| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Vikefan79
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 25134
Location: Atlanta
|
 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
|
Andre Reed doesn't deserve enshrinement into the HOF.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Brian23
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 5084
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| bungleodeon wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: | | BillsGuy82 wrote: | | Andre Reed and Michael Strahan are locks.. Larry Allen as well |
Not over Cris Carter. Carter is a better receiver. |
I agree he is better, but this is the NFL HOF we're talking about. A lot of the time there is no rhyme or reason to who they put in ahead of who they keep out. Remember, Art Monk was put into the Hall the same year Cris Carter was first put on the ballot. There's no doubt Carter was a better WR than Monk as well, but that didn't change the fact that Monk went in and Carter is looking at his 6th year. |
Cept Monk was Jerry before Jerry. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bungleodeon
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 7879
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| mse326 wrote: | | redsoxsuck05 wrote: | | Is there really an explanation for Strahan NOT getting into the HOF? |
In general? No.
On first ballot? Yes
Part of that revolves around other eligibles and this first year class. I think Ogden and Allen both deserve it over Strahan, and I find it difficult to imagine them doing 3 1st ballot guys when there is such a backlog.
The other part is precedent. Doleman took a while to get in. Too long in my opinion. I'm not sure what would make Strahan that much better a candidate than him.
But there is no doubt he will be in the hall within the next 3 years. |
Single season sack record, super bowl champion, final career game winning a SB against the undefeated Pats where everyone and their mother was talking about how the defensive line was the reason why the unstopable Pats offense fell short.
Strahan has also been a class act and huge name since he left the game. I love his chances of being a first ballot HoFer.
_________________
Adopt-a-Brown: Jabaal Sheard - Stats:
2011: 55 Tackles - 8.5 Sacks - 5 FF - 1 FR - 2 PD - 7 STF
2012: 54 Tackles - 7 Sacks - 1 FF - 3 PD - 2 STF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bungleodeon
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 7879
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Brian23 wrote: | | bungleodeon wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: | | BillsGuy82 wrote: | | Andre Reed and Michael Strahan are locks.. Larry Allen as well |
Not over Cris Carter. Carter is a better receiver. |
I agree he is better, but this is the NFL HOF we're talking about. A lot of the time there is no rhyme or reason to who they put in ahead of who they keep out. Remember, Art Monk was put into the Hall the same year Cris Carter was first put on the ballot. There's no doubt Carter was a better WR than Monk as well, but that didn't change the fact that Monk went in and Carter is looking at his 6th year. |
Cept Monk was Jerry before Jerry. |
wth are you talking about? He wasn't even close to the best WR of his era before Rice came along, nor was he the 2nd best WR with Rice in the picture. James Lofton? Steve Largent? Hell, Henry Ellard deserved to be in the HoF over Monk. there, I said it. Monk is about as deserving as Stanley Morgan or Harold Jackson.
_________________
Adopt-a-Brown: Jabaal Sheard - Stats:
2011: 55 Tackles - 8.5 Sacks - 5 FF - 1 FR - 2 PD - 7 STF
2012: 54 Tackles - 7 Sacks - 1 FF - 3 PD - 2 STF |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mco65
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 534
Location: US
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
geez.
Anyone who thinks Art Monk doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and is comparable to Henry Ellard never saw Monk play, or Ellard for that matter.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7DnBrnc53
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 1277
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| bungleodeon wrote: | | Badger75 wrote: | Warren Sapp
Karl Mecklenberg
Andre Reed
Dave Robinson
Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Steve Atwater
Morten Anderson |
Steve Atwater: His numbers just aren't very special, and with Lynch and A. Williams stealing votes for DB's, he's not going to get in. He's never been a finalist.
|
What stats are you talking about? Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think that Atwater leads all safeties in tackles. He made eight Pro Bowls, and he was on the 90's All-Decade team. That is enough.
