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An overview of our drafts - Could we have fixed QB/OL?

 
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khodder


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Joined: 19 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: An overview of our drafts - Could we have fixed QB/OL? Reply with quote

I had posted this as a reply in a thread, but I feel it deserves to be bought to attention here

Here is the thing with Ken, people talk about how we should have drafted a QB or OL higher so that we could develop offensively.

But it is not always as simple as it seems on the surface.

2007 - First Whis draft, had a second year QB in Matt Leainrt and Kurt Warner there as a backup too. Desperately needed offensive line and had our big time Free Agent acquisition Edgerrin James coming off an 1100+ yard season.

We went our there and we got out Left Tackle, QB was never in the picture in this draft. It just so happens that 2007 is one of the weaker first rounds in a while. There were some elite players (Thomas, Johnson, Peterson), but ~50% of that first round were/are flat busts.

2008 - Coming off an 8-8 year and the amazing finish Kurt had coming down the stretch after the Leinart injury we were looking in a solid position offensively. The OL had played pretty well our team sack percentage was good for 7th equal in the league. Edge James had another 1200 yards (Albeit at 3.8 YPC) big issue was our terrible, terrible pass defense. We still had a third year QB on the roster at this stage as our backup plan for Kurt.

A lot of us wanted Mendenhall at 16, but we went with the Cornerback to help us with out terrible pass defense, we then drafted a talented pass rusher in the second round, again the held our terrible pass defense. Nobody was too worried about our explosive offense that was putting up big points.

2009 - Coming off a Superbowl berth and another stellar Kurt Warner system QB was a bit off the radar, however this could have been a good time to bring in a QB if Ken and staff we not big on Matt (As it turned out they weren't) our running game flailed its way to just over 1100 yards total. Edge James hit a wall, Tim Hightower was not great and JJ Arrington was the third string guy. Interior offensive line might have been a goer. Our offensive line was 7th in the NFL in sack percantage (Levi Brown and Mike Gandy playing OK-Good ball at the tackle spots) where they were so often put on an island.

Back end of the first round we picked up a "falling" Beanie Wells. With the poor performance of our running game this was understanable, but what could we have done to maybe help the interior OL, or find a future QB and ride Tim Hightower on the ground.

So who could we have gone for. Next few QB's drafted - Pat White (2) Stephen McGee (4), we could have looked at Andy Levitre (2) as a Guard, but really overall most of us were quite Happy with the Wells selection.

We then picked up Busty McBusterson Cody Brown in the second round and coming off a season with 31 sacks with nobody over 5 we needed some pass rush. We could argue till the cows come home whether Cody was the right pick (Over the next two DE's selected Michael Johnson and Matt Shaughnessy) but the bototm line is I think everyone liked the pass rusher pick at the time. We then went on to pick two Guards in the last three rounds, neither stuck, but wer realised we needed to put some more bodies in the mix on the interior of the OL

2010 - Coming off a huge playoff win and then a deflating loss with Leinart playing much of the game the following week. Kurt's retirement put us in the spot to either go with Matt or draft a replacement. Defense was still a huge issue (with the 80+ points given up in the playoffs) We ranked 25th in YPA allowed on the ground and were 11th in NY/A allowed in the pasing game, I.E our 2008 investment in a CB and pass rusher in the top two rounds was paying off, but our run D was still suffering. Our Running offense however for the first time in a long time was looking very efficient and functioning well with the Wells/Hightower combination. 800 yards at 4.5 from Wells, 600 yards at 4.2 from Hightower interior OL of Wells/Sendlein/Lutui looked damn good.

