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Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 32186
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah we should have fired Knapp and either A) let someone else who ran a completely different offense call plays B) let someone else who has never called plays run the offense or C) give up on our whole offensive scheme in less than 4 games and completely change every aspect of our offense

Those would have been the best things to do.



Who's fault is it he hired a bunch of assistant coaches with no experience.
Allen didn't getting saddled with a bunch of coaches from the old regime. These are his hand-picked coaches.
I don't want to hear what was he supposed to do.
This is his mess he needs to fix it that's why he's HC.


And how should he have fixed it?
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah we should have fired Knapp and either A) let someone else who ran a completely different offense call plays B) let someone else who has never called plays run the offense or C) give up on our whole offensive scheme in less than 4 games and completely change every aspect of our offense

Those would have been the best things to do.



Who's fault is it he hired a bunch of assistant coaches with no experience.
Allen didn't getting saddled with a bunch of coaches from the old regime. These are his hand-picked coaches.
I don't want to hear what was he supposed to do.
This is his mess he needs to fix it that's why he's HC.


True but to be fair at the time he was picked up as HC ASmile who would come here? and BSmile who was left to coach the WCO?

Also first time coaches often have to go off advice they receive from people in the coaching tree and other coaches around the league. It has been well noted that Knapp was still highly regarding as an OC before the start of this season(Not my personal thought).


I will be a bit more concerned if we have options this off-season and he chooses not to excersise them. One thing we do know is the WCO is staying.


In my opinion they should keep both Alan and Knapp and the West Coast offense. Just get rid of zone blocking and get a new play caller.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2799
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah we should have fired Knapp and either A) let someone else who ran a completely different offense call plays B) let someone else who has never called plays run the offense or C) give up on our whole offensive scheme in less than 4 games and completely change every aspect of our offense

Those would have been the best things to do.



Who's fault is it he hired a bunch of assistant coaches with no experience.
Allen didn't getting saddled with a bunch of coaches from the old regime. These are his hand-picked coaches.
I don't want to hear what was he supposed to do.
This is his mess he needs to fix it that's why he's HC.


True but to be fair at the time he was picked up as HC ASmile who would come here? and BSmile who was left to coach the WCO?

Also first time coaches often have to go off advice they receive from people in the coaching tree and other coaches around the league. It has been well noted that Knapp was still highly regarding as an OC before the start of this season(Not my personal thought).


I will be a bit more concerned if we have options this off-season and he chooses not to excersise them. One thing we do know is the WCO is staying.


In my opinion they should keep both Alan and Knapp and the West Coast offense. Just get rid of zone blocking and get a new play caller.


Lol so what would Knapp do if he isn't calling plays?

Allen said that they would evaluate the coaches at the end of the year. Good move if you ask me. I mean our WRs can't run the right routes now, imagine how confused they'd be if we switched schemes in the middle of the season. If we dump knapp it should be in the offseason so our players can transition into it easier.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3622
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
bitty wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah we should have fired Knapp and either A) let someone else who ran a completely different offense call plays B) let someone else who has never called plays run the offense or C) give up on our whole offensive scheme in less than 4 games and completely change every aspect of our offense

Those would have been the best things to do.



Who's fault is it he hired a bunch of assistant coaches with no experience.
Allen didn't getting saddled with a bunch of coaches from the old regime. These are his hand-picked coaches.
I don't want to hear what was he supposed to do.
This is his mess he needs to fix it that's why he's HC.


True but to be fair at the time he was picked up as HC ASmile who would come here? and BSmile who was left to coach the WCO?

Also first time coaches often have to go off advice they receive from people in the coaching tree and other coaches around the league. It has been well noted that Knapp was still highly regarding as an OC before the start of this season(Not my personal thought).


I will be a bit more concerned if we have options this off-season and he chooses not to excersise them. One thing we do know is the WCO is staying.


In my opinion they should keep both Alan and Knapp and the West Coast offense. Just get rid of zone blocking and get a new play caller.


Lol so what would Knapp do if he isn't calling plays?