Is it INT's? That stat is overrated. You can be some zone player like Paul Krause and get a lot of INT's because you play against mediocre QB's and behind the Purple People Eaters. Does that make you better than Atwater? Heck no. Atwater was a much bigger force than Krause was, and Krause is in the Hall. Atwater is much more deserving. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mco65
Joined: 04 Feb 2011
Posts: 534
Location: US
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
I love it when fans come along and bang on players they never saw play..
Prop up Steve Atwater all you want but do you have to bang on a guy like Paul Krause just to make Atwater look better? honestly..
Krause is in the HOF because he belongs there.. he was the BEST free safety in the league during his tenure as 8 PRO Bowl selections indicate... not to mention a career leading 81 interceptions!
If you want to argue Atwater's selection to the HOF go ahead but if he is that great, you shouldn't need to drag another HOF player through the mud to prove you point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lionslicer
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 1759
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| mco65 wrote: | geez.
Anyone who thinks Art Monk doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame and is comparable to Henry Ellard never saw Monk play, or Ellard for that matter.. |
Monk was a great player, but he happened to play when a lot of great players were playing.
There was really only a small window when he truly was one of the best receivers in the league, the majority of his career, he was just very good. HOF is more about being the best of your peers at the position, not just being very good.
_________________
Kickers are people too |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 13530
Location: LORK on the sig
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| bungleodeon wrote: | | mse326 wrote: | | redsoxsuck05 wrote: | | Is there really an explanation for Strahan NOT getting into the HOF? |
In general? No.
On first ballot? Yes
Part of that revolves around other eligibles and this first year class. I think Ogden and Allen both deserve it over Strahan, and I find it difficult to imagine them doing 3 1st ballot guys when there is such a backlog.
The other part is precedent. Doleman took a while to get in. Too long in my opinion. I'm not sure what would make Strahan that much better a candidate than him.
But there is no doubt he will be in the hall within the next 3 years. |
Single season sack record, super bowl champion, final career game winning a SB against the undefeated Pats where everyone and their mother was talking about how the defensive line was the reason why the unstopable Pats offense fell short.
Strahan has also been a class act and huge name since he left the game. I love his chances of being a first ballot HoFer. |
Superbowl Champ and that being his last game are irrelevant. They don't look at that for non skil position guys.
Single season sack record many look at with an asterisk due to Favre just laying down.
Even if this makes him a better candidate, it doesn't make him "THAT" much better that he is first ballot while Doleman had to wait more than 5 years.
And more of the central point he said is there an argument. The answer is clearly yes. There is an argument for him not to be first ballot.
Is there a chance he is? Sure. Is decent chance? Probably. But I'd say it's less than 50%
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nugpimpen
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 12166
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Strahan should definitely get in
_________________
| hornbybrown wrote: | | We also have the highest amount per capita of Jedi in New Zealand. I'm one. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
UofMfan909
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 22748
Location: Michigan
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| mse326 wrote: | | bungleodeon wrote: | | mse326 wrote: | | redsoxsuck05 wrote: | | Is there really an explanation for Strahan NOT getting into the HOF? |
In general? No.
On first ballot? Yes
Part of that revolves around other eligibles and this first year class. I think Ogden and Allen both deserve it over Strahan, and I find it difficult to imagine them doing 3 1st ballot guys when there is such a backlog.
The other part is precedent. Doleman took a while to get in. Too long in my opinion. I'm not sure what would make Strahan that much better a candidate than him.
But there is no doubt he will be in the hall within the next 3 years. |
Single season sack record, super bowl champion, final career game winning a SB against the undefeated Pats where everyone and their mother was talking about how the defensive line was the reason why the unstopable Pats offense fell short.
Strahan has also been a class act and huge name since he left the game. I love his chances of being a first ballot HoFer. |
Superbowl Champ and that being his last game are irrelevant. They don't look at that for non skil position guys.
Single season sack record many look at with an asterisk due to Favre just laying down.
Even if this makes him a better candidate, it doesn't make him "THAT" much better that he is first ballot while Doleman had to wait more than 5 years.
