Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Doctors need more power on NFL sidelines
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 60863
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Doctors need more power on NFL sidelines Reply with quote

It's become evident to me over the past few seasons as concussions have become more of a focal point in the NFL and injuries have spiked because of the violent hits in the game that doctors need more control on the sidelines.

Dr James Andrews was paid to be on the sidelines by Dan Snyder to be the angel on Snyder's rookie franchise qbs shoulders but Dr James Andrews was not allowed to properly do his job. His job didn't seem to be to be the final say on Rg3 playing but to evaluate whatever Mike Shanahan and Robert Griffin III wanted him to evaluate, NOT what the doctor himself thought he should evaluate.

What I mean by this is if RG3 said he was ok and felt ok and coach Shanahan got caught up in the superman hype that was RG3 for 14 of 17 games of the NFL season then Dr James Andrews had nothing to evaluate. Things such as this have to change with the NFL if they want to get serious about player safety. I know us fans don't want to hear it, players don't want to hear it, coaches don't want to hear it and especially owners don't want to hear it- but it's true!

We have to sit back and put doctors thoughts and doctors evaluations more into the NFL during the game! Not just after the fact, after the game but during the game on the sidelines and especially in decision making on whether the players should go back into the game or not. It has become evident to me the final say on for rg3 to play was never really Dr James Andrews, it was Rg3's pleading to the person who made the decision was the coach and person with final say on player personnel decisions Mike Shanahan. Dr James Andrews was on the sidelines, but overuled by somone. I'm refering to at one point after rg3 tweaked his knee on the second drive the game. The training staff took RG3 into a shed behind the bench which Lavar Arrington refered to as a bathroom and Dr Andrews followed them to the door but the door was shut on him. I don't know who said no to him, but one of the three men that went into that shed did. It was either of the two training staff members or RG3.

How much power does one man need? Not only does Shanahan have control over all the coaching decisions and final player acquisition, evaluation and roster building but apparently Mike Shanahan can play doctor and override their thoughts as well.

This isn't just about Mike Shanahan, this goes for every sideline in the NFL. I've seen millions of times when players have been knocked out in the past two years where they went back in the game. The one I vividly remember was when James Harrison laid out Colt McCoy who needed help to get up and get off the field because he had a concussion but his coach and Colt later decided it was ok to go back in the game.

This isn't right. There needs to be independent doctors out there, doctors not associated with the team, not paid for by the owner that have the final say after a player is injured and the independent doctor should determine if a player should or should not go back in the game. I said this after rg3 got the concussion vs the falcons and was allowed to play the following week vs Minnesota. The NFL needs better protocol on this, players need to do a better job protecting themselves, owners, coaches and fans need to be more worried about players long term health and if they can finish a season rather than how quickly the player can get back into the game.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
óDays until: NFL Draft 28; Training camp 94
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
DontTazeMeBro


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 24509
Location: 321
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disagree. I don't want some 3rd party telling me I have to keep important players out of a playoff game. If a player is willing to risk his long term health for a Super Bowl ring I don't think that's wrong or anyone should tell him he can't.
_________________


Free Ray Rice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 6892
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Doctors need more power on NFL sidelines Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
It's become evident to me over the past few seasons as concussions have become more of a focal point in the NFL and injuries have spiked because of the violent hits in the game that doctors need more control on the sidelines.

Dr James Andrews was paid to be on the sidelines by Dan Snyder to be the angel on Snyder's rookie franchise qbs shoulders but Dr James Andrews was not allowed to properly do his job. His job didn't seem to be to be the final say on Rg3 playing but to evaluate whatever Mike Shanahan and Robert Griffin III wanted him to evaluate, NOT what the doctor himself thought he should evaluate.

What I mean by this is if RG3 said he was ok and felt ok and coach Shanahan got caught up in the superman hype that was RG3 for 14 of 17 games of the NFL season then Dr James Andrews had nothing to evaluate. Things such as this have to change with the NFL if they want to get serious about player safety. I know us fans don't want to hear it, players don't want to hear it, coaches don't want to hear it and especially owners don't want to hear it- but it's true!