**Note this is the offseason our OL plans went kaput, we lost out two best offensive linemen this season (Wells and Gandy) all in the anme of moving Levi to LT and bringing in Alan Faneca, who was behind these moves I don't know, I would assume Ken had a large part to do with it, but this was still around the time Russ had significant voice in personnel decisions**

**Note we also lost both Anquan Boldin and Karlos Dansby this offseason, but we had a solid WR corps with Early Doucet ready to step up**

So heading into the draft we could have used upgrades at one tackle spot (Gandy injury) Quarterback (Leinart uncertainty) Run defense (Nose Tackle, Inside Linebacker)

We went out and drafted Dan Williams at the nose (Which everyone loved), OT's available at that spot. Roger Saffold, who was thought of as a guard Zane Beadles, Vlad Ducasse, a whole heaping helping of crap. What QB's were there? Next QB drafted was Jimmy Clausen in the 2nd round, Colt McCoy in the third round, Mike Kafka in the 4th and then JOHN SKELTON in the 5th. Skelton was the fourth QB picked after the 1st round and the 6th in the entire draft. We knew we needed a QB to fight for a spot, but there was none really available at our picks (Same story as the year previous)

We the traded up to get Daryl Washington (Who dislikes that now) in the 2nd round.

Some would says that was a great first two rounds for us, we got two impact players on our defense and di not pass on any talent at the QB/OT spots that we wanted to fill.

2011 - We know what happened, onto the draft. We needed QB help, we needed OL help. We picked Patrick Peterson at 5th overall. Would you rather we drafted Locker, Gabbert or Ponder? Nate Solder at 5? Tyron Smith at 5? This is the biggest example yet of us going BPA in the draft. A huge shift from our thought process in 2007. Oh yeah...WE TRADED FOR KEVIN KOLB.

RB in the 2nd round confounded most of us, but who at QB or OT could we have gone after there? Ben Ijalan or Orlando Franklin at OT? Ryan Mallett and his issues at QB, Ricky Stanzi at QB? We really did not have a wealth of options there for us to pick a QB/OT outside of maybe the first round, and really how many of us are disappointed at the Peterson pick?

2012 - Riley Reiff, yes there is no doubt the argument there. It is again the Talent>Need argument. Same argument there with DeCastro. Osweiler or Russell Wilson were the next options at QB (We all know I loved Russ, but you have to look at system fit and Russ was not a good system fit here at all, and to adjust your entire offense for him puts a lot of stress on the rest of the offense around him, and then there is no guarantee he starts) We had Kolb on the roster going into his second year.

Bottom Line, we have not had the chance to draft an elite QB or even pick one up in FA or via a trade (Outside of Kolb) nor have we had the chance to make a big time pick on the offensive line. How can we begin to say that Whis has ignored QB and not drafted a QB early like he should have when in reality Whis has never actually had the chance to pull the trigger on an elite QB in the draft. He has never had the chance to pull the trigger on an elite OT in the draft outside of Levi Brown which he did do.

TL;DR - Why are we punishing Whis for not doing something he has never had the chance to do?
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 444
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Khodder.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperFlyTNT wrote:
Great write up Khodder.


Thanks, I mean I think we all know that OL and QB have been the two biggest archillies heels of this team over the past couple of seasons, but really what else could we have done in those situations. It really makes you think that getting the right QB at the right time is largely a matter of luck, as it was for Indy last year and as it was for them in 1998.

The Patriots finding Tom Brady in the 6th round. But seriously, the names the Patriots took before Tom in 2000; Antwan Harris, Jeff Mariott, Dave Stachelski, Greg Randall, JR Redmond, Adrian Klemm.

They did not beleive Tom was going to be what he was, they thought, maybe we can steal a solid backup here in the 6th. If they saw All-Pro in him they draft him with their first pick.
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SuperFlyTNT


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 444
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
SuperFlyTNT wrote:
Great write up Khodder.


Thanks, I mean I think we all know that OL and QB have been the two biggest archillies heels of this team over the past couple of seasons, but really what else could we have done in those situations. It really makes you think that getting the right QB at the right time is largely a matter of luck, as it was for Indy last year and as it was for them in 1998.

