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24isthelaw
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 7885
Location: Where the Patriots are
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 Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Harper41 wrote: |
Aaron Hernandez and Brandon Spikes weren't "low character" players at UF. Spikes was a potential first round pick until his miserable 40 time and the only thing Hernandez did was get caught using a certain substance once. |
There were definitely concerns coming out about Brandon Spikes being certifiably insane. And he still is completely insane - he's just channeled that into football more or less and hasn't done anything stupid.
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green24
Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 47615
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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He's good. Why did the Pats have to trade for him?  |
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RuskieTitan
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 43935
Location: Front lines of Titania
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Good deal for both sides, IMO.
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coors
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 7948
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:27 am Post subject: |
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I like the move for the Pats.. when Talib is healthy and focused he is a very talented DB which will absolutely help the Pats out in their secondary. He's had a few suspensions over his career, including serving one as we speak for failing a DT for Adderall.. hopefully for the Pats bringing him into their organization will turn Talib around when it comes to the off the field stuff..
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goldfishwars
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 11937
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Harper41 wrote: | | goldfishwars wrote: | | Nihc wrote: | | BBando wrote: | | Nefarious Bill wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | Not sure why when the Pats make moves like this, people get excited.
People stated they were geniuses when they traded low picks for Haynesworth and Chad....how did that work out?
This is relatively low risk so its no big deal, but lets hold off before saying this was a smart move just because its the Pats. |
Because considering past success with the likes of Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, and Randy Moss, we have at least broke even with deals such as this one. |
How have you broke even if he hasn't played for you yet? |
Because even if the deal turns out bad, our track record with troubled vets would still be good. |
And supposed low-character draft picks - Aaron Hernandez, Brandon Spikes, Ryan Mallett, Alfonzo Dennard (although probably too early to tell) |
Aaron Hernandez and Brandon Spikes weren't "low character" players at UF. Spikes was a potential first round pick until his miserable 40 time and the only thing Hernandez did was get caught using a certain substance once. |
That’s such a strange statement. If there were no character concerns around Hernandez then he would not have dropped to the 4th round, that’s pretty much the end of discussion. You can’t just say ‘oh yeah, he smoked some weed once, so he fell in the draft’ - that’s a non-argument, GM’s weren’t willing to take a chance on him earlier. It doesn’t matter that they’re kicking themselves now about it. There was a LOT going on with Spikes pre-draft, mental health rumours, the eye gouging stuff. |
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Superman(DH23)
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 19907
Location: Abdi on the sick sig
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Nefarious Bill wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | Not sure why when the Pats make moves like this, people get excited.
People stated they were geniuses when they traded low picks for Haynesworth and Chad....how did that work out?
This is relatively low risk so its no big deal, but lets hold off before saying this was a smart move just because its the Pats. |
Because considering past success with the likes of Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, and Randy Moss, we have at least broke even with deals such as this one. |
Not really, Harrison was never a problem, just a headhunter, which he was w/ NE, Corey Dillon's problems were always about wanting to be on a winner and trying to get out of Cinci, Moss was malcontent when things weren't going his way, and his was again at the end in NE.
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floppyflaps
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 758
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Schiano and Bellichek are friends, so BB definitely knows what he needs to know about Talib. Talib does get himself into trouble off the field, and he does get burned more often than you'd like a #1 corner to.
However he is a great teammate, he never causes trouble and he always helps teammates out. He's out there helping both his fellow CBs and WRs on how to be better. He's dedicated to keeping his body in shape and in watching game film.
If he were a bad teammate and an unmotivated player, then this deal wouldn't have gone through. |
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JaguarCrazy2832
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 91020
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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great deal for TB!
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Superman(DH23) wrote: | | Nefarious Bill wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | Not sure why when the Pats make moves like this, people get excited.
People stated they were geniuses when they traded low picks for Haynesworth and Chad....how did that work out?
