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Week 11: Philadelphia Eagles vs Washington Redskins
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

El ramster wrote:
I love you all.. And Won't troll. Didn't know that was trolling really, It was just a convo.

Laughing Laughing

I bug the crap out of my Redskin friend about it and he just sighs.

You guys obviously have hit rock bottom. I told you guys this would happen, Just the amount of Hype one can give there star rookie QB is insane. We went thru this with Sam his rookie year. After an amazing start he fizzled because of Injury and lack of talent on the team.

I believe he had a 4-5 game stretch where he had 11 Td's and 1 pick.

Now the worse is yet to come, The dreaded sophomore season. Stay strong for it will be hell. It's not a guarantee that it will happen.. But it is a possibility, Keep expectations low. You have a good one in your hands..
this is not rock bottom. Everyone in the division is not that much better than us and we are the youngest team with the most talented young qb.

2009- now that was rock bottom my friend! Laughing
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
Funny thing here fellas is that when I was discussing possible alternate QBs to take rather than give up a king's ransom for RG3 those QBs were:

Russell Wilson
Kirk Cousins

and

Nick Foles
Hes pretty good so far for a rookie .


Honestly, calling Russel Wilson at this point is nothing more than hindsight. The kid may have had talent but the size was too great a risk. Nor has he been otherworldly like the Top 3 QB's.
bowilson wanted us to draft him. He wanted us to address other positions and take Wilson in th 3rd. Thai did entertain the thought of these two or drafting Tanehill instead of trading up. the rest of us scoffed at the idea. I give them major props for having that "foresight"! It's not hindsight brian23 if they thought the thought before the draft. Wink

You know, just because you didn't think it was a good idea at the time, doesn't mean it's hindsight for everyone.


Correct. IIRC I acknowledged Wilson's size but stated that he was one of the better passers coming out.

Foles was kinda an "also" for me close to the draft (kinda like plan D). Mostly, I talked about Tannehill, Wilson, Cousins as options other than RG3. But I do remember talking about Foles right before we did the trade with the Rams.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Dashing wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
Funny thing here fellas is that when I was discussing possible alternate QBs to take rather than give up a king's ransom for RG3 those QBs were:

Russell Wilson
Kirk Cousins

and

Nick Foles
Hes pretty good so far for a rookie .


Honestly, calling Russel Wilson at this point is nothing more than hindsight. The kid may have had talent but the size was too great a risk. Nor has he been otherworldly like the Top 3 QB's.
bowilson wanted us to draft him. He wanted us to address other positions and take Wilson in th 3rd. Thai did entertain the thought of these two or drafting Tanehill instead of trading up. the rest of us scoffed at the idea. I give them major props for having that "foresight"! It's not hindsight brian23 if they thought the thought before the draft. Wink

You know, just because you didn't think it was a good idea at the time, doesn't mean it's hindsight for everyone.


Correct. IIRC I acknowledged Wilson's size but stated that he was one of the better passers coming out.

Foles was kinda an "also" for me close to the draft (kinda like plan D). Mostly, I talked about Tannehill, Wilson, Cousins as options other than RG3. But I do remember talking about Foles right before we did the trade with the Rams.
i remember I liked them all, but I loved Luck. I didn't think Griffin would be this good so soon. I didn't think Tanehill was worth an early 1st but I felt if we hadn't traded up for Griffin, and then we passed on Tanheill in round 1 for Blackmon or Claiborne, Tanehill wouldn't be there in round 2 for us.

I loved Weeden but thought the browns took him way, way to early, because of his age I saw him 2nd round at earliest, most likely 3rd. I was worried about Brockwisler because of his height, but I knew he was athletic for his size so that was a plus. Cousins, Foles and Wilson were favorite qbs of mine from college but I saw them all as just backups in The pros, not starters.... Needless to say I was wrong about them. Wilson already is a starter. Foles cold be the eagles future and I think will be. I think we will trade Cousins this offseason or next after he looks good in another preseason and a team loses a starter and will will get a Kolb type deal out of the transaction... Hopefully... Pray

I really liked all the qbs.
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markrc99


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to say it was Mike Lombardi who recently said the Redskins OL has struggled when they're behind on the scoreboard or in known passing situations. After what's transpired during this break it's really important that this team come out & play hard. Whether they can beat Philly right now doesn't matter quite so much. If they look uninspired & are never in it, reports questioning whether Shanahan has lost the locker room will no doubt follow. It'll be interesting to see if anything at all materializes from his supposed eval & potential shakeup. This to me is one of Shanhan's greatest failings. All that talk about the former culture, the youth movement & him even complaining about the impact of the cap penalty. Yet, that core group that accounts for a good chunk of the team's salary was left almost entirely intact!

