| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bmore4life815
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3427
Location: Climbing up M&T
|
 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
|
| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | bmore4life815 wrote: | | simonwayne wrote: | 1. Charles
2. Peterson
3. MJD
4. Rice
5. McCoy |
If you really want to believe this, go right ahead. Just don't EVER complain again when your fanbase continues to get picked on. |
Yeah, dude, Peterson has had the better career, but to say it's laughable to rank Charles ahead of Peterson right now is ignorant. They are both pretty much my favorite players in the league. They are really the only two with the ability to take their team somewhere w/out decent QB play. Right now Charles is playing better and since you can't say it's a one year fluke, why doesn't he get the edge? |
Charles is playing better? I don't see it. Let's break them down:
Charles
Week 1 (ATL): I actually watched bits of this game. Wasn't too impressed.
Week 3 (NO): Torched them; had a jaw-dropping statline.
Week 4 (SD): So-so. Broke a long TD, and accounted for another one, but turned it over twice within his first four carries.
Week 5 (BAL): Got off to a fabulous start, but he was a complete non-factor in the second half.
Peterson
Week 1 (Jac): Outstanding game considering he didn't even suit up during the preseason.
Week 2 (IND): Half of his carries went for 5 yards or more. Monster game? Certainly not, but a steady and productive one.
Week 3 (SF): 107 total yards against a defense widely regarded as the best in the league? Not too bad.
Week 4 (DET): Another beastly effort from him. Broke 10 tackles; 71 yards came after initial contact.
Week 5 (TEN): Hurt his ankle on the first carry of the game. Still finished with relatively solid numbers.
So, no, I strongly disagree with that.
_________________
Bernard "Crush Boy" Pollard- Forever a Raven
El Ramster on the sig that isn't going anywhere |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jakuvious
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4607
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| bmore4life815 wrote: |
Charles is playing better? I don't see it. Let's break them down:
Charles
Week 1 (ATL): I actually watched bits of this game. Wasn't too impressed.
Week 3 (NO): Torched them; had a great game.
Week 4 (SD): So-so. Broke a long TD, and accounted for another one, but turned it over twice within his first four carries.
Week 5 (BAL): Got off to a fabulous start, but he was a complete non-factor in the second half.
Peterson
Week 1 (Jac): Outstanding game considering he didn't even suit up during the preseason.
Week 2 (IND): Half of his carries went for 5 yards or more. Monster game? Certainly not, but a steady and productive one.
Week 3 (SF): 107 total yards against a defense widely regarded as the best in the league? Not too bad.
Week 4 (DET): Another beastly effort from him. Broke 10 tackles; 71 yards came after initial contact.
Week 5 (TEN): Hurt his ankle on the first carry of the game. Still finished with relatively solid numbers.
So, no, I strongly disagree with that. |
Not that I agree with ranking Charles over Peterson (I certainly do not), it is really easy to make an argument like this when you take the glass half full approach on every game of one player and a glass half empty approach on every game of the other player. I could do the exact same thing by reversing how I look at each game and it still wouldn't help prove anything.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bmore4life815
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3427
Location: Climbing up M&T
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Jakuvious wrote: | | bmore4life815 wrote: |
Charles is playing better? I don't see it. Let's break them down:
Charles
Week 1 (ATL): I actually watched bits of this game. Wasn't too impressed.
Week 3 (NO): Torched them; had a great game.
Week 4 (SD): So-so. Broke a long TD, and accounted for another one, but turned it over twice within his first four carries.
Week 5 (BAL): Got off to a fabulous start, but he was a complete non-factor in the second half.
Peterson
Week 1 (Jac): Outstanding game considering he didn't even suit up during the preseason.
Week 2 (IND): Half of his carries went for 5 yards or more. Monster game? Certainly not, but a steady and productive one.
Week 3 (SF): 107 total yards against a defense widely regarded as the best in the league? Not too bad.
Week 4 (DET): Another beastly effort from him. Broke 10 tackles; 71 yards came after initial contact.
Week 5 (TEN): Hurt his ankle on the first carry of the game. Still finished with relatively solid numbers.
So, no, I strongly disagree with that. |
Not that I agree with ranking Charles over Peterson (I certainly do not), it is really easy to make an argument like this when you take the glass half full approach on every game of one player and a glass half empty approach on every game of the other player. I could do the exact same thing by reversing how I look at each game and it still wouldn't help prove anything. |
Glass half-empty? I think I was pretty objective here. I didn't even include Charles' performance in the first half from week 2.