This is relatively low risk so its no big deal, but lets hold off before saying this was a smart move just because its the Pats. |
Because considering past success with the likes of Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, and Randy Moss, we have at least broke even with deals such as this one. |
Not really, Harrison was never a problem, just a headhunter, which he was w/ NE, Corey Dillon's problems were always about wanting to be on a winner and trying to get out of Cinci, Moss was malcontent when things weren't going his way, and his was again at the end in NE. |
Dillon is a dirtbag
- Was arrested at age 15 for selling crack cocaine to undercover police and was sentenced to community service, 10 days in a youth center and probation.
- Charged with 7 offenses between 1989 - 1992 in juvenile court and convicted of five, including obstructing a police officer, assault and theft.
- in 1998 was arrested for DUI, negligent driving and driving with a suspended license
- In 2000 he punched his wife in the face and was charged with 4th degree assault
From the book Pros and Cons: The Criminals Who Play in the NFL
Of course, the Pats (and media) played up the "he's a changed man" angle when he was there and then he was busted in 2010 for beating his wife again. |
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sayheykid
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 5442
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| floppyflaps wrote: | | However he is a great teammate, he never causes trouble and he always helps teammates out. |
Right. Nothing screams great teammate like getting popped by the league for abusing prescription drugs. Well, it either screams great teammate or selfish scumbag, but definitely one of the two. I'm sure the rest of the defense found losing their two starting corners very helpful.
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FirstDownFaulk
Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 8152
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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New England was/is thin in the secondary due to injury (this seems to be the case EVERY season) and a lack of consistency. Talib is better in man than he is in zone and he's capable of playing the "money" (on the TE) which makes him a flexible option. Dennard and Cole have shown the ability to play man coverage and I wouldn't be surprised to see them go almost exclusively to just that or cover 1. Where the breakdowns have been occurring is in the cover 2/3 over the intermediate/deep middle.
I'm not so sure that the addition of Talib will have that great of an impact on the defense as much as the direction of the defense itself. I saw more blitzing, and man coverage last week against St. Louis than I have from a Patriots' defense in years.....Talibs' skillset fits that perfectly.
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tylerdouglass
Joined: 21 Dec 2009
Posts: 14168
Location: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.
Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though.
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JammerHammer21
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 39766
Location: Anywhere
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tylerdouglass wrote: | This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.
Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though. |
Maybe, but let's not crown BB for making this move. I'm sure plenty thought he'd change Haynesworth and we saw how that worked out.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 32062
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| tylerdouglass wrote: | This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.
Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though. |
What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?
Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:
Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House
Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them
That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.
I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 33730
Location: Hashtag BirdCity
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| Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mcmurtry86 wrote: | | tylerdouglass wrote: | This is the first time I've seen BB make a move and actually questioned it. A 4th? Wow.
Knowing BB he'll come out looking like a genius though. |
What's greater - the odds of Talib staying mostly clean? or the odds of a mid/low 4th rounder panning out?
Here are the players taken in the 2nd half of the 2011 4th round:
Cecil Shorts
Kendall Hunter
Casey Matthews
James Brewer
Jalil Brown
Delone Carter
Alex Henery
Chris Prosinski
Chris Hairston
Tandon Doss
Owen Marecic
Taiwan Jones
Bilal Powell
Rashad Carmichael
Cortez Allen
Julius Thomas
Jamie Harper
Davon House
Of the bottom 17 2010 4th rounders, only Joe Hawley, Geno Atkins and Clay Harbor have significant starting time and many are either out of football or playing for teams other than the one that drafted them
That's not to say this is a slam dunk for the Pats or an awful deal for the Bucs. But even if Talib is merely "not bad" he represents a massive upgrade over the Pats current CB's. That might be the difference between a deep playoff run and a one-and-done.
I think this is one of those deals where both teams win. Talib might flop in New England but giving up a mid/late 4th rounder for a potential huge upgrade at the team's weakest position is a no-brainer. For the Bucs, changing the culture and getting something for a guy who was going to walk as a free agent in 5 months is a pretty good deal too. |
To be fair, at least for 2010, if you expand it to 20, you start including Dennis Pitta, Aaron Hernandez and Joe McKnight, all who have been contributing to their respective teams, Hernandez and Pitta both as starters (not sure about McKnight). Then of course, the 2nd pick of the 5th round was Kam Chancellor and we know about how well he's been doing.
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