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eagles101
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 7554
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 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:01 am Post subject: |
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you know why lebron is the easy choice? because you have seen him do a large amount of athletic things...while football has a much smaller need for a well rounded athlete.
moss might be more athletic but watching game tape there is no way to tell.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 11588
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| eagles101 wrote: | you know why lebron is the easy choice? because you have seen him do a large amount of athletic things...while football has a much smaller need for a well rounded athlete.
moss might be more athletic but watching game tape there is no way to tell. |
Yet the football field is actually bigger than the basketball court. I'd say that LeBron on a basketball court can ONLY wow us with acceleration, explosive leaping ability, strength, quickness, and balance. Moss on a football field can display ALL of those things... plus he can display deep speed, COD while running at TOP SPEED (you can never get to top speed on a basketball court), greater range of hand-eye coordination (as you have a longer distance to track the football in the air).
I honestly don't know how you can even make such a conclusion. Football combines short area speed, explosive abilities in conjunction with a much longer range explosiveness. If you're going off the eye ball test, the football field can show you much more athleticism than a basketball court ever could... and it's honestly not even close.
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eagles101
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | eagles101 wrote: | you know why lebron is the easy choice? because you have seen him do a large amount of athletic things...while football has a much smaller need for a well rounded athlete.
moss might be more athletic but watching game tape there is no way to tell. |
Yet the football field is actually bigger than the basketball court. I'd say that LeBron on a basketball court can ONLY wow us with acceleration, explosive leaping ability, strength, quickness, and balance. Moss on a football field can display ALL of those things... plus he can display deep speed, COD while running at TOP SPEED (you can never get to top speed on a basketball court), greater range of hand-eye coordination (as you have a longer distance to track the football in the air).
I honestly don't know how you can even make such a conclusion. Football combines short area speed, explosive abilities in conjunction with a much longer range explosiveness. If you're going off the eye ball test, the football field can show you much more athleticism than a basketball court ever could... and it's honestly not even close. |
it is bigger but there is more athletic things that happen on a basketball court. i know football shows all the things that basketball does but basketball shows more of it. the times that lebron shows off his athleticism on the court in one season is more then you can show an entire lifetime of football. even playing it you can tell that football uses a lot smaller range of athleticism. especially body control.
the only thing football shows that basketball doesnt show more of is sustained top speed, and that doesnt happen that often.
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reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:38 am Post subject: |
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I think people are confusing being a Freak of nature to athleticism. The reason why LBJ is a freak because you shouldnt be able to do things he does at that size. And you guys do know that lebron was a great football player in high school. The thing is about lebron nobody knows how fast he can run, people have just made up times. Some people have said 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, 4.6 etc. Lebron is just as athletic as the guys smaller than him. He is a once in a generation or lifetime athlete.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| reckless123 wrote: | | I think people are confusing being a Freak of nature to athleticism. The reason why LBJ is a freak because you shouldnt be able to do things he does at that size. And you guys do know that lebron was a great football player in high school. The thing is about lebron nobody knows how fast he can run, people have just made up times. Some people have said 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, 4.6 etc. Lebron is just as athletic as the guys smaller than him. He is a once in a generation or lifetime athlete. |
Please do explain then.
From where I stand athleticism means having the physical traits needed to perform well at an activity. Hence being a freak of nature would therefore make one more able to perform well at an activity in comparison to one without that freak ability.
Now not everyone lives up to their athletic potential because they don't have the TECHNICAL understanding, but that's not to the fault of their genetic gifts that made them fully capable of being a standout performer in a specific task.
... and more than that, what does your point have to do with this particular discussion. BOTH LeBron and Moss are doing things at their size that no one else should be able to do. BOTH are freaks of nature.
Put either in a different sport and they both have the ability to be great players at either sport because of the freak physical ability. That ability to translate their impact into different athletic tasks because of freak genetics IS what makes them athletic. Sports requires a range of tasks depending on the sport, so if you want to argue that athleticism is having the ability to participate in a greater range of sports... than this discussion that covers the physical traits that make one more successful in a wide-array of sports... is completely relevant to the discussion of athleticism. Freak genetics is completely relevant to "athleticism" in ANY discussion of it.
