Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Reports: Raiders fire Knapp, Allen safe
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4444
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Statistically, sure. Anyway, the Raiders offense took a nosedive this season with basically the same players on that side of the ball. I know some of that has to be blamed on the learning curve for a new system but Knapp's resume certainly doesn't help his case. It was a terrible hire and i'm glad he's finally gone.


It took a nosedive due to an inferior running game which at the very least was partially due to the loss of Michael Bush, who almost ran for 1,000 yards last year.

Not saying you're wrong for wanting Knapp gone. But if people think the Raiders offensive problems begin with Greg Knapp they are severely overrating the Raiders' talent.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2510
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Statistically, sure. Anyway, the Raiders offense took a nosedive this season with basically the same players on that side of the ball. I know some of that has to be blamed on the learning curve for a new system but Knapp's resume certainly doesn't help his case. It was a terrible hire and i'm glad he's finally gone.


It took a nosedive due to an inferior running game which at the very least was partially due to the loss of Michael Bush, who almost ran for 1,000 yards last year.

Not saying you're wrong for wanting Knapp gone. But if people think the Raiders offensive problems begin with Greg Knapp they are severely overrating the Raiders' talent.

While it is obvious that not Knapp is the only problem, it's also pretty easy to see that this years troubles starts with him.

We have holes on the O, but as others already said this O was a lot better last year with Palmer from the coach, or with Jason Campbell who looked lost in Chicago this year.
The 2010 team was a lot better with check down Campbell...
_________________
WIN LOSE OR TIE...RAIDER FAN 'TIL I DIE!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11755
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Statistically, sure. Anyway, the Raiders offense took a nosedive this season with basically the same players on that side of the ball. I know some of that has to be blamed on the learning curve for a new system but Knapp's resume certainly doesn't help his case. It was a terrible hire and i'm glad he's finally gone.


It took a nosedive due to an inferior running game which at the very least was partially due to the loss of Michael Bush, who almost ran for 1,000 yards last year.

Not saying you're wrong for wanting Knapp gone. But if people think the Raiders offensive problems begin with Greg Knapp they are severely overrating the Raiders' talent.


No, really, Knapp was the biggest problem and it's clear as day.
_________________


PM sig requests.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14113
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Statistically, sure. Anyway, the Raiders offense took a nosedive this season with basically the same players on that side of the ball. I know some of that has to be blamed on the learning curve for a new system but Knapp's resume certainly doesn't help his case. It was a terrible hire and i'm glad he's finally gone.


It took a nosedive due to an inferior running game which at the very least was partially due to the loss of Michael Bush, who almost ran for 1,000 yards last year.

Not saying you're wrong for wanting Knapp gone. But if people think the Raiders offensive problems begin with Greg Knapp they are severely overrating the Raiders' talent.


The Raiders' offensive talent isn't anything great but the same talent was still able to produce a lot more in 2010 and 2011. And I really doubt it was due to Bush who averaged under 4 yards/carry when given an extended workload last year. McFadden's average dropped to 3.3 this season when it was over 5 the last 2 years. There's the main issue. McFadden can't run in a ZBS and Knapp doesn't know anything but the ZBS. It was destined to fail. Funny thing is Knapp was the OC in Dmac's first 2 years and it didn't work back then either. So if we keep both Dmac and the ZBS, i doubt we'll get much better results.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6905
Location: CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
Statistically, sure. Anyway, the Raiders offense took a nosedive this season with basically the same players on that side of the ball. I know some of that has to be blamed on the learning curve for a new system but Knapp's resume certainly doesn't help his case. It was a terrible hire and i'm glad he's finally gone.


It took a nosedive due to an inferior running game which at the very least was partially due to the loss of Michael Bush, who almost ran for 1,000 yards last year.

Not saying you're wrong for wanting Knapp gone. But if people think the Raiders offensive problems begin with Greg Knapp they are severely overrating the Raiders' talent.


lol Wait, what? Regardless of what you think about the talent, having an incompetent OC will always be where the problem begins. Greg Knapp was legitimately the worst and shouldn't have been hired to begin with.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4444
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
The Raiders' offensive talent isn't anything great but the same talent was still able to produce a lot more in 2010 and 2011. And I really doubt it was due to Bush who averaged under 4 yards/carry when given an extended workload last year. McFadden's average dropped to 3.3 this season when it was over 5 the last 2 years. There's the main issue. McFadden can't run in a ZBS and Knapp doesn't know anything but the ZBS. It was destined to fail. Funny thing is Knapp was the OC in Dmac's first 2 years and it didn't work back then either. So if we keep both Dmac and the ZBS, i doubt we'll get much better results.


