Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Benching Bush
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Miami2DaMax


Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 792
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
You're picking nits Merc.

Bush was not going to turn the Titan game around for us, we were going to lose no matter what RB did. And losing that game didn't cost us the playoffs, we were going to miss that no matter what. Please drop the fake sense of urgency.

Bush got back in the game, so who cares if he missed 1 or 1.5 quarters? I prefer Philbin not show favoritism to any one player, and benching Reggie might have helped to send that message to the team. But as far as Tannehill goes, do you honestly think Philbin should bench him after a couple of interceptions? That would be moronic. He's still very raw, but he's also improving and experience will get him where we want him to be faster than benching him will.

We aren't playing for the 2012 post season. We are playing for the 2013 and/or 2014 post season. Keep developing our key players and keep the culture change moving along.


Listen here oh smart one, you do NOT know that so just stop talking out of your [inappropriate/removed].
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deadeye


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5990
Location: A Nearby Dolphin Encounter
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
You're picking nits Merc.

Bush was not going to turn the Titan game around for us, we were going to lose no matter what RB did. And losing that game didn't cost us the playoffs, we were going to miss that no matter what. Please drop the fake sense of urgency.

Bush got back in the game, so who cares if he missed 1 or 1.5 quarters? I prefer Philbin not show favoritism to any one player, and benching Reggie might have helped to send that message to the team. But as far as Tannehill goes, do you honestly think Philbin should bench him after a couple of interceptions? That would be moronic. He's still very raw, but he's also improving and experience will get him where we want him to be faster than benching him will.

We aren't playing for the 2012 post season. We are playing for the 2013 and/or 2014 post season. Keep developing our key players and keep the culture change moving along.


Urgency? Where do you detect urgency? And no, I never said I thought Philbin should bech Tannehill. I said, if he was truly preaching ball security he would have benched him. Benching Bush was a dumb move. If Bush had been careless with the ball, then fine.

The constant defense of Joe Philbin in this forum is exhausting. Sometimes good coaches make bad calls. In this case, Philbin made a mistake. Bush did nothing to deserve benching. Philbin was trying to sling around his big stick and he did nothing to help the team win by putting in a clearly inferior Daniel Thomas who has just as many fumbles on a lot less carries.
Fair enough, your point about Thomas is correct. I think the FO is going to replace him in the off season. The only reason he's in over Miller right now is that he's better at picking up the blitz. And protecting Tannehill is the most important thing for our RBs right now.
_________________
Earn more sessions by sleeving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deadeye


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5990
Location: A Nearby Dolphin Encounter
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami2DaMax wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
You're picking nits Merc.

Bush was not going to turn the Titan game around for us, we were going to lose no matter what RB did. And losing that game didn't cost us the playoffs, we were going to miss that no matter what. Please drop the fake sense of urgency.

Bush got back in the game, so who cares if he missed 1 or 1.5 quarters? I prefer Philbin not show favoritism to any one player, and benching Reggie might have helped to send that message to the team. But as far as Tannehill goes, do you honestly think Philbin should bench him after a couple of interceptions? That would be moronic. He's still very raw, but he's also improving and experience will get him where we want him to be faster than benching him will.

We aren't playing for the 2012 post season. We are playing for the 2013 and/or 2014 post season. Keep developing our key players and keep the culture change moving along.


Listen here oh smart one, you do NOT know that so just stop talking out of your [inappropriate/removed].
Your right. What was I thinking? Of course Miami will be a strong playoff contender all season long, and if Tannehill develops in time for the playoffs we might make a Super Bowl run.
_________________
Earn more sessions by sleeving.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6809
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really all so simple.

If the HC is preaching all week long that fumbles will not be tolerated & a player fumbles then the HC has to do the right thing in the eyes of the 53 man roster.

You cannot under any circumstances make an exception for Reggie Bush & then turn around & penalize any other player.

How in the Hell can a HC penalize anyone in that locker rm if he is making exceptions.

Do what you say and say what you do.

By the time Tanneyhill & all the other draft pks are peaking simultaneously Reggie Bush will be playing for someone else anyway.

Excellent lesson in accountability & I for one applaud Philbins "team concept".

sug
_________________
# 52


Last edited by SUG on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5578
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
If Philbin was preaching ball security then why didn't Tannehill get benched?


No, it was simply bad coaching. He took our most explosive weapon out of a game would could not afford to lose. If you want to preach ball security then do it consistently. Philbin blew it. Plain and simple. We lost all explosiveness on offense when Bush sat. Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller are not Reggie Bush. Not even close.


I'm not too sure I follow the tannehill analogy. RBs take trips back and forth to the bench all the time. Extending that bench time due to a fumble is common with a coach who is trying to build a fumble free environment.
You only bench QBs for interceptions if its a problem that extends into multiple games. They are two completely different dynamics.