EDIT: The two terms are not one in the same, but in a discussion of athleticism, measuring those specific traits are the only way one can best determine who is the more athletic person- as in who can perform best in a greater range of sports. Without using those traits there is no way one can argue who a more athletic person is unless each person is forced to participate in a gauntlet of athletic activities until a clear cut winner is decided.
We'd have to see Moss/LeBron run 100m, 200m, 400m dashes. See them swim in pools. See them play basketball, baseball, football, soccer, rugby... see them compete in cross country, tennis, golf, volleyball, etc... or we could just discuss their freak physical abilities and hold constant the work ethic it would take to achieve success in each physical activity if trained in it. I think the latter is a better strategy in determining a hypothetical winner of "most athletic".
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reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | reckless123 wrote: | | I think people are confusing being a Freak of nature to athleticism. The reason why LBJ is a freak because you shouldnt be able to do things he does at that size. And you guys do know that lebron was a great football player in high school. The thing is about lebron nobody knows how fast he can run, people have just made up times. Some people have said 4.3, 4.4, 4.5, 4.6 etc. Lebron is just as athletic as the guys smaller than him. He is a once in a generation or lifetime athlete. |
Please do explain then.
From where I stand athleticism means having the physical traits needed to perform well at an activity. Hence being a freak of nature would therefore make one more able to perform well at an activity in comparison to one without that freak ability.
Now not everyone lives up to their athletic potential because they don't have the TECHNICAL understanding, but that's not to the fault of their genetic gifts that made them fully capable of being a standout performer in a specific task.
... and more than that, what does your point have to do with this particular discussion. BOTH LeBron and Moss are doing things at their size that no one else should be able to do. BOTH are freaks of nature.
Put either in a different sport and they both have the ability to be great players at either sport because of the freak physical ability. That ability to translate their impact into different athletic tasks because of freak genetics IS what makes them athletic. Sports requires a range of tasks depending on the sport, so if you want to argue that athleticism is having the ability to participate in a greater range of sports... than this discussion that covers the physical traits that make one more successful in a wide-array of sports... is completely relevant to the discussion of athleticism. Freak genetics is completely relevant to "athleticism" in ANY discussion of it.
EDIT: The two terms are not one in the same, but in a discussion of athleticism, measuring those specific traits are the only way one can best determine who is the more athletic person- as in who can perform best in a greater range of sports. Without using those traits there is no way one can argue who a more athletic person is unless each person is forced to participate in a gauntlet of athletic activities until a clear cut winner is decided.
We'd have to see Moss/LeBron run 100m, 200m, 400m dashes. See them swim in pools. See them play basketball, baseball, football, soccer, rugby... see them compete in cross country, tennis, golf, volleyball, etc... or we could just discuss their freak physical abilities and hold constant the work ethic it would take to achieve success in each physical activity if trained in it. I think the latter is a better strategy in determining a hypothetical winner of "most athletic". |
Im not saying that being a freak of nature has nothing to do with athleticism because it has everything to do with it. If lebron was 6"2" or 6"4" i dont think he would be a freak of nature, we would just call him extremely athletic. But the fact that he is 6"8" and is able to do things that a guy like russell westbrook can do is what dubs him a freak of nature because guys his size and weight shouldnt be able to do what he does.
My point is that, Basketball require more athleticism than Football. Moss is a freak of nature in football but we wouldnt be calling him that if he were a B-ball player. However, i personally think that if lebron was a football player he would still be dubbed a Freak of Nature.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Bohlmann20 wrote: | | yupyup wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | RandyMossIsBoss wrote: | | I'm a big fan of Randy Moss (how did you know doe?), and while I think you guys aren't giving him enough credit here, Lebron still takes this one. He is probably the most physically talented athlete of all time, dude is a freak of nature. Moss definitely has more speed, but that's about it, although he takes that by a wide margin, also may have the vertical by a slight margin. Lebron on the other hand is much taller, much longer, much stronger, bigger broad jump, and bigger hands, plus his speed is nothing short of amazing for his height and weight. |
No, he's not. 
Lebron's athleticism is so overrated. |
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Oh snap. You're challenging Jrry. There will be blood from ownage here in a few posts. |
There won't be. It's not really worth the time to fight over it. People love Lebron because of the myths about him. There are some myths about Moss too(mainly from NBT) but he's the better athlete when you really think about it.