Well here lies the problem(and that average still destroys McFadden's perfomance), you're blaming Knapp for McFadden's limitations which I wouldn't have a problem with if it weren't for the fact that McFadden can't finish a season without being on injured reserve and for that reason is not the guy to be building an offense around. The fact that McFadden isn't a good fit is barely relevant to me other than questioning why Knapp or the head coach didn't make the move to bench him which they should have done. Any coach who decides not to install a system because it doesn't fit with what an unreliable and injury prone player provides is an idiot. Ironically you guys are arguing Knapp is dumb for the opposite reason. Raiders management are dumb if they're still seriously thinking having McFadden as the #1 back for another season is acceptable in any way.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins


Last edited by AntiSuperstar on Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21278
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
The Raiders' offensive talent isn't anything great but the same talent was still able to produce a lot more in 2010 and 2011. And I really doubt it was due to Bush who averaged under 4 yards/carry when given an extended workload last year. McFadden's average dropped to 3.3 this season when it was over 5 the last 2 years. There's the main issue. McFadden can't run in a ZBS and Knapp doesn't know anything but the ZBS. It was destined to fail. Funny thing is Knapp was the OC in Dmac's first 2 years and it didn't work back then either. So if we keep both Dmac and the ZBS, i doubt we'll get much better results.


Well here lies the problem(and that average still destroys McFadden's perfomance), you're blaming Knapp for the McFadden's limitations which I wouldn't have a problem with if it weren't for the fact that McFadden can't finish a season without being on injured reserve and for that reason is not the guy to be building an offense around. The fact that McFadden isn't a good fit is barely relevant to me other than questioning why Knapp or the head coach didn't make the move to bench him which they should have done. Any coach who decides not to install a system because it doesn't fit with what an unreliable and injury prone player provides is an idiot. Ironically you guys are arguing Knapp is dumb for the opposite reason. Raiders management are dumb if they're still seriously thinking having McFadden as the #1 back for another season is acceptable in any way.


You act like the offense took off when McFadden was out. The oline and no running backs look very good behind the system. Our two best olineman from last year took a step back. All our wrs took steps back. Myers and Palmer was the only two who marginally improved under the system. All our offensive numbers took a huge nose dive. So yeah blame should start with Knapp. Also Allen for even hiring Knapp. Knapp is a QB coach at best in this league. He shouldnt be installing anything, and definitely shouldnt be calling plays.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 6905
Location: CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
The Raiders' offensive talent isn't anything great but the same talent was still able to produce a lot more in 2010 and 2011. And I really doubt it was due to Bush who averaged under 4 yards/carry when given an extended workload last year. McFadden's average dropped to 3.3 this season when it was over 5 the last 2 years. There's the main issue. McFadden can't run in a ZBS and Knapp doesn't know anything but the ZBS. It was destined to fail. Funny thing is Knapp was the OC in Dmac's first 2 years and it didn't work back then either. So if we keep both Dmac and the ZBS, i doubt we'll get much better results.


Well here lies the problem(and that average still destroys McFadden's perfomance), you're blaming Knapp for the McFadden's limitations which I wouldn't have a problem with if it weren't for the fact that McFadden can't finish a season without being on injured reserve and for that reason is not the guy to be building an offense around. The fact that McFadden isn't a good fit is barely relevant to me other than questioning why Knapp or the head coach didn't make the move to bench him which they should have done. Any coach who decides not to install a system because it doesn't fit with what an unreliable and injury prone player provides is an idiot. Ironically you guys are arguing Knapp is dumb for the opposite reason. Raiders management are dumb if they're still seriously thinking having McFadden as the #1 back for another season is acceptable in any way.


Simple question. Should Greg Knapp be an NFL OC?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4444
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
You act like the offense took off when McFadden was out.


He only wasn't around for 4 games. Confused Not a lot to go by.

dante9876 wrote:
The oline and no running backs look very good behind the system.