And as far as Bush being our most explosive player, that only means something if he holds onto the ball. Bush has goals that requires touches and the coach sent him a message. I applaud it. You can't win with fumbles.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 6645
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I'm pro-benching here for reasons already stated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaytotha


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 4459
Location: Spokane Valley, Wa
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I am fine with the Benching of Bush(it hurt my fantasy though lol). He fumbled and no player should be held to a higher standard in my opinion.

We also fell behind pretty early where we had to turn to the passing game over the run. Thomas is a better pass blocker than Bush is. Fact is Philbin made the call to make a point and it brought the moral of the team down. Since that play it seemed that no one was playing with heart.
_________________


Adopt a Dolphin: RB Knowshon Moreno

Rushing: 24- 134yds 5.6 Avg 1TD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DOLFAN016


Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 651
Location: Central Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



I'm gonna lighten the mood here a bit. If you wanna know where Reggie's head has been the last couple of weeks, I think I have a guess. Him and his girlfriend are expecting a child and maybe that's running through his head. On a more serious matter, I think he will play very well against the Bills tomorrow night. He seems to excel against them.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mercury22


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12817
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
If Philbin was preaching ball security then why didn't Tannehill get benched?


No, it was simply bad coaching. He took our most explosive weapon out of a game would could not afford to lose. If you want to preach ball security then do it consistently. Philbin blew it. Plain and simple. We lost all explosiveness on offense when Bush sat. Daniel Thomas and Lamar Miller are not Reggie Bush. Not even close.


I'm not too sure I follow the tannehill analogy. RBs take trips back and forth to the bench all the time. Extending that bench time due to a fumble is common with a coach who is trying to build a fumble free environment.
You only bench QBs for interceptions if its a problem that extends into multiple games. They are two completely different dynamics.

And as far as Bush being our most explosive player, that only means something if he holds onto the ball. Bush has goals that requires touches and the coach sent him a message. I applaud it. You can't win with fumbles.


I would guess it is HIGHLY unlikely that Philbin spent the week saying to the team "don't fumble the ball". He probably, almost certainly, said he had zero tolerance for "turnovers" and if you turn it over your sitting. It would be a bit of a stretch for us to assume that he focused solely on the RB's, who, quite honestly, haven't shown a major problem with fumbling. Look, Tannehill has 9 picks to Bush's 2 fumbles. If Philbin is serious about turnovers, he needs to work with Tannehill and avoid batted balls. Which we saw yet again this last weekend. .

Lets call this what it was. This was Philbin attempting to send a message to the entire team about turnovers. He's saying don't turn it over or you won't play. I respect that, but its not possible to adhere to 100%. No team has ever gone the entire season without a turnover. And no coach has benched every player that lost the handle or threw an errant pass. Why? Because its unrealistic. Turnovers are part of the game. You do your best to guard against it and players that have a regular problem with turnovers get put on notice. A zero tolerance policy is, frankly, stupid and never, ever been done in the history of the league.

The benching of Bush only becomes sensible if he has a chronic issue with fumble-itis. Besides one year early in his career he's been pretty great about ball security throughout his career. No more than 2-3 on any given season. It was a fluke on Sunday. Benching your best player for an anomaly is bad coaching.

Beyond that, how well was the message received by the team? We had more turnovers in that game than nearly any other of the season. Its not like the players responded by playing lights out either. Did the guys step up their play in any way? Or is the
_________________
"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 6809
Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell ya what, if any player has a problem with getting benched after fumbling we/us/him should
probably be think about moving on.

Just who in the Hell ...?
I mean really .... complaining about being benched after a fumble !?!?

Don't make me laugh, that's pathetic ... Exclamation

sug
_________________
# 52
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mercury22


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)

Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12817
Location: the 50 yard line
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rodney Harrison had something to say about this as well:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-rodney-harrison-calls-philbin-an-idiot-for-benching-bush-20121113,0,3063579.htmlstory
_________________
"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 6645
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOLFAN016 put things into perspective a bit Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dolphinologist


Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 5578
Location: New York
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:

I would guess it is HIGHLY unlikely that Philbin spent the week saying to the team "don't fumble the ball". He probably, almost certainly, said he had zero tolerance for "turnovers" and if you turn it over your sitting. It would be a bit of a stretch for us to assume that he focused solely on the RB's, who, quite honestly, haven't shown a major problem with fumbling.


Here's the thing about those words in red. When they are used in a statement, I'm stuck. Can't dispute them / Can't co-sign them either.

Mercury22 wrote:

Look, Tannehill has 9 picks to Bush's 2 fumbles.