If it was Shanahan's call to push the $18M cap penalty to next year, it may end up costing him his job. He blew a golden opportunity to use the cap penalty as justification for the release of these players & perhaps even attribute the losing to inexperience. Add Jamaal Brown (his player) and collectively he could've saved $20M or more to spend elsewhere in the offseason! Instead, he has the bloated salaries, the losing & the cap penalty, all of it unresolved. Now, if they do start playing better and these leftovers are a part of it that'll make what he should've done yesterday even more problematic tomorrow. That said, this mess with the cap & the leftovers should remain Shanahan's problem. Whatever's left of the circus act, it makes no sense to bring somebody else in to clean it up.

I see they added CB Buddy Jackson to their PS. Has the tools, but zero experience.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markrc99 wrote:
I want to say it was Mike Lombardi who recently said the Redskins OL has struggled when they're behind on the scoreboard or in known passing situations. After what's transpired during this break it's really important that this team come out & play hard. Whether they can beat Philly right now doesn't matter quite so much. If they look uninspired & are never in it, reports questioning whether Shanahan has lost the locker room will no doubt follow. It'll be interesting to see if anything at all materializes from his supposed eval & potential shakeup. This to me is one of Shanhan's greatest failings. All that talk about the former culture, the youth movement & him even complaining about the impact of the cap penalty. Yet, that core group that accounts for a good chunk of the team's salary was left almost entirely intact!

If it was Shanahan's call to push the $18M cap penalty to next year, it may end up costing him his job. He blew a golden opportunity to use the cap penalty as justification for the release of these players & perhaps even attribute the losing to inexperience. Add Jamaal Brown (his player) and collectively he could've saved $20M or more to spend elsewhere in the offseason! Instead, he has the bloated salaries, the losing & the cap penalty, all of it unresolved. Now, if they do start playing better and these leftovers are a part of it that'll make what he should've done yesterday even more problematic tomorrow. That said, this mess with the cap & the leftovers should remain Shanahan's problem. Whatever's left of the circus act, it makes no sense to bring somebody else in to clean it up.

I see they added CB Buddy Jackson to their PS. Has the tools, but zero experience.
cant really argue most of what you said... But let's be honest here. For the cost of moss after his 2010 near career #s and Fletcher's near career #s last year are fair to both sides at the time and don't you think Snyder wanted them back also? Fletcher is also the team leader. Moss is an important vet to have around for young wrs, he's been through it all in his 10 year career.

Cooley was released and brought back cheap because he knows the offense and as a mentor to Logan and Niles.

J Brown was the biggest mistake in my eyes but that's clear hindsight on everyone in redskins nation. After the 2010 season we didn't just want to lose him and go back to the likes of a Heyer type player at rt. we also have up two draft picks to get Brown, so that could have factored into that.

DHall will be gone after this season. Shan-Allen inherited that mess as they did Haynesworth and this is the first season it will be financially acceptable to cut Hall and I expect him to be gone.

In fact, I don't expect any of these players to be on our roster next year which will help get a few upgrades. Then, hopefully we can get the cap penalty lessened or abolished totally for this year and have some extra $ there to upgrade our roster.

Shan/Allen inherited one of the biggest messes a front office ever had to. For someone to compare this to other teams which were managed well from 05-2009 just simply is not the case. They've done a tremendous job and next year will be the year we truly see all the hard work and their plan pay off!
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the comment re. "pushing the cap penalty" to next year.. I thought it was a straight loss of $18 mill this year and next ..??
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
I don't understand the comment re. "pushing the cap penalty" to next year.. I thought it was a straight loss of $18 mill this year and next ..??


They could have chose to absorb the 36 million in one season, but then if they won an appeal, you would not see that money again. This way, if there is any reduction, or the remaining penalty is scrapped, it can be accomplished.

Santana Moss, London Fletcher and Jammal Brown were/are all needed as veterans during the transition. There are too many young players with potential on this team to leave them on their own in the locker room.
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RSkinGM


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I don't understand the comment re. "pushing the cap penalty" to next year.. I thought it was a straight loss of $18 mill this year and next ..??