The Patriots finding Tom Brady in the 6th round. But seriously, the names the Patriots took before Tom in 2000; Antwan Harris, Jeff Mariott, Dave Stachelski, Greg Randall, JR Redmond, Adrian Klemm.

They did not beleive Tom was going to be what he was, they thought, maybe we can steal a solid backup here in the 6th. If they saw All-Pro in him they draft him with their first pick.


Yeah - getting that franchise QB is such a tough thing to do - definitely the hardest thing the personnel man has to do. That's why good coaching candidates would rather go to a place with that starting QB already there. Look at our starting QBs since the franchise moved to the valley pre-Kurt:

Josh McCown
Shaun King
John Navarre
Jeff Blake
Jake Plummer
Kent Graham
Stoney Case
Boomer Esiason
Dave Krieg
Jay Schroeder
Steve Buerlein
Jim McMahon
Chris Chandler
Timm Rosenbaugh
Tom Tupa
Stan Gelbaugh
Gary Hogeboom
Cliff Stoudt
Neil Lomax

Outside of Neil Lomax and a past his prime Boomer Esiason that's an ugly list over the span of 17 mostly lousy years (including Jake who wasn't a great pro QB).

Then you also have the fact that you want a guy you think you can win a super-bowl with. So teams like the Ravens are wondering about Joe Flacco and the Bears about Jay Cutler even though overall they've played much better than the QB's we've had over the past few years.

If Keim becomes the GM it'll be nice knowing you've got a guy who isn't distracted by coaching ultimately responsible for finding personnel - but the overall task, and especially getting the QB (if Kolb doesn't pan out), still won't be easy.
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Conquest8089


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2007:
5. Levi Brown OT Penn State
33. Alan Branch DT Michigan
69. Buster Davis LB Florida State
142. Steve Breaston WR Michigan
215. Ben Patrick TE Delaware

UDFA: C Lyle Sendlein

Signing Edgerrin James to a 4 Year 30.0 M deal the previous offseason, addressing the offensive line was critical. The Levi Brown selection was a Need Pick, and the Vikings selecting Adrian Peterson 2 picks later is a testament to the BPA Philosophy. Just the previous offseason the Vikings signed Chestor Taylor to a 4 Year 14.1 M Deal, but they selected the future HOF and the backfield never appeared crowded.

The regime has stuck with Levi Brown to this point despite his failure to live up to his 5th Overall Selection. The Week 16 26-20 victory over San Francisco moved Arizona from 3rd to 5th Overall, which meant Joe Thomas was off the board by their pick.

Many anticipated Alan Branch would be a top 15 selection and he was projected for the 3-4 nose position. Never understood this pick. Having selected Gabe Watson 107th overall the previous year, the two virtually identical players failed to materialize into quality starters.

The Lyle Sendlein UDFA signing was an underrated move that sured up the Center position for multiple years, including during the 2010 Super Bowl Run.

2008:
16. Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee State
50. Calais Campbell DE Miami
81. Early Doucet WR LSU
116. Kenny Iwebema DE Iowa
149. Tim Hightower RB Richmond
185. Chris Harrington LB Texas A&M
225. Brandon Keith OT Northern iowa

Coming off an 8-8 Season, Warner and Leinart were sacked 24 times. Upgrading a miserable secondary was priority one and Rodgers-Cromartie was a tremendous selection. While hindsight is 20-20, the team felt they'd adequately addressed the OL in the 2007 Draft and in the previous years FA process (Al Johnson & Mike Gandy). Reggie Wells appeared serviceable at Guard and Lutui fit the scheme.

2009:
31. Chris 'Beanie' Wells RB Ohio State
63. Cody Brown DE U Conn
95. Rashad Johnson S Alabama
131. Greg Toler CB St. Pauls (VA)
167. Herman Johnson OG LSU
204. Will Davis LB Illinois
240. LaRod Stephens-Howling RB Pittsburgh
254. Trevor Canfield OG Cincinnati

When Running Backs used to be valued, Wells never made sense for the team with his subpar receiving abilities and durability questions. I would have frankly at the time taking James Laurinaitis here, and he's had a productive career in St. Louis.