I thought Reece looked fairly competent, though for whatever reason they never gave him the ball that much. Stewart looked alright only in flashes.

I don't know what you expected from the Offensive Line. Cooper Carlisle has sucked for years, he was one of the worst players on the team last year. Then they went out and signed Mike Briesel, a guy who wasn't very good with the Texans to begin with, and Willie Smith, a Redskins cast-off. It shouldn't be any great shock that the O-Line didn't perform well. The talent level was worse and you had a guy moving to a different position as well.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21278
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
You act like the offense took off when McFadden was out.


He only wasn't around for 4 games. Confused Not a lot to go by.

dante9876 wrote:
The oline and no running backs look very good behind the system.


I thought Reece looked fairly competent, though for whatever reason they never gave him the ball that much. Stewart looked alright only in flashes.

I don't know what you expected from the Offensive Line. Cooper Carlisle has sucked for years, he was one of the worst players on the team last year. Then they went out and signed Mike Briesel, a guy who wasn't very good with the Texans to begin with, and Willie Smith, a Redskins cast-off. It shouldn't be any great shock that the O-Line didn't perform well. The talent level was worse and you had a guy moving to a different position as well.


Willie Smith was a backup. Cooper was on the oline last year. We change one starter which was suppose to be an upgrade and tthe whole oline fell apart. But I like to see you answer Darkness question. Should Knapp be an OC in this league.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4444
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
Willie Smith was a backup.


But he had to start 7 games, that's not a trivial difference from last year, especially as bad as he was those 7 games.

dante9876 wrote:
Cooper was on the oline last year. We change one starter which was suppose to be an upgrade and tthe whole oline fell apart.


Yeah "was suppose to be" is the right way to put it. In reality it was a downgrade. Besides, it's not as simple as merely changing one guy. Wisniewski played primarily Guard last year, so he had to change position. You had Willie Smith starting 7 games. Then you have the fact that both seasons the Raiders like to use a lot of 6 Offensive Lineman personnel and this season's 6th man Bergstrom wasn't even on the team last year. So it's fair to say there was a significant amount of change which was for the worse.

dante9876 wrote:
But I like to see you answer Darkness question. Should Knapp be an OC in this league.


Probably not but I would hesitate to say for sure since I don't watch all 16 Raiders games to have a strong enough opinion one way or the other. I'm quite confident that Knapp was not the reason for the O-Line playing badly however.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
91jmay


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 24307
Location: Wonderland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. ^

Really is that simple.
_________________
THE MAD STORK wrote:

1. Is Hayden going to be a bust? Sure looked like it last year IMO..But I give him a pass because he almost died…therefore I believe anyone who almost dies deserves a pass……………

A principle to live by..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 14113
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
The Raiders' offensive talent isn't anything great but the same talent was still able to produce a lot more in 2010 and 2011. And I really doubt it was due to Bush who averaged under 4 yards/carry when given an extended workload last year. McFadden's average dropped to 3.3 this season when it was over 5 the last 2 years. There's the main issue. McFadden can't run in a ZBS and Knapp doesn't know anything but the ZBS. It was destined to fail. Funny thing is Knapp was the OC in Dmac's first 2 years and it didn't work back then either. So if we keep both Dmac and the ZBS, i doubt we'll get much better results.


Well here lies the problem(and that average still destroys McFadden's perfomance), you're blaming Knapp for McFadden's limitations which I wouldn't have a problem with if it weren't for the fact that McFadden can't finish a season without being on injured reserve and for that reason is not the guy to be building an offense around. The fact that McFadden isn't a good fit is barely relevant to me other than questioning why Knapp or the head coach didn't make the move to bench him which they should have done. Any coach who decides not to install a system because it doesn't fit with what an unreliable and injury prone player provides is an idiot. Ironically you guys are arguing Knapp is dumb for the opposite reason. Raiders management are dumb if they're still seriously thinking having McFadden as the #1 back for another season is acceptable in any way.


My post wasn't meant to blame Knapp for Mcfadden's limitations, i was just explaining the reason why the running game regressed so much.
The problem with Knapp is his inability to put players in position to succeed, his ultra conservative approach (which "handcuffes" his own players, imo), his lack of creativity and his suspect play-calling.
As far as McFadden is concerned, i'm on the side thinking we should move on from him. I'm not against keeping the ZBS either. I'm just glad it won't be in Knapp's hands because history tells me it won't bring success.
_________________
Plush wrote:
Papa was a trolling stone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sandiegoraider1


Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 2126
Location: San Diego
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
dante9876 wrote:
Willie Smith was a backup.