They could have chose to absorb the 36 million in one season, but then if they won an appeal, you would not see that money again. This way, if there is any reduction, or the remaining penalty is scrapped, it can be accomplished.

Santana Moss, London Fletcher and Jammal Brown were/are all needed as veterans during the transition. There are too many young players with potential on this team to leave them on their own in the locker room.


Oh yeah-- I do seem to remember reading that .. so it looks like Shanny's 5th season.. he will have cap space and zero excuses.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
RSkinGM wrote:
I don't understand the comment re. "pushing the cap penalty" to next year.. I thought it was a straight loss of $18 mill this year and next ..??


They could have chose to absorb the 36 million in one season, but then if they won an appeal, you would not see that money again. This way, if there is any reduction, or the remaining penalty is scrapped, it can be accomplished.

Santana Moss, London Fletcher and Jammal Brown were/are all needed as veterans during the transition. There are too many young players with potential on this team to leave them on their own in the locker room.


Oh yeah-- I do seem to remember reading that .. so it looks like Shanny's 5th season.. he will have cap space and zero excuses.
yep! Super Bowl or bust baby! Laughing Wink
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/11/15/jim-haslett-hopes-one-on-one-meetings-with-defensive-backs-sparks-improvement/

Hasslet had one on one meeting with DBs over the bye week hoping it sparks improvement, communication and clarity in what they need to do and where they need to improve.

Quote:
Asked about the meetings on Thursday, Haslett, whose unit ranks 30th in the league against the pass, said, "We did a lot of that, talked to guys about what we expect from them, what we've got, but not on a consistent basis. I think we got our point across I think they understand where we're at and where they're at and hopefully it pays off."

"You address the problems when you have it, if you have an issue," Haslett said. "This was good timing, that's all. It was just good timing to talk to some individuals and groups."

Cornerback Denagelo Hall said he and his fellow defensive backs came away from an improved sense of clarity and idea of what they need to do to improve.

"Hopefully you'll see it. Hopefully you'll see it this week," Hall had said on Wednesday. "You'll see it through the rest of this season."

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lavar703


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
markrc99 wrote:
I want to say it was Mike Lombardi who recently said the Redskins OL has struggled when they're behind on the scoreboard or in known passing situations. After what's transpired during this break it's really important that this team come out & play hard. Whether they can beat Philly right now doesn't matter quite so much. If they look uninspired & are never in it, reports questioning whether Shanahan has lost the locker room will no doubt follow. It'll be interesting to see if anything at all materializes from his supposed eval & potential shakeup. This to me is one of Shanhan's greatest failings. All that talk about the former culture, the youth movement & him even complaining about the impact of the cap penalty. Yet, that core group that accounts for a good chunk of the team's salary was left almost entirely intact!

If it was Shanahan's call to push the $18M cap penalty to next year, it may end up costing him his job. He blew a golden opportunity to use the cap penalty as justification for the release of these players & perhaps even attribute the losing to inexperience. Add Jamaal Brown (his player) and collectively he could've saved $20M or more to spend elsewhere in the offseason! Instead, he has the bloated salaries, the losing & the cap penalty, all of it unresolved. Now, if they do start playing better and these leftovers are a part of it that'll make what he should've done yesterday even more problematic tomorrow. That said, this mess with the cap & the leftovers should remain Shanahan's problem. Whatever's left of the circus act, it makes no sense to bring somebody else in to clean it up.

I see they added CB Buddy Jackson to their PS. Has the tools, but zero experience.
cant really argue most of what you said... But let's be honest here. For the cost of moss after his 2010 near career #s and Fletcher's near career #s last year are fair to both sides at the time and don't you think Snyder wanted them back also? Fletcher is also the team leader. Moss is an important vet to have around for young wrs, he's been through it all in his 10 year career.

Cooley was released and brought back cheap because he knows the offense and as a mentor to Logan and Niles.

J Brown was the biggest mistake in my eyes but that's clear hindsight on everyone in redskins nation. After the 2010 season we didn't just want to lose him and go back to the likes of a Heyer type player at rt. we also have up two draft picks to get Brown, so that could have factored into that.

DHall will be gone after this season. Shan-Allen inherited that mess as they did Haynesworth and this is the first season it will be financially acceptable to cut Hall and I expect him to be gone.