Allen said that they would evaluate the coaches at the end of the year. Good move if you ask me. I mean our WRs can't run the right routes now, imagine how confused they'd be if we switched schemes in the middle of the season. If we dump knapp it should be in the offseason so our players can transition into it easier.


A few OCs don't call plays. They have the plays given to them by the assistant coaches in the press box. They can see the whole field and see the tendencies of the defense. They have computers and can replay the last play to see what happens during a play.
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Chali21


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 2799
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
bitty wrote:
TiberiusRising wrote:
bitty wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Yeah we should have fired Knapp and either A) let someone else who ran a completely different offense call plays B) let someone else who has never called plays run the offense or C) give up on our whole offensive scheme in less than 4 games and completely change every aspect of our offense

Those would have been the best things to do.



Who's fault is it he hired a bunch of assistant coaches with no experience.
Allen didn't getting saddled with a bunch of coaches from the old regime. These are his hand-picked coaches.
I don't want to hear what was he supposed to do.
This is his mess he needs to fix it that's why he's HC.


True but to be fair at the time he was picked up as HC ASmile who would come here? and BSmile who was left to coach the WCO?

Also first time coaches often have to go off advice they receive from people in the coaching tree and other coaches around the league. It has been well noted that Knapp was still highly regarding as an OC before the start of this season(Not my personal thought).


I will be a bit more concerned if we have options this off-season and he chooses not to excersise them. One thing we do know is the WCO is staying.


In my opinion they should keep both Alan and Knapp and the West Coast offense. Just get rid of zone blocking and get a new play caller.


Lol so what would Knapp do if he isn't calling plays?

Allen said that they would evaluate the coaches at the end of the year. Good move if you ask me. I mean our WRs can't run the right routes now, imagine how confused they'd be if we switched schemes in the middle of the season. If we dump knapp it should be in the offseason so our players can transition into it easier.


A few OCs don't call plays. They have the plays given to them by the assistant coaches in the press box. They can see the whole field and see the tendencies of the defense. They have computers and can replay the last play to see what happens during a play.


Wow I never knew that. That's what Saunders did with Jackson right?
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14111
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bitty wrote:
early43 wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
BuckSavage wrote:
I dont see how people can argue for Dennis Allen to come back. I see nothing in him that he can lead us to a super bowl in the future. But I would like to hear what people think why he should keep his job

What do you think?

My opinion:

The truth is that Reggie hired a coach who wasn't ready to be a head coach in the NFL. He should be a Defensive Coordinator at this point and had a proven track record of success before becoming a head coach.


Really, the argument is not should Dennis Allen be given his jotters, rather, should we have hired him in the first place? After 10+ years of losing what this franchise really didn't need was a rookie HC.

However, maybe despite his inexperience he was the best candidate. How many Bill Cowher's or [insert other experienced HC candidate here] want to inherit the Raider roster placing their reputation on the line?

I think Dennis Allen has to be given time to turn this thing around, otherwise other coaches will see the Raiders job as a 'one year appointment'. You have to remember that DA didn't have much talent on the roster and the best talent we have is in the hands of Knapp, no high draft picks and not exactly a huge FA budget - not a recipe for success no matter the HC.

Most of our offensive woes are due to the OC - replace him with a good and imaginative OC and things improve.


Bingo.

We were doomed once Knapp was brought on board to call the plays. We knew since the off season that we would have to score points and let the offense carry the team in order to compete. The regression we have witnessed is laughable and it drives me crazy when Knapp/Allen blame it on the scheme change. Plenty of other teams switch up schemes and play books and still see better results than what we are getting.

Also, does anyone find it funny how when we see a little progression in the running game, Knapp comes out in the papers and makes a point to give us the " Well, were starting to see better results because we have spent some time in this offense and the players are starting to get it" speech??



Hiring Knapp was a big mistake. You have to question Allen's football knowledge if he thought that was a good move.
He compounded the mistake by giving Knapp free reign throughout the season. Knapp should've been stripped of his play calling duties few games into the season but Allen made excuses for him instead.
That shows me that he's in over head.