We have to sit back and put doctors thoughts and doctors evaluations more into the NFL during the game! Not just after the fact, after the game but during the game on the sidelines and especially in decision making on whether the players should go back into the game or not. It has become evident to me the final say on for rg3 to play was never really Dr James Andrews, it was Rg3's pleading to the person who made the decision was the coach and person with final say on player personnel decisions Mike Shanahan. Dr James Andrews was on the sidelines, but overuled by somone. I'm refering to at one point after rg3 tweaked his knee on the second drive the game. The training staff took RG3 into a shed behind the bench which Lavar Arrington refered to as a bathroom and Dr Andrews followed them to the door but the door was shut on him. I don't know who said no to him, but one of the three men that went into that shed did. It was either of the two training staff members or RG3.

How much power does one man need? Not only does Shanahan have control over all the coaching decisions and final player acquisition, evaluation and roster building but apparently Mike Shanahan can play doctor and override their thoughts as well.

This isn't just about Mike Shanahan, this goes for every sideline in the NFL. I've seen millions of times when players have been knocked out in the past two years where they went back in the game. The one I vividly remember was when James Harrison laid out Colt McCoy who needed help to get up and get off the field because he had a concussion but his coach and Colt later decided it was ok to go back in the game.

This isn't right. There needs to be independent doctors out there, doctors not associated with the team, not paid for by the owner that have the final say after a player is injured and the independent doctor should determine if a player should or should not go back in the game. I said this after rg3 got the concussion vs the falcons and was allowed to play the following week vs Minnesota. The NFL needs better protocol on this, players need to do a better job protecting themselves, owners, coaches and fans need to be more worried about players long term health and if they can finish a season rather than how quickly the player can get back into the game.


All of what you wrote is true. It is a bit naive as to how the league works, but it ought to. Betcha big college games are every bit as bad.

Watch Oliver Stone's movie Any Given Sunday. He based it on "You're OK, It's Just A Bruise: A Doctor's Sideline Secrets About Pro Football's Most Outrageous Team" by Rob Huizenga.

Although the book is based on the 1980's LA Raiders, it is just as true.

BTW, Huizenga organized the NFL Physicians Association.
_________________
"I have to keep playing so people over 40 will have somebody to root for on Sunday afternoons." George Blanda who played until he was 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2547
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What?!?!?

This is what I'm hearing right now... Blame the doctors. Blame the media. Blame social media. Blame the fans. Blame society and culture... Blame the Qb! It's everybody's fault!!!!!

No!

Blame the coach. The man makes 7 million dollars. He's the vice president. He controls who plays and who sits. He's the one that created the culture of the Washington team. Stop it with the blame everyone crap. It's not societies fault - it's a game. It's that aspect Shanny doesn't get.

That's why his coaching career is littered with bad sportsmanship, fraud, cheating, bad personnel decisions, sending out players that are injured, salary cap violations, being overly heavy handed with control issues, player using PEDs like candy... Of course, he also has 2 championships and that's why Washington didn't give a lick about the bad stuff.

And this new blame the doctor nonsense - come on! This is a tough sport for tough guys. It's also a sport where if you sit like Alex Smith, 2 weeks later you're out a starting job.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 20293
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, there has been rumblings that maybe they should implement protocols for other injuries similar to what they do for consussions with 3rd party doctors.

Secondly -- there is 0 reason why Dr. James Andrews should have been any "final voice" on whether or not RG3 should return to the game. The Redskins brought him there on their own dollar, to give a better evaluation when asked to do so. He wasn't there because he had any sort of specific job to do, he was there because the Redskins wanted him there. If the Redskins wanted him to hand out cups of Gatorade instead, that would be up to them. But to say that Dr. Andrews should have had any definitive say as to whether a player should return to the game other than a simple opinion of his, is ludicrous. He's there for his professional opinion, not as an overruling authority. If he advises the team not to put RG3 back in the game (which I still have yet to see a single credible link that says he did), he wouldn't have gone back in.
_________________


^ I don't quite get why simon made this my losing sig about the Chiefs. I don't think I've made a single post in this forum.