In fact, I don't expect any of these players to be on our roster next year which will help get a few upgrades. Then, hopefully we can get the cap penalty lessened or abolished totally for this year and have some extra $ there to upgrade our roster.

Shan/Allen inherited one of the biggest messes a front office ever had to. For someone to compare this to other teams which were managed well from 05-2009 just simply is not the case. They've done a tremendous job and next year will be the year we truly see all the hard work and their plan pay off!


And unfortunately they added to that mess. McNabb and Brown ended up being horrible trades that cost us valuable rebuilding chips. And while hindsight is always 20/20 not taking JJ Watt is looking really stupid now. In reality I was wrong and you were right Turtle about both the Brown and McNabb trades, we should've kept Campbell and developed a younger RT.
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markrc99


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
They could have chose to absorb the 36 million in one season, but then if they won an appeal, you would not see that money again. This way, if there is any reduction, or the remaining penalty is scrapped, it can be accomplished. Santana Moss, London Fletcher and Jammal Brown were/are all needed as veterans during the transition. There are too many young players with potential on this team to leave them on their own in the locker room.

I'm curious, can you explain how the same dismissed appeal will even be considered, let alone yield a different result come next year? I'm not saying the league was right, but what aspect of the situation don't they already know or understand? If a team's payroll is under the cap at the end of any given year, that difference is added to their cap the following year. That's a league-wide rule, part of the new CBA & completely separate from the restriction the Redskins are dealing with. Whatever amount they come in under this year, it will in fact be added to their available cap space next year! If for some reason the restriction were to be lifted, that would increase the amount they could spend all the more.

With Cooley's initial contract, the collective amount we're talking about exceeds $20M. Besides him, if the team had parted with Moss, De' Hall, Doughty, Brown & Fletcher, their record would be what right now, 0-9? I think they'd be about where they are. Consider the approach the Colts took. All those guys they let go, they had helped that team win games, a lot of games! That's what Shanahan needed to do. turtle's point that Snyder may have had a part in all this is probably true.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
markrc99 wrote:
I want to say it was Mike Lombardi who recently said the Redskins OL has struggled when they're behind on the scoreboard or in known passing situations. After what's transpired during this break it's really important that this team come out & play hard. Whether they can beat Philly right now doesn't matter quite so much. If they look uninspired & are never in it, reports questioning whether Shanahan has lost the locker room will no doubt follow. It'll be interesting to see if anything at all materializes from his supposed eval & potential shakeup. This to me is one of Shanhan's greatest failings. All that talk about the former culture, the youth movement & him even complaining about the impact of the cap penalty. Yet, that core group that accounts for a good chunk of the team's salary was left almost entirely intact!

If it was Shanahan's call to push the $18M cap penalty to next year, it may end up costing him his job. He blew a golden opportunity to use the cap penalty as justification for the release of these players & perhaps even attribute the losing to inexperience. Add Jamaal Brown (his player) and collectively he could've saved $20M or more to spend elsewhere in the offseason! Instead, he has the bloated salaries, the losing & the cap penalty, all of it unresolved. Now, if they do start playing better and these leftovers are a part of it that'll make what he should've done yesterday even more problematic tomorrow. That said, this mess with the cap & the leftovers should remain Shanahan's problem. Whatever's left of the circus act, it makes no sense to bring somebody else in to clean it up.

I see they added CB Buddy Jackson to their PS. Has the tools, but zero experience.
cant really argue most of what you said... But let's be honest here. For the cost of moss after his 2010 near career #s and Fletcher's near career #s last year are fair to both sides at the time and don't you think Snyder wanted them back also? Fletcher is also the team leader. Moss is an important vet to have around for young wrs, he's been through it all in his 10 year career.

Cooley was released and brought back cheap because he knows the offense and as a mentor to Logan and Niles.

J Brown was the biggest mistake in my eyes but that's clear hindsight on everyone in redskins nation. After the 2010 season we didn't just want to lose him and go back to the likes of a Heyer type player at rt. we also have up two draft picks to get Brown, so that could have factored into that.

DHall will be gone after this season. Shan-Allen inherited that mess as they did Haynesworth and this is the first season it will be financially acceptable to cut Hall and I expect him to be gone.

In fact, I don't expect any of these players to be on our roster next year which will help get a few upgrades. Then, hopefully we can get the cap penalty lessened or abolished totally for this year and have some extra $ there to upgrade our roster.

