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Washington D.C. Major Wants Name Change for Was. Redskins
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixa37 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
nixa37 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
What's racist about Fighting Irish? I'm pretty sure they aren't basing the name on stereotypes about Irish people fighting a lot. Like Fighting Illini. They're Illini. And they are going to fight. They don't fight just because its what Illini do.

Are you serious? That's almost certainly what it was based on.

From the Notre Dame athletics site: "The term likely began as an abusive expression tauntingly directed toward the athletes from the small, private, Catholic institution."


Again, its the celebration of the spirit of a people. How does that equate to a derogatory term like "Redskin?"

So you are completely ignorant the history of the Irish in America. In no way did that term Fighting Irish start out as a celebration of the spirit of the people. It was a negative stereotype about them being ill-tempered and quick to fight. Whether it was originally directed towards ND in that spirit we can't know, but that is what the original idea of the fighting Irishmen is based on.


Again, you walk up to A MILLION Irish Americans and call them a Fighting Irish and they will say "Hell Yeah!" It isnt a derogatory term. It's a term used to celebrate the determination and steadfastness of the people. Even if it was derogatorily used at first, it was always well received and embraced by the irish. Hence the moniker we see today. The Irish took pride in that image and named themselves as such. The Native Americans didnt own the Redskins and didnt name the team.

Walk up to a million native americans and call them Redskins and what reaction will you likely get from many of them?
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Brodie


Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
nixa37 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
nixa37 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
What's racist about Fighting Irish? I'm pretty sure they aren't basing the name on stereotypes about Irish people fighting a lot. Like Fighting Illini. They're Illini. And they are going to fight. They don't fight just because its what Illini do.

Are you serious? That's almost certainly what it was based on.

From the Notre Dame athletics site: "The term likely began as an abusive expression tauntingly directed toward the athletes from the small, private, Catholic institution."


Again, its the celebration of the spirit of a people. How does that equate to a derogatory term like "Redskin?"

So you are completely ignorant the history of the Irish in America. In no way did that term Fighting Irish start out as a celebration of the spirit of the people. It was a negative stereotype about them being ill-tempered and quick to fight. Whether it was originally directed towards ND in that spirit we can't know, but that is what the original idea of the fighting Irishmen is based on.


Again, you walk up to A MILLION Irish Americans and call them a Fighting Irish and they will say "Hell Yeah!" It isnt a derogatory term. It's a term used to celebrate the determination and steadfastness of the people. Even if it was derogatorily used at first, it was always well received and embraced by the irish. Hence the moniker we see today. The Irish took pride in that image and named themselves as such. The Native Americans didnt own the Redskins and didnt name the team.

Walk up to a million native americans and call them Redskins and what reaction will you likely get from many of them?


Society has advanced yes. You will most likely get a negative reaction I agree with that. But would their reaction change if they knew the history behind the name? That it was in honor of their native american coach
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redskin is not an observation. Racists call Indians Redskins as an insult. It's not the same as saying white or black.
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daineraider wrote:
Just like when people call me white. I get so mad cuz really I'm mote of a peach color than white.

Seriously you over sensitive people what is going on. It's like your offended if an Indian isn't offended by redskin. Why should they be ashamed of their skin. I don't understand why everyone is so upset about it. Be proud of who you are and what color you are.


Try this exersize for the next week. Whenever you come across a black person, call them a blackskin. If they ask why, give them the explanation you just gave.
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nixa37


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
I'm irish. I was born a redhead. Freckle faced. All of it. My kids were born redheads too. I know irish. I know Irish history. And no matter how it is we got here, our history isnt anywhere close to the native americans here in the states. Nor were we marginalized like the native american was and still is.

You walk up to 10, 000 irish americans and call them a fighting irish and theyll say "Hell Yeah." You walk up to 10,000 native americans and call them redskins and what reaction do you think you would get. Give me your honest to god answer.

I'm not quite sure all of those Irish Americans would react quite as kindly as you seem to think. If you said it to me, I wouldn't necessarily be that mad, but my basic reaction would something along the lines of "what the hell...who are you and why are you calling me that"

I'll admit, the reaction from Native Americans wouldn't be as good. I really haven't said it would be. I also don't think it would be as bad as you seem to think, especially if it was said in the somewhat fraternal way you're probably imagining fighting irish being said.

Like I've said, I have no problem with the name being changed if that is really what a significant portion of the Native American population wants, but the polls I've seen show it being a relatively small minority. I'm sure you could also find a relatively small (though certainly smaller, unless they just don't like ND) portion of Irish Americans would would want ND to change their name. I don't really think the Redskins should be forced to change their name, a name that has built up a ton of brand value over the decades, just because some people with no ties to the Native American community think that those people find it offensive without ever talking to them.
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El ramster


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well this is escalating.

Laughing

I sure do hope that they change their name. For the sake that this no longer will be a issue. Btw check this out!



Dhalls bro.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I am looking at the Wikipedia page 'List of ethnic slurs.' It's right there. Redskin.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Redskin is not an observation. Racists call Indians Redskins as an insult. It's not the same as saying white or black.

Not necessarily true. There has been a negative cultural stigma attached to pigeonholing people by the color of their skin, but...

Quote:
Four colors are also used to indicate various things and different Indian nations used different colors. There are many interpretations that exist today. For example, the Lakota people have the four colors: yellow, red, black, and white. Yellow is in the East; red is in the South; black is in the West; and white is in the North. Variations of this were also used, such as: red in the East; yellow in the South; black in the West; and white in the North.