XBL GT: kanxalanx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 60863
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunderhead wrote:
What?!?!?

This is what I'm hearing right now... Blame the doctors. Blame the media. Blame social media. Blame the fans. Blame society and culture... Blame the Qb! It's everybody's fault!!!!!

No!

Blame the coach. The man makes 7 million dollars. He's the vice president. He controls who plays and who sits. He's the one that created the culture of the Washington team. Stop it with the blame everyone crap. It's not societies fault - it's a game. It's that aspect Shanny doesn't get.

That's why his coaching career is littered with bad sportsmanship, fraud, cheating, bad personnel decisions, sending out players that are injured, salary cap violations, being overly heavy handed with control issues, player using PEDs like candy... Of course, he also has 2 championships and that's why Washington didn't give a lick about the bad stuff.

And this new blame the doctor nonsense - come on! This is a tough sport for tough guys. It's also a sport where if you sit like Alex Smith, 2 weeks later you're out a starting job.
i think you need to re-read what i wrote. I didn't blame dr James Andrews. My point was they had him on the sidelines but they really never even used his expertise. The coach/rg3/team trainers didnt go to him till rg3 was thriving in pain because he tore a knee ligament that he had sprained a month before and he needed surgery to fix an acl tear from 09 that was done so rg3 could get back ASAP and not for his long term playing career. Only when rg3 couldn't get up did the consult dr James Andrews.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
óDays until: NFL Draft 28; Training camp 94
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 60863
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
First off, there has been rumblings that maybe they should implement protocols for other injuries similar to what they do for consussions with 3rd party doctors.

Secondly -- there is 0 reason why Dr. James Andrews should have been any "final voice" on whether or not RG3 should return to the game. The Redskins brought him there on their own dollar, to give a better evaluation when asked to do so. He wasn't there because he had any sort of specific job to do, he was there because the Redskins wanted him there. If the Redskins wanted him to hand out cups of Gatorade instead, that would be up to them. But to say that Dr. Andrews should have had any definitive say as to whether a player should return to the game other than a simple opinion of his, is ludicrous. He's there for his professional opinion, not as an overruling authority. If he advises the team not to put RG3 back in the game (which I still have yet to see a single credible link that says he did), he wouldn't have gone back in.
well I'm saying in the future the NFL needs to have people such as James Andrews on the field and the doctor should have final say in the future if the league is going to be serious about players safety and long term healthy. Rg3 and mike Shanahan have no clue how healthy he is. Trainers and team doctors on the sodelines are paid by the owners and their goal to get the player back on the field ASAP to make $$ of them.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md
Quote:
óDays until: NFL Draft 28; Training camp 94
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
RazorStar


Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1203
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blame the Redskins for not winning. This wouldn't be a story if they won, even if RG3 had to get his leg amputated or something impossible like that.

I personally think it's DeAngelo Hall's fault.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 20293
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
First off, there has been rumblings that maybe they should implement protocols for other injuries similar to what they do for consussions with 3rd party doctors.

Secondly -- there is 0 reason why Dr. James Andrews should have been any "final voice" on whether or not RG3 should return to the game. The Redskins brought him there on their own dollar, to give a better evaluation when asked to do so. He wasn't there because he had any sort of specific job to do, he was there because the Redskins wanted him there. If the Redskins wanted him to hand out cups of Gatorade instead, that would be up to them. But to say that Dr. Andrews should have had any definitive say as to whether a player should return to the game other than a simple opinion of his, is ludicrous. He's there for his professional opinion, not as an overruling authority. If he advises the team not to put RG3 back in the game (which I still have yet to see a single credible link that says he did), he wouldn't have gone back in.
well I'm saying in the future the NFL needs to have people such as James Andrews on the field and the doctor should have final say in the future if the league is going to be serious about players safety and long term healthy. Rg3 and mike Shanahan have no clue how healthy he is. Trainers and team doctors on the sodelines are paid by the owners and their goal to get the player back on the field ASAP to make $$ of them.


