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Ray Lewis Retires
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SteelProven


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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 11862
Location: Ramstein, Germany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hated Ray Lewis because he played for the Ravens. But as a football fan he was one of the greatest I've ever watched play.
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SteelFire


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 44
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One player who everybody would love if he was on your team, but hates because he plays for the enemy. Would have looked good in a Steelers uniform.
Great player imho. Plays the game the way it should be played. Smashmouth, Steeler style ball, the best at his position.
For those that haven't seen it, I'm sure most football fans have, you need to watch "Ray Lewis: A Football Life" on NFL Network. You get to see a total different side of Ray and you might actually respect the guy.
Some might hate Ray the person, but you can't knock Ray the football player.
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rollins


Joined: 19 Dec 2010
Posts: 643
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Seriously!! I bet many here feel Troy is the best Safety ever, huh? Rolling Eyes


Who the hell said anything about Troy?

Thats right...nobody...except you trying to make some kind of point.

Nice eye roll though.

Anyway....Ray is definitely one of the best defenders ever and possibly the greatest ILB ever. Definitely the best ILB of this generation.

Top 5 defender all time though? Ehh....he has a case, but Id say there are probably at least 10 who have better or just as good of an argument to be there.


Ok so can you give me 5 better than lewis? any position, this goes for anyone. I personally can't see it. Did you guys forget he was the centerpiece and most dominant player on the 2001 ravens which is 2nd best if not the best single season defense ever? I mean who are you gonna put up there above him?

I'll give you my quick top 5:
LT/Lewis tied for 1st
White
Sanders
Mean Joe
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9741
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollins wrote:

Ok so can you give me 5 better than lewis?


DE - Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Deacon Jones
DT - Joe Greene, Bob Lilly, Alan Page
LB - Lawrence Taylor, Jack Lambert
DB - Rod Woodson, Deion Sanders, Ronnie Lott

so t-12th, with Ronnie Lott.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 3658
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Seriously!! I bet many here feel Troy is the best Safety ever, huh? Rolling Eyes


Who the hell said anything about Troy?

Thats right...nobody...except you trying to make some kind of point.

Nice eye roll though.

Anyway....Ray is definitely one of the best defenders ever and possibly the greatest ILB ever. Definitely the best ILB of this generation.

Top 5 defender all time though? Ehh....he has a case, but Id say there are probably at least 10 who have better or just as good of an argument to be there.


Who the hell are YOU to question me Question I hope it is a nice eyeroll because it is from this site. I, myself, and me brought Troy into this thread. Tired of "homers" constantly knocking great players and making our average players into GOATs or allstars.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49040
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollins wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Seriously!! I bet many here feel Troy is the best Safety ever, huh? Rolling Eyes


Who the hell said anything about Troy?

Thats right...nobody...except you trying to make some kind of point.

Nice eye roll though.

Anyway....Ray is definitely one of the best defenders ever and possibly the greatest ILB ever. Definitely the best ILB of this generation.

Top 5 defender all time though? Ehh....he has a case, but Id say there are probably at least 10 who have better or just as good of an argument to be there.


Ok so can you give me 5 better than lewis? any position, this goes for anyone. I personally can't see it. Did you guys forget he was the centerpiece and most dominant player on the 2001 ravens which is 2nd best if not the best single season defense ever? I mean who are you gonna put up there above him?

I'll give you my quick top 5:
LT/Lewis tied for 1st
White
Sanders
Mean Joe


Off the top of my head...

LT
Reggie White
Bruce Smith
Rod Woodson
Derrick Thomas
- Butkus
Jack Lambert

And there are others that at least have a case such as Ronnie Lott, Mel Blount, Jack Ham, etc....

Ray Lewis is an amazing player and one of the best all time, but I dont agree he is easily top 5 or the best. I wouldnt argue much against people who had him in the top 5, but I dont believe he is.

Oh....and I disagree with Deion Sanders. Best pure cover corner ever, but an extremely one dimensional player.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9741
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Seriously!! I bet many here feel Troy is the best Safety ever, huh? Rolling Eyes


Who the hell said anything about Troy?

Thats right...nobody...except you trying to make some kind of point.

Nice eye roll though.

Anyway....Ray is definitely one of the best defenders ever and possibly the greatest ILB ever. Definitely the best ILB of this generation.

Top 5 defender all time though? Ehh....he has a case, but Id say there are probably at least 10 who have better or just as good of an argument to be there.


Who the hell are YOU to question me Question I hope it is a nice eyeroll because it is from this site. I, myself, and me brought Troy into this thread. Tired of "homers" constantly knocking great players and making our average players into GOATs or allstars.


are you trying to imply that Troy is average? If not, please let me know who you are referring to when "homers" are "making our average players into GOATs"
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9741
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:

Oh....and I disagree with Deion Sanders. Best pure cover corner ever, but an extremely one dimensional player.


return ability and TDs. That's why I include him and Rod Woodson.
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 3721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:

Oh....and I disagree with Deion Sanders. Best pure cover corner ever, but an extremely one dimensional player.


return ability and TDs. That's why I include him and Rod Woodson.