I certainly appreciate your honesty regarding where Charles stands as a RB, though. He's elite (easily top 5; possibly top 3), but not the best.
_________________
Bernard "Crush Boy" Pollard- Forever a Raven
El Ramster on the sig that isn't going anywhere
Last edited by bmore4life815 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
C0LTSFAN4L1F3
Joined: 27 Nov 2011
Posts: 255
Location: Michigan
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Arian's vision>>>>>>>>>>Charles's vision
Idk if Arian's is better than AD's but his is easily better than anyone else's in the league. Im not sure that Foster would really be doing a whole lot right now without his amazing vision |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jakuvious
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4607
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| bmore4life815 wrote: | | Jakuvious wrote: | | bmore4life815 wrote: |
Charles is playing better? I don't see it. Let's break them down:
Charles
Week 1 (ATL): I actually watched bits of this game. Wasn't too impressed.
Week 3 (NO): Torched them; had a great game.
Week 4 (SD): So-so. Broke a long TD, and accounted for another one, but turned it over twice within his first four carries.
Week 5 (BAL): Got off to a fabulous start, but he was a complete non-factor in the second half.
Peterson
Week 1 (Jac): Outstanding game considering he didn't even suit up during the preseason.
Week 2 (IND): Half of his carries went for 5 yards or more. Monster game? Certainly not, but a steady and productive one.
Week 3 (SF): 107 total yards against a defense widely regarded as the best in the league? Not too bad.
Week 4 (DET): Another beastly effort from him. Broke 10 tackles; 71 yards came after initial contact.
Week 5 (TEN): Hurt his ankle on the first carry of the game. Still finished with relatively solid numbers.
So, no, I strongly disagree with that. |
Not that I agree with ranking Charles over Peterson (I certainly do not), it is really easy to make an argument like this when you take the glass half full approach on every game of one player and a glass half empty approach on every game of the other player. I could do the exact same thing by reversing how I look at each game and it still wouldn't help prove anything. |
Glass half-empty? I think I was pretty objective here. I didn't even include Charles' performance in the first half from week 2.
I certainly appreciate your honesty regarding where Charles stands as a RB, though. He's elite (easily top 5; possibly top 3), but not the best. |
Well I'm just saying, to blame Charles for his struggles in the 2nd half against Baltimore is silly. That was to be expected when we continued to refuse to pass the ball. It had nothing to do with Charles. You use the fact that Peterson was injured yet started well to prop him up, but fail to mention that this was Charles first serious action since his ACL injury as well. Calling him so-so at San Diego is definitely a discredit given how thoroughly the rest of our offense struggled that game (if you only meant he was so-so BECAUSE of the two fumbles, then I would agree, I will add that.) And you also leave out some facts that should be worth including, like that Charles is actually second for all RB in yards after contact, and I would argue he has played a much tougher defensive schedule than Peterson, playing San Diego, Atlanta, and Baltimore, who are all formidable defenses, while I only really think San Fran from AP's schedule is above average. The light things are put in make a huge difference. Not to say you're biased or anything, I just felt you left out some key things to Charles's credit. IMO though, these are the two best pure runners in the NFL right now. Guys like Rice, MJD, and Foster offer a bit more in the total package than either Peterson or Charles, but few can match Charles's vision and speed, or Peterson's overall athleticism and balance.
I'm glad to see someone from another fan base acknowledging that Charles is elite. Too many still rely on overused rhetoric to argue that he still hasn't proven it in this way or that way.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18073
Location: Anywhere
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
All + AP are the top 6 backs. I'd go Foster, Rice, McCoy, Charles, AP, MJD.
_________________
| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jakuvious
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4607
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: | Arian's vision>>>>>>>>>>Charles's vision
Idk if Arian's is better than AD's but his is easily better than anyone else's in the league. Im not sure that Foster would really be doing a whole lot right now without his amazing vision |
Way too many >>>>>>s in there. Foster may have better vision, but they're pretty damn close at the top of the list in that trait.