But he had to start 7 games, that's not a trivial difference from last year, especially as bad as he was those 7 games.

dante9876 wrote:
Cooper was on the oline last year. We change one starter which was suppose to be an upgrade and tthe whole oline fell apart.


Yeah "was suppose to be" is the right way to put it. In reality it was a downgrade. Besides, it's not as simple as merely changing one guy. Wisniewski played primarily Guard last year, so he had to change position. You had Willie Smith starting 7 games. Then you have the fact that both seasons the Raiders like to use a lot of 6 Offensive Lineman personnel and this season's 6th man Bergstrom wasn't even on the team last year. So it's fair to say there was a significant amount of change which was for the worse.

dante9876 wrote:
But I like to see you answer Darkness question. Should Knapp be an OC in this league.


Probably not but I would hesitate to say for sure since I don't watch all 16 Raiders games to have a strong enough opinion one way or the other. I'm quite confident that Knapp was not the reason for the O-Line playing badly however.


Here just read this, this is a message from a falcons fan a few years ago when the raiders hired knapp the first time
Raiders fans -- You have NO CHANCE with Knapp

"Greetings Raiders fans. I come from a Falcons board, falconsroost dot com I and am actually an old raiders fan from way back.

I just want to say -- as someone familiar with what you are watching offensively these days, that your team really has NO CHANCE now that Greg Knapp has been elevated to offensive coordinator and play-caller. I know Walter is not a good talent, but Knapp spent 3 years in Atlanta and I know first-hand that he is about the most awful coach in football.

I will be short and leave it to you guys to observe for yourself:

1. Knapp basically believes he is coaching in 1984 -- a time when LB's were slow and the matchup of RB vs LB meant a great advantage for the offense. But this is not 1984. LBs cover and they tackle. There isn't 15-yds of YAC available for *passes short of the first down*.

2. Observe that most passes will be short of the first down -- as if YAC is just there for the taking like it was for Roger Craig and Ricky Watters back in the days of Walsh's niners.

3. Observe that unless the team is being blown out by 14+ points, there will be no sense of urgency to score. There will be no 3-wide sets. No 4-wide sets.

4. Your offense will also never see the following:
Bunch formations to confuse the defense.
Crossing routes to 'pick' defenders or create space. Expect your WRs to run the following 2 routes:
a. Run straight then stop
b. Run straight then keep running.

5. Your QBs will not be allowed to audible or otherwise adjust plays. There will be no "hurry-up" offense or -- heaven forbid -- no-huddle because Knapp calls the plays. All of them. Players cannot think. Only Knapp can think.

6. And will Knapp sit in a coaches box so he can see the defense and its tendencies from the best vantage point? No. because he must have the QB sequestured on the bench with him, talking in the QB's ear incessantly the entire game. Yes, and I do mean THE ENTIRE GAME. Think of the worst type of micro-management and annoying, overbearing "coaching" imaginable and you have Knappy.

In the end, you will see that Knapp neither knows how to score and for the most part is not even TRYING to score. He is just trying to get 4 yards (or 3 yards on 3rd and 4).

On any 3rd down of 8 or more yards, expect Knappy to concede the series. Expect a draw, or a screen. Do not expect a pass thrown for hte first down.

Most folks know Bill Walsh devised the WCO to fit the weak arm of a QB he had in Cincinnati years ago. so The Raiders have the big armed Russell. That means nothing to Knapp. He will destroy that kid's career before it ever gets started. You can see the results since Kiffen was fired and Knapp started calling the plays. Look at your point totals. Look at today's game against the Panthers -- your 6 points came from 2 great INTs by the defense. Against the Falcons, you still had the ridiculous DHall so the defense could not do anything.

With Knapp, you have no chance.

Don't flame me for saying it. I totally feel your pain and if you ever visit our site your will know how absolutely glad we all are that he is no longer weaving his "magic" in our town.

Good luck. Unfortunately, luck won't be enough until you get a new coordinator.

Believe me. I feel your pain. Your team has no chance."

Birdman X'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group