their battles. I'm actually very happy that Cam recognized that our pass offense was struggling and continued to ride Rice to a 100 yard day, rather than doing what he's typically done and continued to try to pass it despite the struggles.

I also agree with the fact that I'm happy Cam rode Ray Rice in the end, but didn't we get lucky with the call that blew the play dead where Flacco was sacked and fumbled and they recovered for a TD? At a first glance it looked like that was a fumble to me, and in which case Cam didn't learn because it took THAT play for him to say "Okay, wow, dodged a bullet, let's throw it AGAIN!" And Flacco ran for that first down. Is that how the sequence went? Idk that's how I remember watching it on the highlights, but I could be wrong.


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