Consider this. Over the past 3 years, in the Chiefs offense, Charles averages 6.1 ypc. Over that same timespan, the backs we've used have included:
Thomas Jones at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 3.1 ypc (2011)
Jackie Battle at 3.1 ypc (2010) and 4.0 ypc (2011)
Dexter McCluster at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 4.5 ypc (2011)
Peyton Hillis at 4.4 ypc
This is with the exact same o-lines, with a wide variety of backs ranging from speed (McCluster, Battle) and power (Hillis, Battle.) Yet he averages about a full 2 yards per carry more than the rest of the backs KC has had over the past 3 years. That's all in his ability to find running lanes and see the holes the offensive line is opening up for him.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18073
Location: Anywhere
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Jakuvious wrote: | | C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: | Arian's vision>>>>>>>>>>Charles's vision
Idk if Arian's is better than AD's but his is easily better than anyone else's in the league. Im not sure that Foster would really be doing a whole lot right now without his amazing vision |
Way too many >>>>>>s in there. Foster may have better vision, but they're pretty damn close at the top of the list in that trait.
Consider this. Over the past 3 years, in the Chiefs offense, Charles averages 6.1 ypc. Over that same timespan, the backs we've used have included:
Thomas Jones at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 3.1 ypc (2011)
Jackie Battle at 3.1 ypc (2010) and 4.0 ypc (2011)
Dexter McCluster at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 4.5 ypc (2011)
Peyton Hillis at 4.4 ypc
This is with the exact same o-lines, with a wide variety of backs ranging from speed (McCluster, Battle) and power (Hillis, Battle.) Yet he averages about a full 2 yards per carry more than the rest of the backs KC has had over the past 3 years. That's all in his ability to find running lanes and see the holes the offensive line is opening up for him. |
Something about Speed, Battle doesn't fit.  Unless you meant Jones, but he ain't speed either. 
_________________
| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bmore4life815
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3427
Location: Climbing up M&T
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Jakuvious wrote: | | bmore4life815 wrote: | | Jakuvious wrote: | | bmore4life815 wrote: |
Charles is playing better? I don't see it. Let's break them down:
Charles
Week 1 (ATL): I actually watched bits of this game. Wasn't too impressed.
Week 3 (NO): Torched them; had a great game.
Week 4 (SD): So-so. Broke a long TD, and accounted for another one, but turned it over twice within his first four carries.
Week 5 (BAL): Got off to a fabulous start, but he was a complete non-factor in the second half.
Peterson
Week 1 (Jac): Outstanding game considering he didn't even suit up during the preseason.
Week 2 (IND): Half of his carries went for 5 yards or more. Monster game? Certainly not, but a steady and productive one.
Week 3 (SF): 107 total yards against a defense widely regarded as the best in the league? Not too bad.
Week 4 (DET): Another beastly effort from him. Broke 10 tackles; 71 yards came after initial contact.
Week 5 (TEN): Hurt his ankle on the first carry of the game. Still finished with relatively solid numbers.
So, no, I strongly disagree with that. |
Not that I agree with ranking Charles over Peterson (I certainly do not), it is really easy to make an argument like this when you take the glass half full approach on every game of one player and a glass half empty approach on every game of the other player. I could do the exact same thing by reversing how I look at each game and it still wouldn't help prove anything. |
Glass half-empty? I think I was pretty objective here. I didn't even include Charles' performance in the first half from week 2.
I certainly appreciate your honesty regarding where Charles stands as a RB, though. He's elite (easily top 5; possibly top 3), but not the best. |
Well I'm just saying, to blame Charles for his struggles in the 2nd half against Baltimore is silly. That was to be expected when we continued to refuse to pass the ball. It had nothing to do with Charles. You use the fact that Peterson was injured yet started well to prop him up, but fail to mention that this was Charles first serious action since his ACL injury as well. Calling him so-so at San Diego is definitely a discredit given how thoroughly the rest of our offense struggled that game (if you only meant he was so-so BECAUSE of the two fumbles, then I would agree, I will add that.) And you also leave out some facts that should be worth including, like that Charles is actually second for all RB in yards after contact, and I would argue he has played a much tougher defensive schedule than Peterson, playing San Diego, Atlanta, and Baltimore, who are all formidable defenses, while I only really think San Fran from AP's schedule is above average. The light things are put in make a huge difference. Not to say you're biased or anything, I just felt you left out some key things to Charles's credit. IMO though, these are the two best pure runners in the NFL right now. Guys like Rice, MJD, and Foster offer a bit more in the total package than either Peterson or Charles, but few can match Charles's vision and speed, or Peterson's overall athleticism and balance.
I'm glad to see someone from another fan base acknowledging that Charles is elite. Too many still rely on overused rhetoric to argue that he still hasn't proven it in this way or that way. |
Charles played in each preseason game, though. Big difference. And, yes, it was so-so IMO due to the two fumbles within his first four carries (one of which cost them 7 points).