The thing that makes people love Lebron so much is because of his size. And while he definitely has amazing combination of athleticism at 6'7" 250ish, it's not as amazing as people make it out to be. Moss is definitely in the top 4 of the freakiest athletes who have ever played in the NFL(I'd say the other 3 are Vick, Bo and Calvin but some might mention other players). The thing is that I go the opposite direction than most when it comes to who I think was the freakiest athlete to ever play in the NFL.
To me, that's prime Mike Vick. People love size but if you really think about it, Vick had the most unique and rare skill-set you'll probably ever find in any sport. Lebron is another guy who possesses a skill-set like that but that comes just as much from his basketball skill than it does from his athleticism whereas Vick's more relied on his athleticism than anything else.
Lebron is an amazing athlete, no doubt, but he's not as good as people hype him up to be. He's some 6'8" 270 pounder with 4.4 speed and a 50 inch vertical.
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DirtyDez
Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 10919
Location: the Arizona desert
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:24 am Post subject: |
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If Lebron pursued football he'd be an all pro TE. If Moss pursued basketball he wouldn't make the D-League...
>Lebron 10/10 times<
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eagles101
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | If Lebron pursued football he'd be an all pro TE. If Moss pursued basketball he wouldn't make the D-League...
>Lebron 10/10 times< |
ya but if moss pursued nascar he would be the GOAT of racing.
of course if lebron pursued cricket he would be a GOAT of that.
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jrry32
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| DirtyDez wrote: | If Lebron pursued football he'd be an all pro TE. If Moss pursued basketball he wouldn't make the D-League...
>Lebron 10/10 times< |
If Lebron pursued football, he wouldn't make it through the preseason. If Moss pursued basketball, he'd be a 10 time All Star.
Baseless conjecture FTW
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="diamondbull424"] | yupyup wrote: |
Now Randy Moss... a guy at 6'4" with Olympic level speed is freakish athleticism that you'd see from a Usain Bolt type of sprinter. Most sprinters aren't built so tall and length. Moss combines that with incredibly agility and balance. |
Moss does not have olympic class speed and never did. There are 2 guys in the NFL w/ olympic class speed. Jeff Demps who won an olympic silver medal, and RG3 who qualified for the olympics in HS. They are olympic class athletes. Moss was fast, still not as fast Darrell Green in his prime, who is the fastest NFL player I've ever seen. We don't know what Moss actually ran in his prime (only that there is no way in hell it was 4.15 as NBT likes to claim). Lebron has similar measurables to Julius Peppers, and Peppers is probably the biggest freak of an athlete I've ever seen.
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iknowcool
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Posts: 12572
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| CrashMan510 wrote: | | it really is, he's an amazing athlete no doubt but there are a handful of NFL players right now that are just as athletic as him. JPP/Calvin/Navarrow Bowman/Pat Willis/Adrian Peterson ect |
Bowman, Pierre-Paul, and Willis are definitely not as athletic as LeBron James. |
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Superman(DH23) wrote: | | diamondbull424 wrote: |
Now Randy Moss... a guy at 6'4" with Olympic level speed is freakish athleticism that you'd see from a Usain Bolt type of sprinter. Most sprinters aren't built so tall and length. Moss combines that with incredibly agility and balance. |
Moss does not have olympic class speed and never did. There are 2 guys in the NFL w/ olympic class speed. Jeff Demps who won an olympic silver medal, and RG3 who qualified for the olympics in HS. They are olympic class athletes. Moss was fast, still not as fast Darrell Green in his prime, who is the fastest NFL player I've ever seen. We don't know what Moss actually ran in his prime (only that there is no way in hell it was 4.15 as NBT likes to claim). Lebron has similar measurables to Julius Peppers, and Peppers is probably the biggest freak of an athlete I've ever seen. |
I don't think Moss ran 4.1 either, but at 6'4" and a definite ability to run what looks like low 4.2 speed... that's going to be about as close as you'll get to Olympic level speed. Jeff Demps pursued track, Randy Moss didn't.
| Randy Moss wrote: | | As a sophomore in 1992, he ran for the track team and was the West Virginia state champion in the 100 and 200 meters with times of 10.94[4] and 21.95,[5] respectively. This was the only year he competed on the track team. He also played center field for the baseball team. |
Those times aren't really THAT impressive, but when you consider that Moss only ran track one year and was a sophomore that won... and you consider that with another two years of training for track... like a Jeff Demps, he could certainly have dropped the 6 tenths needed to be at Demps level as a senior in HS.