And more of the central point he said is there an argument. The answer is clearly yes. There is an argument for him not to be first ballot.
Is there a chance he is? Sure. Is decent chance? Probably. But I'd say it's less than 50% |
I think Strahan gets in. Playing in New York his whole career made him a huge name and those are the types who usually get in first ballot. He's still very famous as an analyst, so I am pretty confident he gets enshrined first ballot. Definitely a decent chance he has to wait a little bit, though.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brian23
Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 5084
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| bungleodeon wrote: | | Brian23 wrote: | | bungleodeon wrote: | | vikingsrule wrote: | | BillsGuy82 wrote: | | Andre Reed and Michael Strahan are locks.. Larry Allen as well |
Not over Cris Carter. Carter is a better receiver. |
I agree he is better, but this is the NFL HOF we're talking about. A lot of the time there is no rhyme or reason to who they put in ahead of who they keep out. Remember, Art Monk was put into the Hall the same year Cris Carter was first put on the ballot. There's no doubt Carter was a better WR than Monk as well, but that didn't change the fact that Monk went in and Carter is looking at his 6th year. |
Cept Monk was Jerry before Jerry. |
wth are you talking about? He wasn't even close to the best WR of his era before Rice came along, nor was he the 2nd best WR with Rice in the picture. James Lofton? Steve Largent? Hell, Henry Ellard deserved to be in the HoF over Monk. there, I said it. Monk is about as deserving as Stanley Morgan or Harold Jackson. |
It couldn't have anything to do with having the records before Jerry came along. Or playing on a heavily run dominant team and putting up numbers before anyone else. Or even having a secondary WR who had numbers compareable to HOF Michael Irvin.
Nah, he was trash. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7DnBrnc53
Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 1277
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| mco65 wrote: | I love it when fans come along and bang on players they never saw play..
Prop up Steve Atwater all you want but do you have to bang on a guy like Paul Krause just to make Atwater look better? honestly..
Krause is in the HOF because he belongs there.. he was the BEST free safety in the league during his tenure as 8 PRO Bowl selections indicate... not to mention a career leading 81 interceptions!
If you want to argue Atwater's selection to the HOF go ahead but if he is that great, you shouldn't need to drag another HOF player through the mud to prove you point. |
Maybe I was too hard on Krause. He was a good player.
However, people tend to judge DB's solely on INT's, and that is wrong. Atwater was more dynamic than Krause, has the most tackles for a safety all-time, and has the other credentials you need, like Pro Bowls and being part of an All-Decade team. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sp6488
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 6230
Location: MD
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| mse326 wrote: | | redsoxsuck05 wrote: | | Is there really an explanation for Strahan NOT getting into the HOF? |
In general? No.
On first ballot? Yes
Part of that revolves around other eligibles and this first year class. I think Ogden and Allen both deserve it over Strahan, and I find it difficult to imagine them doing 3 1st ballot guys when there is such a backlog.
The other part is precedent. Doleman took a while to get in. Too long in my opinion. I'm not sure what would make Strahan that much better a candidate than him.
But there is no doubt he will be in the hall within the next 3 years. |
I understand your point, but I disagree with this selection method. I believe that every year, each player's candidacy should be weighed on its own merit, thus the 5 most deserving candidates should get in during a given year regardless of who is being blocked/backlogged. Just because someone has been waiting a few years doesn't mean they should get preference over a newly-eligible player if that player has a better resume. My opinion on the matter.
_________________
| Tzimisce wrote: | I'm sorry you're drowning in a sea of delusion.
I won't be sorry when the Ravens finish 8-8. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41476
Location: Dallas, TX
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
If LA isn't a first ballot HOF'er, I'd be shocked. Probably one of the Top 3 offensive lineman in the history of the game and he played 3 or 4 of the 5 spots at an All-Pro level
_________________
Ware Stat Tracker: 27 Pressures, 9 Hits, 10 sacks, 4 FF, 7 TFL (thru 8 games) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