Coming off the Super Bowl Year, the Offensive Line didn't appear in shambles.

2010:
26. Dan Williams DT Tennessee
47. Daryl Washington LB TCU
88. Andre Roberts WR Citadel
130. O'Brien Schofield LB Wisconsin
155. John Skelton QB Fordham
201. Jerrick Calvin DB Troy State
233. Jim Dray TE Stanford

Essentially conceding Gabe Watson & Alan Branch are not starting Nose Tackles, Williams was selected. The Offensive Linemen taken behind him (Saffold, Zane Badles & Vlad Duccasse) were all reaches.


2011:
5. Patrick Peterson CB LSU
38. Ryan Williams RB Virginia Tech
69. Rob Housler TE Florida Atlantic
103. Sam Acho LB Texas
136. Anthony Sherman FB U Conn
171. Quan Sturdivant LB North Carolina
184. David Carter DT UCLA
249. DeMarco Sampson WR San Diego State

With Warner Retired and the QB position in shambles, this draft was unique in that it preceded the FA Process. Choosing Peterson over Gabbert was a surprise to many.

In Round 2, you must wonder if Graves & Whisenhunt had Kaepernick or Andy Dalton pegged as their longterm QB.

The 5 QBs were sacked 50 Times and pressure was constant. Can be partly attributed to poor QB play, holding onto the ball too long. The other issue was the loss of Anquan Boldin.

Alan Faneca was a bandaid solution at LG, and the team hoped he'd have the impact on Sendlein & Brown that he did on Mangold & Ferguson.

Also, Brandon Keith appeared to be coming into his own. An upgrade over Deuce Lutui could've been found, but the team has shown a propensity to allow guys to develop.

The Ryan Williams selection was the worst in recent history, by ANY TEAM! Have to wonder if they panicked with Kaepernick off the board, because this pick is a failure of due diligence. Williams' knee issues date back to HS, when he missed the final 3 games of his senior year. The Right knee issue actually sidelined him his first 6 games of his Sophmore High School season.

After Redshirting in 2008 at Tech, he failed his conditioning test in 2009. In 2010, he suffered a torn Right Hamstring and missed 4 Games. Orlando Franklin would have been a logical choice at 38.

2012:
13. Michael Floyd WR Notre Dame
80. Jamell Fleming CB Oklahoma
112. Bobby Massie OT Ole Miss
151. Senio Kelemete OG Washington
177. Justin Bethel CB Presbyterian
185. Ryan Lindley QB San Diego State
221. Nate Potter OT Boise State

Levi Brown was released and then resigned for 5 Years 30.0 M (12 M Guaranteed). They addressed the interior by signing Adam Snyder, who will likely be cut following the 2012 season.

Massie is another developmental tackle (Brandon Keith) thats a oversized waist bender that Russ Grimm will fail to turn into a quality starter. His feet are simply too slow.


The issue with the Cardinals is Whisenhunt should stay and Rod Graves should go. Russ Grimm also must be Fired. The offensive line system must change and value athleticism more than it currently does. But the Kolb trade was the surprise move, and he never fit Whisenhunt's system. Ken needs a chance to tandem with Jason Licht and find the longterm solution at the QB position. Ownership needs to act.
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JohnnyV


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff Khodder. I put something smaller together a while back just focusing on the oline and how the options were limited.

My biggest gripe hasn't really been draft day OTHER than the Ryan Williams pick. There were several quality options at other positions of need much bigger than RB. Terrible pick IMO.

The off season additions in free agency, specifically with the offense, has been the most concerning. Now is that Ken or is that Graves?

Who takes responsibility for the following...

Derek Andersen
Chansi Stuckey
Adam Snyder
Rex Hadnot
Todd Heap
Kevin Kolb

Our offensive personel in FA has been a disaster.
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