Again, completely different dynamic. Handing the ball to a RB will always carry the expectations of the safer option to throwing the ball. When a ball carrier fumbles it is usually due to a disregard of technique. John beck was jettisoned from the team with 3 picks. What got him cut is the fumbles.

Mercury22 wrote:

If Philbin is serious about turnovers, he needs to work with Tannehill and avoid batted balls. Which we saw yet again this last weekend.


Hmm, I can't help but think this statement is a tad unfair. Tannehill, coming into that game had thrown a string of passes that where not intercepted. 4 games worth. Hard to acknowledge that fact and still say that Philbin needs to work with him any more than he has already. This is rookie season stuff.

Mercury22 wrote:

Lets call this what it was. This was Philbin attempting to send a message to the entire team about turnovers. He's saying don't turn it over or you won't play. I respect that, but its not possible to adhere to 100%.


And for lack of a better term, he hasn't prosecuted it 100%. This was an isolated scenario. There was no precedent set here. There was no statement that said, nor body language that implied that fumbling is a direct link to the bench for every player every time it occurs.
I'm also sure that if Reggie Bush had a problem with it, he would have given the obligatory, "I'm not the coach" or "It's not for me to say" but he actually co-signed the benching 100%

Mercury22 wrote:

No team has ever gone the entire season without a turnover. And no coach has benched every player that lost the handle or threw an errant pass. Why? Because its unrealistic. Turnovers are part of the game. You do your best to guard against it and players that have a regular problem with turnovers get put on notice. A zero tolerance policy is, frankly, stupid and never, ever been done in the history of the league.


And it wasn't done Sunday. The evidence of the enforcement of "zero tolerance policies" comes in multiple events where the punishment was applied each time. Half way through the season and we can't call this a "zero tolerance policy" by any stretch.

Mercury22 wrote:

The benching of Bush only becomes sensible if he has a chronic issue with fumble-itis. Besides one year early in his career he's been pretty great about ball security throughout his career. No more than 2-3 on any given season. It was a fluke on Sunday. Benching your best player for an anomaly is bad coaching.

Beyond that, how well was the message received by the team? We had more turnovers in that game than nearly any other of the season. Its not like the players responded by playing lights out either. Did the guys step up their play in any way? Or is the


Merc, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but this reads like you have zero tolerance for Philbin. You have expressed concerns from as far back as camp. Forgive me if I've overlooked, but I have not seen you give any credit for the obvious change in this teams culture and the clear cut direction in which he has shown he wants us to go. I think he has to do something spectacular and undeniable for him to get a chance in your eyes.

btw ... posting comments from Rodney Harrison ? he hates the phins. It would have been better if it was Rodney Dangerfield or Harrison Ford.
_________________


Fellow Posters: I beg that you not misunderstand my level of arrogance. My handle is an implication of Dolphin study not necessarily Dolphin expertise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WaterBear56


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 3154
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'ma be hated on for this but... I get that he works hard, so what? The guy has failed to put it on the field. Don't tell me he can when the last time he had a big game was in week 2. He isn't even on pace for a 1000 yards and last year just barely reached the mark. I keep believing he is gonna break one out any game now, but he is just not that impressive and certainly not worth a big time contract like a lot of you believe. His true value is as a receiver and we don't use him enough in that role. Now don't get me wrong, the guy is very likable and I'd love to see him stay in Miami, but this preconceived notion that he is our best player and elite is extremely misled.

I may have been wrong three times in a row, but Bush will have a huge game on the national screen this Thursday.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Miami2DaMax


Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 792
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadeye wrote:
Miami2DaMax wrote:
Deadeye wrote:
You're picking nits Merc.

Bush was not going to turn the Titan game around for us, we were going to lose no matter what RB did. And losing that game didn't cost us the playoffs, we were going to miss that no matter what. Please drop the fake sense of urgency.

Bush got back in the game, so who cares if he missed 1 or 1.5 quarters? I prefer Philbin not show favoritism to any one player, and benching Reggie might have helped to send that message to the team. But as far as Tannehill goes, do you honestly think Philbin should bench him after a couple of interceptions? That would be moronic. He's still very raw, but he's also improving and experience will get him where we want him to be faster than benching him will.

We aren't playing for the 2012 post season. We are playing for the 2013 and/or 2014 post season. Keep developing our key players and keep the culture change moving along.


Listen here oh smart one, you do NOT know that so just stop talking out of your [inappropriate/removed].
Your right. What was I thinking? Of course Miami will be a strong playoff contender all season long, and if Tannehill develops in time for the playoffs we might make a Super Bowl run.


No, you think you're right about [inappropriate/removed] that's impossible to prove, like how Bush wouldn't have made a difference if he wasn't benched....you don't know that.

I hate people like you, no confidence at all and don't say you do because your posting's insulting to Miami fans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Miami Dolphins All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group