These colors have some very significant meanings behind them. Amongst some indigenous nations, color symbolizes the aspects of a human being. The Lakota people say that these four colors represent the four original colors of man red, yellow, black, and white. They symbolize the human family as it once was.

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Brodie


Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

El ramster wrote:
well this is escalating.

Laughing

I sure do hope that they change their name. For the sake that this no longer will be a issue. Btw check this out!



Dhalls bro.


#MindBlown


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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 30078
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brodie wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
nixa37 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
nixa37 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
What's racist about Fighting Irish? I'm pretty sure they aren't basing the name on stereotypes about Irish people fighting a lot. Like Fighting Illini. They're Illini. And they are going to fight. They don't fight just because its what Illini do.

Are you serious? That's almost certainly what it was based on.

From the Notre Dame athletics site: "The term likely began as an abusive expression tauntingly directed toward the athletes from the small, private, Catholic institution."


Again, its the celebration of the spirit of a people. How does that equate to a derogatory term like "Redskin?"

So you are completely ignorant the history of the Irish in America. In no way did that term Fighting Irish start out as a celebration of the spirit of the people. It was a negative stereotype about them being ill-tempered and quick to fight. Whether it was originally directed towards ND in that spirit we can't know, but that is what the original idea of the fighting Irishmen is based on.


Again, you walk up to A MILLION Irish Americans and call them a Fighting Irish and they will say "Hell Yeah!" It isnt a derogatory term. It's a term used to celebrate the determination and steadfastness of the people. Even if it was derogatorily used at first, it was always well received and embraced by the irish. Hence the moniker we see today. The Irish took pride in that image and named themselves as such. The Native Americans didnt own the Redskins and didnt name the team.

Walk up to a million native americans and call them Redskins and what reaction will you likely get from many of them?


Society has advanced yes. You will most likely get a negative reaction I agree with that. But would their reaction change if they knew the history behind the name? That it was in honor of their native american coach


I am pretty sure most native americans know the history behind the term "redskin." Probably better than the rest of us. And if that is "in honor" of anyone, lets all think of some names for the Dodgers, in honor of Jackie Robinson. Who wants to start?
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixa37 wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
I'm irish. I was born a redhead. Freckle faced. All of it. My kids were born redheads too. I know irish. I know Irish history. And no matter how it is we got here, our history isnt anywhere close to the native americans here in the states. Nor were we marginalized like the native american was and still is.

You walk up to 10, 000 irish americans and call them a fighting irish and theyll say "Hell Yeah." You walk up to 10,000 native americans and call them redskins and what reaction do you think you would get. Give me your honest to god answer.

I'm not quite sure all of those Irish Americans would react quite as kindly as you seem to think. If you said it to me, I wouldn't necessarily be that mad, but my basic reaction would something along the lines of "what the hell...who are you and why are you calling me that"

I'll admit, the reaction from Native Americans wouldn't be as good. I really haven't said it would be. I also don't think it would be as bad as you seem to think, especially if it was said in the somewhat fraternal way you're probably imagining fighting irish being said.

Like I've said, I have no problem with the name being changed if that is really what a significant portion of the Native American population wants, but the polls I've seen show it being a relatively small minority. I'm sure you could also find a relatively small (though certainly smaller, unless they just don't like ND) portion of Irish Americans would would want ND to change their name. I don't really think the Redskins should be forced to change their name, a name that has built up a ton of brand value over the decades, just because some people with no ties to the Native American community think that those people find it offensive without ever talking to them.


Why would you think nobody has talked to them? I had plenty of native friends in the military. And they were pretty offended by it. Thats how my opinion was shaped. Those were my friends. So is my opinion on the matter validated now?
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broncosfan07


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely support a change, I don't think they need a completely new name, the Skins would work fine just change the logo a bit.
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J Pep 4 Step


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Yeah I am looking at the Wikipedia page 'List of ethnic slurs.' It's right there. Redskin.


What about fighting irish?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
I am pretty sure most native americans know the history behind the term "redskin." Probably better than the rest of us. And if that is "in honor" of anyone, lets all think of some names for the Dodgers, in honor of Jackie Robinson. Who wants to start?

Again, you're attaching the historical context of the name as given to them by European settlers. Ancient Shamanism suggests that a number of tribes identified as "red" prior to European settlement, and I believe in some cases prior to the settlement of those tribes in the Americas.

I think the issue is more a matter of sensitivity to the stigma of being "depersonalized" (for lack of a better word) down to being identified by skin color.

And to be honest, I realize this topic may be difficult to discuss without getting into racially sensitive arguments, but if folks can't manage to do it, I'm going to have to lock it.
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nixa37


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
I am pretty sure most native americans know the history behind the term "redskin." Probably better than the rest of us. And if that is "in honor" of anyone, lets all think of some names for the Dodgers, in honor of Jackie Robinson. Who wants to start?

The history of the franchise becoming known as the Redskins, not of the term itself (since as you established, you don't think the origins of a term matter). The team franchise renamed itself in the honor of it's Native American coach according the the USA Today link I posted earlier.

Quote:
The franchise began in Boston as the Braves but was purchased in 1932 by George Preston Marshall, who changed the name to honor head coach William "Lone Star" Dietz, an American Indian.
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