Willie Williams not on this list!! LOL scrub lists
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49040
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Seriously!! I bet many here feel Troy is the best Safety ever, huh? Rolling Eyes


Who the hell said anything about Troy?

Thats right...nobody...except you trying to make some kind of point.

Nice eye roll though.

Anyway....Ray is definitely one of the best defenders ever and possibly the greatest ILB ever. Definitely the best ILB of this generation.

Top 5 defender all time though? Ehh....he has a case, but Id say there are probably at least 10 who have better or just as good of an argument to be there.


Who the hell are YOU to question me Question I hope it is a nice eyeroll because it is from this site. I, myself, and me brought Troy into this thread. Tired of "homers" constantly knocking great players and making our average players into GOATs or allstars.


Who am I to question you?

Uhh...someone with enough common sense to see you are talking out your backside...thats who. Deal with it.

And thanks for proving MY point....no one mentioned him, and you had no point. Homerism has nothing to do with why most dont have him that high. In fact, there is probably only one all time Steeler that most of us would put ahead of Lewis, and it isnt Polamalu.

But keep rolling your eyes and making baseless comments. Its gotten you this far.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 3658
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
armsteeld wrote:
Seriously!! I bet many here feel Troy is the best Safety ever, huh? Rolling Eyes


Who the hell said anything about Troy?

Thats right...nobody...except you trying to make some kind of point.

Nice eye roll though.

Anyway....Ray is definitely one of the best defenders ever and possibly the greatest ILB ever. Definitely the best ILB of this generation.

Top 5 defender all time though? Ehh....he has a case, but Id say there are probably at least 10 who have better or just as good of an argument to be there.


Who the hell are YOU to question me Question I hope it is a nice eyeroll because it is from this site. I, myself, and me brought Troy into this thread. Tired of "homers" constantly knocking great players and making our average players into GOATs or allstars.


are you trying to imply that Troy is average? If not, please let me know who you are referring to when "homers" are "making our average players into GOATs"


Troy is an amazing player and I will pm you in order to avoid derailing the OPs thread. Pouncey is the a below average Center who gets by because he had a solid rookie season but has been less than average since. We can make another thread to discuss the strengths of our team, if you are interested.
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Bobikus


Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 8565
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much the majority of Steelers fans here think Pouncey is a bit overrated by the media/AP voters, while Troy at his peak was as good a safety as anyone.

Also as far as overall defensive player, from what I've seen of both on film, I like Ham over Lambert, and Lewis would be in the top 1-3 for non-edge rusher LBs, but between 6 and 12 or so for overall defensive players. Being an ILB hurts a little in that regard I guess.
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rollins


Joined: 19 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok a couple things here:

1st We have to have full disclosure here. Lets be easy with naming players we have not watched play. You cannot definitivley say that a player is top 5 overall if you have not watched them play a minimum of 5 full games. Thats even a bit low. If your goin off stats or hearsay their is huge problems with that. How many people here saw Bob Lilly, - Butkus, or Deacon Jones play? I've seen highlights and heard stories but I can say with any certanty that they were better than Ray Lewis. I saw Ray Lewis dominate this league for many years.

2nd Put in propsective the impact the players actually had. Ray Lewis was the unquestioned leader and best player of one of the top 2 or 3 defenses of all time. He lead a team to a SB, he has kept his defense among the best in the league over a 15 year span with a ton of overhaul of players. He impacted the game a lot more than some of these players that are being mentioned such as derrick thomas, who had a few dominant years but overall body of work was nowhere near that of Ray Lewis who has a SB and multiple DPOY awards.

3rd For those saying MLB lose some value becuase of the position, For the first half of his career and most of his prime years MLBs were possibly the most important defensive players as the running game was a lot more important before this became a passing league.

4th One of the points everyone here is missing Ray Lewis was the most feared man in the NFL for about 10 years. He won so many battles just becuase the opposing players were intimidated. He was a man among boys not many can say that in the NFL. For instance as great as Patrick Willis is right now, not many players are afraid of him.
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tenboots


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easily one of the best FOOTBALL PLAYERS to ever play the game. I hate the Ravens with a passion, but I have always respected Ray Lewis as the great player he truely is.

It wasn't just his talent and ability to read an offense, it was his leadership and motivational skills that were second to none. I can easily say the Ravens would never have been anywhere close to the successful franchise they are without Ray's ability to lift the play of his teammates.

The Steelers/Ravens rivalry isn't dead, but it has been dampened quite a bit with the retirements of Hines Ward and Ray Lewis.

Man I loved watching those games.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 9741
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
are you trying to imply that Troy is average? If not, please let me know who you are referring to when "homers" are "making our average players into GOATs"


Troy is an amazing player and I will pm you in order to avoid derailing the OPs thread. Pouncey is the a below average Center who gets by because he had a solid rookie season but has been less than average since. .


ok, Pouncey's overrated, but below average is a stretch.

rollins wrote:
How many people here saw Bob Lilly, - Butkus, or Deacon Jones play?


*raises hand*

yes, I'm old. shut up about it. Razz

that said, the "legend" of Ray Lewis has expanded far beyond what he brought to the field. In his prime, he was the best in the game, sure. But top 3 or top 5 of all time at any position? That's just a bit extreme for my tastes.
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