Should I question his football knowledge because Bitty told me too?

Should the all knowledgeable Bitty be the Raiders HC? Because we all know you would hire the GOAT OC. Just like you know Knapp was his first choice and just like you know a young inexperienced head coach can hire any oc in the world because everyone wants to work here and he knows everybody.

Hindsight is 20/20. Allen didn't have much time to hire somebody, and even though Knapp wasn't great in the past, he was never really this bad.

It was a rookie mistake, it happens, he'll evaluate it, learn and move on. Allen will be here next year, sorry to disappoint you.



If you don't understand the topic please don't reply to it.

No you should question his football knowledge because he hired OC who was strippers of his playcalling duties and fired his last three jobs.
That is not hindsight that is a fact.

If there was no other choice he should've never got rid of Saunders. He should've waited a year to implement his offense. Allen would've of had more pieces in place and a smoother transition.

As I have stated before I think Allen and whole coaching staff should be brought back next year but that doesn't excuse his mistakes.


Stop wasting your time. Some people in here won't ever blame anything Raider until it isn't Raider. Then they'll fire bigger shots than you ever did.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 9877
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bitty wrote:
early43 wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
BuckSavage wrote:
I dont see how people can argue for Dennis Allen to come back. I see nothing in him that he can lead us to a super bowl in the future. But I would like to hear what people think why he should keep his job

What do you think?

My opinion:

The truth is that Reggie hired a coach who wasn't ready to be a head coach in the NFL. He should be a Defensive Coordinator at this point and had a proven track record of success before becoming a head coach.


Really, the argument is not should Dennis Allen be given his jotters, rather, should we have hired him in the first place? After 10+ years of losing what this franchise really didn't need was a rookie HC.

However, maybe despite his inexperience he was the best candidate. How many Bill Cowher's or [insert other experienced HC candidate here] want to inherit the Raider roster placing their reputation on the line?

I think Dennis Allen has to be given time to turn this thing around, otherwise other coaches will see the Raiders job as a 'one year appointment'. You have to remember that DA didn't have much talent on the roster and the best talent we have is in the hands of Knapp, no high draft picks and not exactly a huge FA budget - not a recipe for success no matter the HC.

Most of our offensive woes are due to the OC - replace him with a good and imaginative OC and things improve.


Bingo.

We were doomed once Knapp was brought on board to call the plays. We knew since the off season that we would have to score points and let the offense carry the team in order to compete. The regression we have witnessed is laughable and it drives me crazy when Knapp/Allen blame it on the scheme change. Plenty of other teams switch up schemes and play books and still see better results than what we are getting.

Also, does anyone find it funny how when we see a little progression in the running game, Knapp comes out in the papers and makes a point to give us the " Well, were starting to see better results because we have spent some time in this offense and the players are starting to get it" speech??



Hiring Knapp was a big mistake. You have to question Allen's football knowledge if he thought that was a good move.
He compounded the mistake by giving Knapp free reign throughout the season. Knapp should've been stripped of his play calling duties few games into the season but Allen made excuses for him instead.
That shows me that he's in over head.


Should I question his football knowledge because Bitty told me too?

Should the all knowledgeable Bitty be the Raiders HC? Because we all know you would hire the GOAT OC. Just like you know Knapp was his first choice and just like you know a young inexperienced head coach can hire any oc in the world because everyone wants to work here and he knows everybody.

Hindsight is 20/20. Allen didn't have much time to hire somebody, and even though Knapp wasn't great in the past, he was never really this bad.

It was a rookie mistake, it happens, he'll evaluate it, learn and move on. Allen will be here next year, sorry to disappoint you.



If you don't understand the topic please don't reply to it.

No you should question his football knowledge because he hired OC who was strippers of his playcalling duties and fired his last three jobs.
That is not hindsight that is a fact.

If there was no other choice he should've never got rid of Saunders. He should've waited a year to implement his offense. Allen would've of had more pieces in place and a smoother transition.

As I have stated before I think Allen and whole coaching staff should be brought back next year but that doesn't excuse his mistakes.