Shan/Allen inherited one of the biggest messes a front office ever had to. For someone to compare this to other teams which were managed well from 05-2009 just simply is not the case. They've done a tremendous job and next year will be the year we truly see all the hard work and their plan pay off!


And unfortunately they added to that mess. McNabb and Brown ended up being horrible trades that cost us valuable rebuilding chips. And while hindsight is always 20/20 not taking JJ Watt is looking really stupid now. In reality I was wrong and you were right Turtle about both the Brown and McNabb trades, we should've kept Campbell and developed a younger RT.
well I was for the Mcnabb trade once it happened but I definitely thought we should have kept Jason before we traded for Mcnabb. E and Thai were definitely against getting Mcnabb before, during and after.

I can't remember how I felt about the brown trade. I think at the time I thought it was good but I was definitely worried about the hip and if he'd ever be right again. It's clear there was a reason the saints had Brown on the trading block and not Bushrod. They knew he'd never be 100% again, we were desperate and took the bait.

I'd say my opinions are partly 20/20. I definitely wish we kept Campbell and the draft picks in 2010 though. he competing with rex woud have been just fine for the rebuild. I wanted that in feb/march and I wanted to trade Haynesworth back to the titans. If we had done that in 2010 this would have been our draft:

1st: TWill
2nd: Nate Allen
4th: Riley
5th: Adam Carriker via trade w/Stl
6th: Dennis Morris
7th: Erik Cook
7th: Selvish Capers

Would have turned out to be a good draft

2011:

1st: Kerrigan
2nd: Jenkins
3rd: Martez Wilson
3rd: Hankerson
4th: Luke Stocker
4th: Roy Helu
5th: dejon Gomes
5th: Niles Paul
6th: Evan Royster
6th: Aldrick Robinson
7th: Brandyn Thompson
7th: Maurice Hurt
7th: Markus White
7th: Chris Neild

Wow! What a draft 2011 would have been! Very Happy Shocked

Moral of the story/lessons of the last decade are keep your draft picks! Build through the draft. Missing on a draft pick hurts, but trading the pick, giving that player a big contract only to have that player not work out is an utter disaster!!
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footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markrc99 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
They could have chose to absorb the 36 million in one season, but then if they won an appeal, you would not see that money again. This way, if there is any reduction, or the remaining penalty is scrapped, it can be accomplished. Santana Moss, London Fletcher and Jammal Brown were/are all needed as veterans during the transition. There are too many young players with potential on this team to leave them on their own in the locker room.

I'm curious, can you explain how the same dismissed appeal will even be considered, let alone yield a different result come next year? I'm not saying the league was right, but what aspect of the situation don't they already know or understand? If a team's payroll is under the cap at the end of any given year, that difference is added to their cap the following year. That's a league-wide rule, part of the new CBA & completely separate from the restriction the Redskins are dealing with. Whatever amount they come in under this year, it will in fact be added to their available cap space next year! If for some reason the restriction were to be lifted, that would increase the amount they could spend all the more.

With Cooley's initial contract, the collective amount we're talking about exceeds $20M. Besides him, if the team had parted with Moss, De' Hall, Doughty, Brown & Fletcher, their record would be what right now, 0-9? I think they'd be about where they are. Consider the approach the Colts took. All those guys they let go, they had helped that team win games, a lot of games! That's what Shanahan needed to do. turtle's point that Snyder may have had a part in all this is probably true.


Hypothetically, if they won last off-seasons appeal but had already paid the 36MM penalty they wouldn't get any of that money back. Since they have yet to pay the remainder of the penalty, they do have a chance to forego the payment if they win an appeal of some form either within the circle of owners, or through the courts. If they win and get to forego the 18 million, then that's great, but the NFL will not reverse the cap penalty from the previous year.

They had no choice but to defer the total hit of the penalty because the team needs Pierre Garcon, Josh Morgan, Cedric Griffin, London Fletcher, Jammal Brown, Sleepy Fred and Adam Carriker (yes, I see the irony with the last three but you cannot predict injuries unless it's Bob Sanders or Jahvid Best).

They still managed to save money by doing it this way, and showing that they want to compete this year and in following years by signing those veterans.