And there's rumblings that they may go towards that. But rest assured, you sure as hell aren't going to see guys with the pedigree of Dr. James Andrews on the sidelines.

And like I've said, Dr. Andrews was looking at RG3 on the sideline and in that little room off of it -- it showed him going right in there with RG3. And you can bet if Dr. Andrews said "I don't think he should go back in the game", that RG3 would have found a nice spot on the bench to watch the rest of the game. All of this speculation that Dr. Andrews either didn't have a say, or said no and Shanahan overruled it is absolute hogwash and speculation until there's a credible source that confirms it. But if Dr. Andrews does his evaluation (which, btw, is reliant largely upon RG3's responses to his questions) and determines he hasn't further made anything worse than when RG3 started the game, and clears him to return, then there's really nothing that can be done further.
_________________


^ I don't quite get why simon made this my losing sig about the Chiefs. I don't think I've made a single post in this forum.

XBL GT: kanxalanx
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2547
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
.
i think you need to re-read what i wrote. I didn't blame dr James Andrews. My point was they had him on the sidelines but they really never even used his expertise. The coach/rg3/team trainers didnt go to him till rg3 was thriving in pain because he tore a knee ligament that he had sprained a month before and he needed surgery to fix an acl tear from 09 that was done so rg3 could get back ASAP and not for his long term playing career. Only when rg3 couldn't get up did the consult dr James Andrews.[/quote]

But you ARE looking for someone to blame. Its certainly implicit. They HAD talked to the doctor, they knew the risks. The doctor had certainly told them what could happen. He talked to USA TODAY, obviously he had made his opinion pretty clear to all and if he hadn't, Shanny probably got the clipping...

Every team in the league wants a QB with the heart of RGIII. All fans want that mentality in their star player. But Washington and every team in the league has a guy already who makes the decision. That's the Head Coach. It's the HC that knows whether his player can perform with an injury. Shanny is paid 7 million dollars for his expertise. He was made vice president for his expertise.

Shanny failed, we don't need a doctor to tell us that. There was no saying that RGIII was going to tear his ACL because his LCL was sprained. He got injured due to the plays being called - how would a doctor know how the player was going to be utilized? Does the Dr. get to make play calls too? Should the Dr. have said, "Yeah, RGIII can play, but only if you use him as a pocket passer...".

And what's too injured to play? If a Qb has a broken left hard or separated left shoulder, but he's right handed can he play? Where do you draw the line that a coach can't?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 8179
Location: MD
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hesitate with instant reaction such as this. Maybe you're right, but I'd let the emotions cool a bit. Bad things can happen in any arena when you instantly start anointing someone or some group with more funding/responsibilities/power in response to a tragedy/crisis.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
redsoxsuck05


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 7773
Location: LI
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Disagree. I don't want some 3rd party telling me I have to keep important players out of a playoff game. If a player is willing to risk his long term health for a Super Bowl ring I don't think that's wrong or anyone should tell him he can't.


Depends for me.

Players shouldn't be able to go back into a game after suffering a concussion. At least the NFL made some changes with neutral trainer on the sidelines to prevent another McCoy fiasco.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 6892
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The business of football is all about calculated risks. Owners are aggressive risk takers investing in entertainment sports. They are risking their $$ against their instincts and the hazards of the game.

Players are risking their health that their skills are so good they can survive the hazards to achieve fame and $$ it brings.

Doctors take an oath to do no harm. Temporizing that in the heat of a game is where business and sports meet medicine.

Good luck finding the spot of the foul. Cool
_________________
"I have to keep playing so people over 40 will have somebody to root for on Sunday afternoons." George Blanda who played until he was 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vike daddy


Most Valuable Poster (2nd Ballot)

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 71383
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whether it's right or wrong, doctors exist in a world of liability and medical malpractice staring at them every day.

you would see more and more players pulled from games if they had the final say.
_________________


Webmaster wrote:
Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TommyC376


Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 10036
Location: Capital Wasteland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want Dr.s to have more say on the sidelines then why have Athletic Trainers?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL General All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group