Agreed. They are the two best in terms of pure running ability. Charles is the very best at bursting into the second level once locating a hole, and runs at a good pad level. His overall strength is pretty impressive as well. And Adrian Peterson is, well, Adrian Peterson.
_________________
Bernard "Crush Boy" Pollard- Forever a Raven
El Ramster on the sig that isn't going anywhere |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jakuvious
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 4607
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| JammerHammer21 wrote: | | Jakuvious wrote: | | C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: | Arian's vision>>>>>>>>>>Charles's vision
Idk if Arian's is better than AD's but his is easily better than anyone else's in the league. Im not sure that Foster would really be doing a whole lot right now without his amazing vision |
Way too many >>>>>>s in there. Foster may have better vision, but they're pretty damn close at the top of the list in that trait.
Consider this. Over the past 3 years, in the Chiefs offense, Charles averages 6.1 ypc. Over that same timespan, the backs we've used have included:
Thomas Jones at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 3.1 ypc (2011)
Jackie Battle at 3.1 ypc (2010) and 4.0 ypc (2011)
Dexter McCluster at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 4.5 ypc (2011)
Peyton Hillis at 4.4 ypc
This is with the exact same o-lines, with a wide variety of backs ranging from speed (McCluster, Battle) and power (Hillis, Battle.) Yet he averages about a full 2 yards per carry more than the rest of the backs KC has had over the past 3 years. That's all in his ability to find running lanes and see the holes the offensive line is opening up for him. |
Something about Speed, Battle doesn't fit. Unless you meant Jones, but he ain't speed either. |
Battle is actually very fast. Don't let his size and the label of "power back" fool you.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 18073
Location: Anywhere
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Jakuvious wrote: | | JammerHammer21 wrote: | | Jakuvious wrote: | | C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: | Arian's vision>>>>>>>>>>Charles's vision
Idk if Arian's is better than AD's but his is easily better than anyone else's in the league. Im not sure that Foster would really be doing a whole lot right now without his amazing vision |
Way too many >>>>>>s in there. Foster may have better vision, but they're pretty damn close at the top of the list in that trait.
Consider this. Over the past 3 years, in the Chiefs offense, Charles averages 6.1 ypc. Over that same timespan, the backs we've used have included:
Thomas Jones at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 3.1 ypc (2011)
Jackie Battle at 3.1 ypc (2010) and 4.0 ypc (2011)
Dexter McCluster at 3.7 ypc (2010) and 4.5 ypc (2011)
Peyton Hillis at 4.4 ypc
This is with the exact same o-lines, with a wide variety of backs ranging from speed (McCluster, Battle) and power (Hillis, Battle.) Yet he averages about a full 2 yards per carry more than the rest of the backs KC has had over the past 3 years. That's all in his ability to find running lanes and see the holes the offensive line is opening up for him. |
Something about Speed, Battle doesn't fit. Unless you meant Jones, but he ain't speed either. |
Battle is actually very fast. Don't let his size and the label of "power back" fool you. |
Unless he has a huge hole, he builds up no speed. Reminds me of that giant run against Atlanta. Wish that was Mathews. Battle is very fast for a dude his size, but not fast for a RB.
_________________
| Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote: | | Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AntiSuperstar
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4324
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Frank Gore is better than any of them.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
Posts: 5602
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: | Arian's vision>>>>>>>>>>Charles's vision
Idk if Arian's is better than AD's but his is easily better than anyone else's in the league. Im not sure that Foster would really be doing a whole lot right now without his amazing vision |
Disagree. Hes averaging IIRC 4 yards a carry and leads the league in rushing and attempts.
There is no love for MJD. I think he is the best RB in the league then ray rice but a 100% AP i would take over all of them
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
texans_uk
Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 25100
Location: Kempes on the sig
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Why are chiefs fans choosing Charles ypc against their other backs as if that as an argument? Did you see the Texans running backs before foster with essentially the same oline? Yes Tate gets good ypc, but that's because he is a good running back in his own right and it always helps playing alongside an elite rb like Arian.
_________________
| DallasInHeart wrote: | | Buddy if you lived in Europe or ever gone to visit Europe you would know that over there Football is totally on a different level |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kiwibrown
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 2053
Location: NZ
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Jamaal Charles.
best RB in the league.
_________________
I survived Johannesburg, 2013. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