So, to reiterate, if they had paid the full 36MM and avoided re-signing Fletcher, Sleepy, Carriker, C.Griffin and J.Brown, and avoided signing Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan, not only would they have thrown the rookies into the cage before they were ready (ruining the development of many of their youngsters in the process), they would be pitiful and would hand over one of the top picks in the draft to St. Louis.

They got their QB, they have to inject the team with talent in a multitude of ways, and that includes keeping players like Moss, Fletcher, Doughty and DeHall.
___________________________________________________

To go further, because this deserves a rant...

You need veterans on your team, and if you acquire them via free agency, they will be more expensive, naturally. This team already lacks veteran leadership as is, and you think it would have been wise to forego re-signing their leaders?

- Who do you think is teaching/mentoring Perry Riley, Lorenzo Alexander and Keenan Robinson? Do you think they would be the same players they are this year and next without Fletcher's help?
- Who do you think is mentoring DeJon Gomes? Gomes struggled at the beginning of the season, and the defense has performed better with Doughty as the starter.
- Do you think that Jammal Brown has had zero impact on Trent Williams, even when T-Will has said that Jammal Brown reached out to him in his senior season?

For as much flack as Moss and DeAngelo get, they are valuable and DeAngelo's expected release is purely attitude and cap savings (due to the cap penalty). The secondary without DeHall and the receiving position (as it currently is) without Moss would be abominable. Players need veterans to show them the way, very few can get by with position coaches only as there is a question of receptivity.
_____________________________________________________

As for the Colts, I still see Reggie Wayne, Antoine Bethea, Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, who are all very talented players. Luck has stared down Reggie Wayne many a time, as much as Cutler with Brandon Marshall. If Garcon is healthy, this team is significantly better - yes, a go-to receiver is that much of a difference and if the Redskins wanted to absorb all 36MM, they would not have theirs.

Sorry if I dismissed your post, but quite frankly this idea that comes up every now and again that the team would have been better off letting all their free agents walk and not signing anyone is pure folly. Any GM, and I was watching Dean Lombardi (LA Kings) yesterday so I can cite that, will tell you that you need young players to push the veterans and talented veterans to show the young guys how to work and how to perform in games. If you let go of your leadership and veteran presence, you can forget about properly developing your team for the long-haul.

If you want to develop your young talent, and you have a lot of such players, you have to include veterans into the mix. If you do not, they will be what the Chiefs are but worse.
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markrc99


Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Shan/Allen inherited one of the biggest messes a front office ever had to. For someone to compare this to other teams which were managed well from 05-2009 just simply is not the case. They've done a tremendous job and next year will be the year we truly see all the hard work and their plan pay off!

I agree with your initial point & hope your right about the future. I too was a Jason Campbell supporter. He's starting this week for Chicago. But once again, he's in a different system, different personnel and getting his first start out in San Francisco against that 49er defense. That's destined to end 30-0. Well, maybe their defense will score some more, a return and a safety. Maybe 21-9 is more likely. Point is, I still don't believe that Campbell was the problem in Washington. I liked McNabb, but again, I knew the QB wasn't what was wrong & McNabb was older. I felt the changing systems, a real lack of speed at the skill positions and no protection were the bigger problems. Later it was reported that he [McNabb] was never meant to be the solution but rather the bridge to the guy they really wanted. But that still begs the question, why did they give up so much for a guy who's role was that of a short-term journeyman? And to a division rival no less.

So for me, a pro-bowl RT made a lot of sense. Many fans had the team addressing RT in the 2012 draft. I didn't believe it because I bought all that crap about Brown coming back. He spent much of the offseason at the team's facility, working with the medical & training staff. Shanahan repeatedly expressed confidence that he was in better shape, experiencing greater flexibility than ever before. It was all BS and I believed every word. They were confident he was near 100% & yet he didn't even make it through a second day of practice! I couldn't believe it. I thought, how could the entire staff be so wrong when the existing circumstance hadn't clearly been resolved? What made them believe he was ready? Brown's say so, his yoga sessions? Now, hindsight can explain away bringing Brown in. But it cannot explain what was known & should've at the very least, been considered this past offseason. Later on, Shanahan even said that Brown had to play to make the team... what happened to that?

That said, Allen & Shanahan have done a lot of things right. Stability is really important and unless Shanahan has lost the locker room completely, I would prefer that they bring him back. This half-hearted break with the past and the cap restriction are issues that will resolve themselves. Rather than subject a new coach to old problems, let this stuff go out with Shanahan.
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