Stop wasting your time. Some people in here won't ever blame anything Raider until it isn't Raider. Then they'll fire bigger shots than you ever did.


This is necessary...Sorry I don't agree with you Rolling Eyes

I didn't agree with hiring Knapp but I can understand why the move was made, sorry i can see two sides to an argument and not have to "question the mans intelligence" or insist that "he'll never succeed."

I've made it clear I want Knapp gone.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Make The Case for Dennis Allen to keep his job Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
bitty wrote:
early43 wrote:
Heart of Oak wrote:
BuckSavage wrote:
I dont see how people can argue for Dennis Allen to come back. I see nothing in him that he can lead us to a super bowl in the future. But I would like to hear what people think why he should keep his job

What do you think?

My opinion:

The truth is that Reggie hired a coach who wasn't ready to be a head coach in the NFL. He should be a Defensive Coordinator at this point and had a proven track record of success before becoming a head coach.


Really, the argument is not should Dennis Allen be given his jotters, rather, should we have hired him in the first place? After 10+ years of losing what this franchise really didn't need was a rookie HC.

However, maybe despite his inexperience he was the best candidate. How many Bill Cowher's or [insert other experienced HC candidate here] want to inherit the Raider roster placing their reputation on the line?

I think Dennis Allen has to be given time to turn this thing around, otherwise other coaches will see the Raiders job as a 'one year appointment'. You have to remember that DA didn't have much talent on the roster and the best talent we have is in the hands of Knapp, no high draft picks and not exactly a huge FA budget - not a recipe for success no matter the HC.

Most of our offensive woes are due to the OC - replace him with a good and imaginative OC and things improve.


Bingo.

We were doomed once Knapp was brought on board to call the plays. We knew since the off season that we would have to score points and let the offense carry the team in order to compete. The regression we have witnessed is laughable and it drives me crazy when Knapp/Allen blame it on the scheme change. Plenty of other teams switch up schemes and play books and still see better results than what we are getting.

Also, does anyone find it funny how when we see a little progression in the running game, Knapp comes out in the papers and makes a point to give us the " Well, were starting to see better results because we have spent some time in this offense and the players are starting to get it" speech??



Hiring Knapp was a big mistake. You have to question Allen's football knowledge if he thought that was a good move.
He compounded the mistake by giving Knapp free reign throughout the season. Knapp should've been stripped of his play calling duties few games into the season but Allen made excuses for him instead.
That shows me that he's in over head.


Should I question his football knowledge because Bitty told me too?

Should the all knowledgeable Bitty be the Raiders HC? Because we all know you would hire the GOAT OC. Just like you know Knapp was his first choice and just like you know a young inexperienced head coach can hire any oc in the world because everyone wants to work here and he knows everybody.

Hindsight is 20/20. Allen didn't have much time to hire somebody, and even though Knapp wasn't great in the past, he was never really this bad.

It was a rookie mistake, it happens, he'll evaluate it, learn and move on. Allen will be here next year, sorry to disappoint you.



If you don't understand the topic please don't reply to it.

No you should question his football knowledge because he hired OC who was strippers of his playcalling duties and fired his last three jobs.
That is not hindsight that is a fact.

If there was no other choice he should've never got rid of Saunders. He should've waited a year to implement his offense. Allen would've of had more pieces in place and a smoother transition.

As I have stated before I think Allen and whole coaching staff should be brought back next year but that doesn't excuse his mistakes.


Stop wasting your time. Some people in here won't ever blame anything Raider until it isn't Raider. Then they'll fire bigger shots than you ever did.


This is necessary...Sorry I don't agree with you Rolling Eyes

I didn't agree with hiring Knapp but I can understand why the move was made, sorry i can see two sides to an argument and not have to "question the mans intelligence" or insist that "he'll never succeed."

I've made it clear I want Knapp gone.


"People" can be you or not, it doesn't matter. That's just what is happening in here. Perfect example is Hue getting blamed for the same things Allen is getting a pass for. If it makes some kind of sense, i missed it.
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