But winning his state championship as a sophomore certainly displays Olympic level athletic potential.
And from what I've seen Demps and RG3 aren't as fast as Moss in his prime. At least not on a football field anyway.
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yupyup
Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 585
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| jrry32 wrote: | | Bohlmann20 wrote: | | yupyup wrote: | | jrry32 wrote: | | RandyMossIsBoss wrote: | | I'm a big fan of Randy Moss (how did you know doe?), and while I think you guys aren't giving him enough credit here, Lebron still takes this one. He is probably the most physically talented athlete of all time, dude is a freak of nature. Moss definitely has more speed, but that's about it, although he takes that by a wide margin, also may have the vertical by a slight margin. Lebron on the other hand is much taller, much longer, much stronger, bigger broad jump, and bigger hands, plus his speed is nothing short of amazing for his height and weight. |
No, he's not.
Lebron's athleticism is so overrated. |
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Oh snap. You're challenging Jrry. There will be blood from ownage here in a few posts. |
There won't be. It's not really worth the time to fight over it. People love Lebron because of the myths about him. There are some myths about Moss too(mainly from NBT) but he's the better athlete when you really think about it.
The thing that makes people love Lebron so much is because of his size. And while he definitely has amazing combination of athleticism at 6'7" 250ish, it's not as amazing as people make it out to be. Moss is definitely in the top 4 of the freakiest athletes who have ever played in the NFL(I'd say the other 3 are Vick, Bo and Calvin but some might mention other players). The thing is that I go the opposite direction than most when it comes to who I think was the freakiest athlete to ever play in the NFL.
To me, that's prime Mike Vick. People love size but if you really think about it, Vick had the most unique and rare skill-set you'll probably ever find in any sport. Lebron is another guy who possesses a skill-set like that but that comes just as much from his basketball skill than it does from his athleticism whereas Vick's more relied on his athleticism than anything else.
Lebron is an amazing athlete, no doubt, but he's not as good as people hype him up to be. He's some 6'8" 270 pounder with 4.4 speed and a 50 inch vertical. |
He is the bolded, don't know why people can't ever understand that. Does he run a 4.4 or have a 50 inch vert? No, but he's very fast (I'd guess in Cleveland he could run something like 4.55-4.59) and his vert reaches the 40's.
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reckless123
Joined: 02 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | Superman(DH23) wrote: | | diamondbull424 wrote: |
Now Randy Moss... a guy at 6'4" with Olympic level speed is freakish athleticism that you'd see from a Usain Bolt type of sprinter. Most sprinters aren't built so tall and length. Moss combines that with incredibly agility and balance. |
Moss does not have olympic class speed and never did. There are 2 guys in the NFL w/ olympic class speed. Jeff Demps who won an olympic silver medal, and RG3 who qualified for the olympics in HS. They are olympic class athletes. Moss was fast, still not as fast Darrell Green in his prime, who is the fastest NFL player I've ever seen. We don't know what Moss actually ran in his prime (only that there is no way in hell it was 4.15 as NBT likes to claim). Lebron has similar measurables to Julius Peppers, and Peppers is probably the biggest freak of an athlete I've ever seen. |
I don't think Moss ran 4.1 either, but at 6'4" and a definite ability to run what looks like low 4.2 speed... that's going to be about as close as you'll get to Olympic level speed. Jeff Demps pursued track, Randy Moss didn't.
| Randy Moss wrote: | | As a sophomore in 1992, he ran for the track team and was the West Virginia state champion in the 100 and 200 meters with times of 10.94[4] and 21.95,[5] respectively. This was the only year he competed on the track team. He also played center field for the baseball team. |
Those times aren't really THAT impressive, but when you consider that Moss only ran track one year and was a sophomore that won... and you consider that with another two years of training for track... like a Jeff Demps, he could certainly have dropped the 6 tenths needed to be at Demps level as a senior in HS.
But winning his state championship as a sophomore certainly displays Olympic level athletic potential.
And from what I've seen Demps and RG3 aren't as fast as Moss in his prime. At least not on a football field anyway. |
you got that information on moss from wikipedia isnt it?
Moss hasnt got olympic speed, c'mon man. Talk about hyperbole.
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